Pros and Cons of rear-mounted turbochargers? - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-15-2009, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
Veteran Poster
 
EvilMooseofDoom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: People's Republic of Oregon
Age: 47
Posts: 732
Pros and Cons of rear-mounted turbochargers?

Hello, gang.

I'm curious about the pros and cons of some of the rear-mount (behind the rear axle) turbocharger systems I've seen pop up for sale recently. Other than a possible lag problem from having the air charge be routed through 10+ feet of tubing, and then the possible heat energy loss of not having the turbo as close as possible to the exhaust manifolds....does anyone here have some idea as to how effective they are, in comparison to traditional setups?

Thanks a bunch. I don't plan on using such a system, but I have a customer who wants to install such a unit on his 2006 Mustang GT....

Yes, I hate my Lincoln. Ask me about it sometime.

My Drivetribe garbage:
https://drivetribe.com/u/ivrqNaWFWj_...SaGpcKvLTz6v9w

My LarryLand Automotive Facebook Page:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Larry...61642343862942

My Scribd.com garbage: http://www.scribd.com/larry_vanzandt
EvilMooseofDoom is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-15-2009, 05:19 PM
4th Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Abilene, TX
Age: 42
Posts: 235
Send a message via AIM to LoadedButane Send a message via Yahoo to LoadedButane
I know a couple people who run them. They are surprising in the fact that lag isnt nearly as bad as you would think.

You can get some info on them here.

http://www.ststurbo.com/

Geoff
1995 Mercury Cougar
~Mark VIII Trans with jmod + converter, 255lph fuel pump
~heads, cams, and intake in the distant future or when I break something
LoadedButane is offline  
post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-15-2009, 08:25 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Chris_Murder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 5,404
Send a message via AIM to Chris_Murder
cons more pipe...more wieght, more chances for leaks, hot side and cold side, longer oil feeds, etc... otherwise none that I'm aware of. They run cooler remote mounted due to the longer pipe.

-1996 Pearl White Thunderbird 4.6 Sport 4v with many mods:
Current Best: 13.583 @ 103.74 10/2014.
227hp/241tq measured on calibrated mustang dyno, tested at full vehicle simulation with inertia enabled, no number skewing.
-2001 White Ford F-250 Super Duty 6.8 V10, 4-door, 4x4, Limo Tint, BFG KO2's, Bilstein 7100 Remote Reservoir Race Bypass Shocks, 6" Spring lift, Kenwood Double Din, K&N Intake, FlowMaster Exhaust
Amber_Murder's Daily Driver.
-2005 White GMC Sierra 3500 6.6 Duramax, Dually, 4-door, 4x4, Limo Tint, BFG Commercial T/A's, Rancho RS9000XL Shocks, Kenwood Double Din, K&N Intake, Banks Monster Exhaust
Chris_Murder's Daily Driver.
Chris_Murder is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-15-2009, 08:26 PM
5oh Transformer
 
ZeroRain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Buchanan, MI
Age: 32
Posts: 1,085
Send a message via AIM to ZeroRain
Sir William if im not mistaken has a rear mounted setup on his ride.

Zero

1996 Ford Thunderbird LX EFI Swapped 311 5spd "TT 5oh project"
1998 Ford Taurus SE 24v Duratec auto "DD"
1966 Ford Galaxy 500 352 Cruise-O-Matic "Restoration Car"

We don't just dream about fast toys, we build them!
ZeroRain is offline  
post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-15-2009, 09:48 PM
Seasoned Veteran Poster
 
Buckcreekbilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 875
I talked to the boys at STS when i was looking at my options. They told me rear mounted or mounted in place of the third cat works well on the tbirds.

95 Thunderbird LX 4.6
K&N cold air intake. True 2 1/4" duals, Xenon GFX. 3:55 Trac loc. Beefier trans, 2800 stall convertor, MkV111 aluminum driveshaft.
Buckcreekbilly is offline  
post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-15-2009, 09:49 PM
PostWhore
 
R8D-XXX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cuba, Mo
Age: 40
Posts: 1,043
Cons: It can suck water up in the filter on a rainy day. I think you can cover the filter but the possibility is still there.


Oh yeah, someone could steal your turbo....LOL

pics of my car
http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.p...ght=train+yard

Updated 10/14/11
3800 Dirty Dog installed and drag radials
13.0 @ 106.5 1.79 60ft
R8D-XXX is offline  
post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-15-2009, 09:59 PM
PostWhore
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,716
Send a message via Yahoo to 94 Thunderbird XX
One con I that keeps coming to my mind is that it's more exposed to the elements. A puddle splashing up on a hot turbine housing just might really wreck the day. Maybe they aren't quite as exposed as what I'm picturing though.

Delete my account.
94 Thunderbird XX is offline  
post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-15-2009, 10:10 PM
Seasoned Veteran Poster
 
Buckcreekbilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 875
I asked STS about that and they claim they've never seen that happen yet, but they sell em, so not sure if that's a fact or a sales pitch.

