I'm willing to build 2V single hotsides - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 06:27 AM Thread Starter
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I'm willing to build 2V single hotsides (updated)

I'm trying to see what kind of demand there is if i was to build a 2v hotside for the MN12 platform. It will take me alot of time but I'm not even going to go down the road if no ones interested.

The route I have picked out will
-allow you to bolt on a single turbo possibly a T-70/MP-70 turbo under the hood
-will bolt up to the the stock manifolds or any oem replacement manifold
-2.5' dual Y'd int oa single 2.5" all the way to the flange
-aluminized mandrel bent with mig welds
-no relocation of major items
-ps,ac friendly no need to custom bend ac lines
-oem radiator and fan should be fine
-minimal cutting of the chassis
-easy bolt on design
-abs ok
-works with oem k member

let me know if anyone would be interested i would be taking some time on the kit to make sure I build a great quality hotside.

My welding is getting better all the time im working on it but my custom turbo kits have stood up so far just fine

2x95 cougars to the scapper
97 F250 psd 4x4 dd twin charged
48 Gmc Detroit diesel 453t twin sticked
45 Chevy 451 detroit twin sticked
51 Mack A51T restoration

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post #2 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 07:09 PM
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chassis cutting???

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post #3 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 08:15 PM
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id be interested... depending on the cost... and +1 on the chassis cutting question..

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post #4 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-17-2008, 05:10 AM Thread Starter
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Minor cutting OR i can reconsider the location of the turbo. The only cutting with the plan i have so far is a 3" hole on the fender area next to the airbox. the turbo will inhale thru this hole or exhale depending on howi plan to set this up. As we all know the mod motor in an mn12 is cram packed so its going to take some work to figure it out. the hotside will be a single piece all the way from the flanges to the Y to the turbo flange with a bracket that will bolt the turbo flange to the timing cover.

Or without cutting i may figure out a way to get the turbo between the radiator and motor however the oem fan will have to be ditched for a push thru fan in front of the condensor or a low profile pull thru fan however then your messing with the cooling system something id like to keep in its oem state to keep the cost down and the hole bolt on and go thing more realistic

A 3" hole would not jeopardise or i should say shouldnt weaken the chassis in any way but its something to look into before giving the ok to cut. I will however be taking some time to come up with ideas to keep the turbo where the airbox is yet without the cutting. The main issue is fitting a sizeable turbo needed when you have 2 inlets and 2 outlets between the fender and ac lines. Probelm#2 is if you face the turbo inlet towards the fender (which i may be able to fit with a snuby cone filter w/o cutting) the oil return will have to drop down the airbox hole and under the frame rail which would cause drainback problems. if you hung the compressor side over theframe rail pointed towards the driver side then you can keep the drain line inside the engine compartment. The possibly maybe have the exhaust exit thru the hole in the fender to make a sharp turn to go up over the tire tucked high and hidden and wrapped to protect the paint on the fender. these are just ideas that im going to put to work and see what i can come up with.

2x95 cougars to the scapper
97 F250 psd 4x4 dd twin charged
48 Gmc Detroit diesel 453t twin sticked
45 Chevy 451 detroit twin sticked
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post #5 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
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well its going to take some time. The route i would like to use may be out of the question. i had planed to run the driver side DP under the bell housing and the passenger side to Y into that pipe as they 90 around the spot behind the K member to snake its way under the lca and then up the airbox hole to the flange. it would clear the tire completely and allow no relocation of cooling sys,ac,ps,batt,fan,electric...yet ground clearance would lose about 2" unlesss i used oval piping which ups the price and then i would still lose about an 1" and i rather have notyhing haging below the frame to easily get damaged? So im going to keep trying theres gota be a way?

2x95 cougars to the scapper
97 F250 psd 4x4 dd twin charged
48 Gmc Detroit diesel 453t twin sticked
45 Chevy 451 detroit twin sticked
51 Mack A51T restoration
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post #6 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 03:10 PM
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why don't you build one first, sort it all out, then come back with an offer to sell something.

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rest in peace JL
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post #7 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 03:37 PM Thread Starter
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Because i want to know if there is demand? If one guy wants a kit and thats it does that really justify my time to slave away for one turbo kit. Also i want to know what kind of sacrifices one is willing to give up to turbo the car. I would rather figure out a way to kep all accessories and major modification down due to cost to the buyer. Howver say 5 people want a turbo kit and they all dont care if they have to ditch the ac. It would be alot simpler because i could build a passenger side custom cast iron manifold that would have a inlet and an outlet. The driver side would run under the bell housing or run all the way back to where the Y is and curve towards the p side and run up the manifold then the outlet would run out the front to the airbox area to a single. Ihave many ideas yet I'm not going to waste a thought if no one wants to turbo there 4.6 Mustang owners have never had a problem ditching the ac or cutting some holes in the fender area and building custom radiator supports.....yet most MN12 owners seems as if they wouldnt be willing to give up anything to turbo the car

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97 F250 psd 4x4 dd twin charged
48 Gmc Detroit diesel 453t twin sticked
45 Chevy 451 detroit twin sticked
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post #8 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 03:54 PM
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wait, you said minimal cutting of the chassis.....thats a lot different than cutting some holes in the inner fender wells.

There is always a demand for something, but with noone knowing you, and seeing what work you have done, I don't think you are going to have a huge waiting list.


And, with most Mustnag kits, you don't have to sacrafice ditching or relocating anything.

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post #9 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _95badbird View Post
why don't you build one first, sort it all out, then come back with an offer to sell something.

i wanna see it run!




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post #10 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _95badbird View Post
wait, you said minimal cutting of the chassis.....thats a lot different than cutting some holes in the inner fender wells.


And, with most Mustnag kits, you don't have to sacrafice ditching or relocating anything.
with most mustang kits you have to ditch the K member in afavor of a tubular k member for just about any kit. Since the aje k member for our cars is proven so far to not be so reliable (don't quote me since i have no experience) and the most important the cost factor or a mn12 tubular k member would kill a turbo kit on a budget. Also if you were on the forums im on you could see some of the frustration that alot of mustang owners deal with when dealing with big turbo companies like; missing parts, not fitting correctly, poor customer service and support, people screwed out of money....

when theres a will theres a way and afte some thought i may have found a way in the next few weeks illl check sopme things out and why my TT kit is pulled apart soon to finsih up some work on the manifolds ill be able to do a little work.

The way i have in my head may be super simple to have a bender duplicate so theres maybe 1-2 welds the custom manifold just may take time to come up with

2x95 cougars to the scapper
97 F250 psd 4x4 dd twin charged
48 Gmc Detroit diesel 453t twin sticked
45 Chevy 451 detroit twin sticked
51 Mack A51T restoration

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post #11 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-19-2008, 09:40 AM
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i have a 4v mark viii, and i am so interested that i will buy this even for a 2v, and find a way to make it work. let me know when you start, i can see progress, measure stuf take pictures etc. the only sucky thing about this, is that I'll have to sell my kooks, and they were such a pain to put on.
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post #12 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-19-2008, 09:58 AM
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im gonna go out on a limb and say that this is 99% pipedream.




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post #13 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-19-2008, 02:02 PM
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I wouldn't let you turbo my lawnmower.

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post #14 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-19-2008, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightningvic View Post
i have a 4v mark viii, and i am so interested that i will buy this even for a 2v, and find a way to make it work. let me know when you start, i can see progress, measure stuf take pictures etc. the only sucky thing about this, is that I'll have to sell my kooks, and they were such a pain to put on.
im going to start with the design for a 2v and see if i can even get that in the works. After crawling around my car I have figure that running a 2.5" pipe from driver side under the bell to the p side is possible with keeping everything above the frame line then ill have to come up with an idea for a custom inlet/outlet manifold. the main issue is my car dosent have ac right now but i could pick up the ac lines from the yard or see if i can find a cheap stock lx [pick it up to mock up the kit. From looking at pics theres a spot where you can get a bend from the front to the airbox however theres a maze of ac lines that make it a pipoe dream

2x95 cougars to the scapper
97 F250 psd 4x4 dd twin charged
48 Gmc Detroit diesel 453t twin sticked
45 Chevy 451 detroit twin sticked
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post #15 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-19-2008, 09:58 PM
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i agree with everyone else, id say build it, test it, drive it, see how it pans out then look for a list of ppl to buy this. i for one wont invest in something that hasnt been proven to work, especially being a backyard job of someone i dont know. no offence. as i do applaud your desire to do all this.

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post #16 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-20-2008, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
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it will be tested and well fabricated before i ever advertise for a kit. Its going to be a while but its on my list of things that i will do even if it takes more than a year(and it most likely will)

2x95 cougars to the scapper
97 F250 psd 4x4 dd twin charged
48 Gmc Detroit diesel 453t twin sticked
45 Chevy 451 detroit twin sticked
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post #17 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-21-2008, 01:30 AM
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The problem with a front mount turbo or turbos on the MN12 is and has always been the hot side. It's hard to bring the exhaust forward. Then it's even harder to get a 3" exhaust back out of the engine compartment cleanly. If you wanna cut up a bunch of stuff, it's no biggie. But saying it's a little tight is like saying the Pope is a little Catholic. Good luck......you'll need it!

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post #18 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-21-2008, 09:39 AM
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that around the bellhousing trick isnt a bad idea. Both the buick grand nationals, and the 7.3 liter powerstrokes i used to work on had the pipes going over the bellhousing, I don't see why going slightly under the bellhousing would be a bad idea. Also, keep the manifolds as close to the block as possible, the 2 vehicles i mentioned both used logs to get the exhaust to the turbos, and it worked pretty well.if you keep the manifolds close to the block, and you run the hotside around the rear to get it back to the front, then that means the side opposite the hotside exhaust crossover is going to have a decent amount of space for the downpipe to route the exhaust back to the rear of the vehicle. Also, just because there isnt room for a full 3 inch downpipe to get by, doesnt mean you cant get 5 inches worth of exhaust back to the rear of the car. If the turbo is in the front right corner where the airbox was, and you are routing it back down the drivers side, you could use a y to get the pipe diameter from 3 inches to twin 2.25s or something like that. I have faith in you judging by the work you did in the other thread on your car, I could see you had a definite plan.

Sir william was right, you are going to have to be Harry Houdini to make this work, but, there was a Harry Houdini. Keep me posted.

As for Cobra R thunder, I wouldn't turbo his lawmower either, youd have to explain to him why his lawnmower was faster than his thunderbird
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post #19 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-21-2008, 10:39 AM
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SirWill- pretty off topic, but is there anywhere i can see pics of your engine and turbo setup? ive kept my eyes open for years, but have never seen much more that exterior shots. i would really like to see how you have everything setup.

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post #20 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-21-2008, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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some of the work turbo kits ive built so far was using what i had lying around. I didnt purchase expensive turbos and mandrel bent pipe and my truck was built with flux core wire. Also i remind you im the kind of person who dosent mind cutting a little or relocating major stuff. I have also since been practicing mig welding (flux core is a wire feed welding process however without shielding gas it uses flux in the wire) and my welds are looking more top notched as i go.
here is my turbo 4.0 and ive since redid the preturbo plumbing for smoother flow instead of that crapy pinched piece of pipe i built it in a hurry in one weekend and ive pushed it to 15psi so far. I drive it everyday more than 2 hours. oh and it was built for no more than 150$$ with stuff i just had lying around

these welds are hard to get like that most people cant even get flux to weld right

and here is my new dp i built recently with MIG

Here is my TT setup. The manifolds cost me 30$, turbos100$, and I'm going to be running short down pipes with some race mufflers dumped before the K.






and lightningvic your right this is a houdinni act as I've said i want it to be top quality and well designed and that takes time. Soon my car is going to be taken all apart again and why Im in there I may be able to do some preturbo work and take some measurments.

2x95 cougars to the scapper
97 F250 psd 4x4 dd twin charged
48 Gmc Detroit diesel 453t twin sticked
45 Chevy 451 detroit twin sticked
51 Mack A51T restoration

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post #21 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-21-2008, 02:54 PM
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you might want to take a college course on welding.
just some constructive critisizm.

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post #22 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-21-2008, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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actually ive had welders/mechanics look at my setups/welds and said hey not bad. EIther way my setups havent broke and everyday i continue to test them even with weaker flux welding that im stepping up from. Last time i saw some pics of your setup everything wasnt top notch either and i saw a few welds that ...If you welded them you have no place to step and or go fire your welder. Ive seen alot of really iffy welds on many setups (not going top call more out because i start enough firestorm) but no ones ran as many coments about them as my welds either way there will be alot more practice before any kit rolls

oh and muffler clamps dont count as welds

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97 F250 psd 4x4 dd twin charged
48 Gmc Detroit diesel 453t twin sticked
45 Chevy 451 detroit twin sticked
51 Mack A51T restoration
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post #23 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-21-2008, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
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actually ive had welders/mechanics look at my setups/welds and said hey not bad. EIther way my setups havent broke and everyday i continue to test them even with weaker flux welding that im stepping up from. Last time i saw some pics of your setup everything wasnt top notch either and i saw a few welds that ...If you welded them you have no place to step and or go fire your welder. Ive seen alot of really iffy welds on many setups (not going top call more out because i start enough firestorm) but no ones ran as many coments about them as my welds either way there will be alot more practice before any kit rolls

oh and muffler clamps dont count as welds
never said I was a better welder...ass
did you miss the line of constructive critisizm?

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post #24 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-21-2008, 04:09 PM
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I don't see a problem with the welds. Practice usually helps there. We are wondering about the power steering pump placement however.
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post #25 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-22-2008, 08:06 AM
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You really need to build a decent looking and functioning turbo system and show what it will do before talking about making kits to sell. So far everything you have posted pics of looks like it was cobbled together from junk you had laying around and is really rough. Sorry, but that's not the kind of thing people are going to be interested in buying.

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post #26 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-22-2008, 10:40 AM
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Stick and flux-core welding are not going to work very well with thin pipes, that's sort of a given. To do a top-notch job, the best way is to shield both the front AND the back side of the weld, meaning you need shielding gas inside the pipe as well. Most home welders aren't setting up fixtures and a gas feed to do that. Getting by is one thing, doing it the best way is another.

It meets your needs, so I have no problem with it. If it was going on my own car, I would look with a more critical eye. I applaud your enthusiasm and willingness to experiment.

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post #27 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-22-2008, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Neibert View Post
You really need to build a decent looking and functioning turbo system and show what it will do before talking about making kits to sell. So far everything you have posted pics of looks like it was cobbled together from junk you had laying around and is really rough. Sorry, but that's not the kind of thing people are going to be interested in buying.

David
not everyone has 20+k t ospend on a turbo setup and im building it with my two hands not some shop

the 97 vic motor is coming out this weekend i picked this up this morning 01 PI

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97 F250 psd 4x4 dd twin charged
48 Gmc Detroit diesel 453t twin sticked
45 Chevy 451 detroit twin sticked
51 Mack A51T restoration
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post #28 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-22-2008, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
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not everyone has 20+k t ospend on a turbo setup and im building it with my two hands not some shop
These two guys didn't have $20K to spend either and both systems were home built. Building it with your own two hands is not an excuse for sloppy work, especially if you are planning to sell the kits.

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97711

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100542


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post #29 of 150 (permalink) Old 07-22-2008, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Neibert View Post
These two guys didn't have $20K to spend either and both systems were home built. Building it with your own two hands is not an excuse for sloppy work, especially if you are planning to sell the kits.

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97711

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100542


David
very well put.

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not very well put thats like comparing apples to oranges. Those parts put those builds to over a gran. both my car and truck were done for under 500$ COMBINED. I never said im going to throw together a kit with what i had laying around. OH and either way my truck is still turning strong everyday just got back from a 5 hr roadtrip on busy I5 in the turbo truck hauling a 500lb 4.6.

Truth is you may not like me or my setups but until you weld up a turbo to a motor all you can do is talk about what you know blah blah blah

dont you have something better to do like go to jiffy lube to get your oil changed or something like that?

Oh and if you didnt read the whole thread im not selling the same kits you see in the pics those are my rides. I could care less how the plumbing LOOKS i care about its durability and how well it works

IF i do ever build a 2V mn12 kit its going to take extra $$$$ time and alot of work to get things exact and like i said it may be 2 years befroe and IF (IF) i ever get a kit done. Howeveer at the rate of 2 years or more if i dont build a 2v kit for mn12 there never will be one. unless someone wants to push a large manufacture to push kits which none of them have any desire to

BEing an older rich company man you must have no clue how to do things on a measly budget?

JUST so were clear IF i build a kit it will be HOTSIDE ONLY (just the exhaust) the rest of the coldside, bov, turbo, wastegate, fuel system, tuning devices and so on will be purchased elsewhere so you can customize the kit how you want to set it up.

2x95 cougars to the scapper
97 F250 psd 4x4 dd twin charged
48 Gmc Detroit diesel 453t twin sticked
45 Chevy 451 detroit twin sticked
51 Mack A51T restoration

Last edited by twin turbo 281; 07-22-2008 at 02:48 PM.
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