95 Thunderbird LX 4.6
K&N cold air intake. True 2 1/4" duals, Xenon GFX. 3:55 Trac loc. Beefier trans, 2800 stall convertor, MkV111 aluminum driveshaft.
Buckcreekbilly is offline  
post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-16-2009, 12:40 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
twin turbo 281's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Auburn WA
Age: 35
Posts: 2,631
Send a message via MSN to twin turbo 281
unless you submerge the entire turbine housing under water a little bit of water splashing shouldn't hurt it as thousands have ran remote mount setups with great sucsess. One con I can think of is relying on an oil pump to return the oil and the STS pumps are expensive. You can use a turbowerx shurflow pump and they work great. For some cars its a great solution but for a 06 mustang that has available conventional kits for it I would go with that.
http://www.moddedmustangs.com/turbon...stang-gts.html
http://www.hellionpowersystems.com/i...article&id=139

The cost for a Hellion system is about the same for a STS kit it not cheaper.

2x95 cougars to the scapper
97 F250 psd 4x4 dd twin charged
48 Gmc Detroit diesel 453t twin sticked
45 Chevy 451 detroit twin sticked
51 Mack A51T restoration

Last edited by twin turbo 281; 12-16-2009 at 12:45 AM.
twin turbo 281 is offline  
post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-16-2009, 10:54 AM
TCCoA Founder
Administrator
 
Sir William's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mountain Home, AR
Age: 48
Posts: 4,161
The water splashing on the turbine isn't a big deal as the max temps the turbo housing will see is only about 650-750....not the 1200+ that you see up near the block. I did get some issues with water as on the Bird, the ONLY place to mount the turbo is behind one tire or the other....unless you move the fuel tank or cut out the spare tire well. To combat that, I added a 90 degree elbow and am mounting the filter in the rear of the trunk. This will keep it clean and dry.

The loss of energy in the exhaust isn't a big deal as you run smaller turbine than you'd normally run if the turbo were further forward....so it's able to spool on less total exhaust flow.

God Bless and Fly Low!

Sir William
TCCoA Founder


97 Thunderbird LX - Smoothed

99 Expedition Eddie Bauer

04 Grand Cherokee Overland
Sir William is offline  
post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-16-2009, 12:44 PM
PostWhore
 
R8D-XXX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cuba, Mo
Age: 40
Posts: 1,043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir William View Post
The water splashing on the turbine isn't a big deal as the max temps the turbo housing will see is only about 650-750....not the 1200+ that you see up near the block. I did get some issues with water as on the Bird, the ONLY place to mount the turbo is behind one tire or the other....unless you move the fuel tank or cut out the spare tire well. To combat that, I added a 90 degree elbow and am mounting the filter in the rear of the trunk. This will keep it clean and dry.

The loss of energy in the exhaust isn't a big deal as you run smaller turbine than you'd normally run if the turbo were further forward....so it's able to spool on less total exhaust flow.
Would you mind providing a little bit more detail about your setup? What size turbo, how much boost, what was your HP gain, ect....?

pics of my car
http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.p...ght=train+yard

Updated 10/14/11
3800 Dirty Dog installed and drag radials
13.0 @ 106.5 1.79 60ft
R8D-XXX is offline  
post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-16-2009, 03:57 PM
PostWhore
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,716
Send a message via Yahoo to 94 Thunderbird XX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir William View Post
The water splashing on the turbine isn't a big deal as the max temps the turbo housing will see is only about 650-750....not the 1200+ that you see up near the block.
Ahh...that does make sense now.

Delete my account.
94 Thunderbird XX is offline  
post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-16-2009, 07:27 PM
TCCoA Founder
Administrator
 
Sir William's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mountain Home, AR
Age: 48
Posts: 4,161
I'm trying to find the turbo specs, but they're on a different PC me thinks.

I ran about 5lbs of boost. I didn't get it on a dyno or to the track once it was dialed in, but I can tell you that it would pull against Tony Cerno's Super Coupe on the highway in 2nd and 3rd. That car was dynoed at 330hp, so you can get a pretty good idea on it. I was running PI intake and cams along with 30lb/hr injectors at that point.

God Bless and Fly Low!

Sir William
TCCoA Founder


97 Thunderbird LX - Smoothed

99 Expedition Eddie Bauer

04 Grand Cherokee Overland
Sir William is offline  
post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-16-2009, 07:52 PM
PostWhore
 
R8D-XXX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cuba, Mo
Age: 40
Posts: 1,043
sweet, sounds like it ran pretty good. I've kinda been flirting with this idea also. I've already got 2.5" dual exhaust to make a run back and forth from the turbo if I put one on....LOL

pics of my car
http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.p...ght=train+yard

Updated 10/14/11
3800 Dirty Dog installed and drag radials
13.0 @ 106.5 1.79 60ft
R8D-XXX is offline  
post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-18-2009, 06:41 PM
Rob
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Rob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Hubbard, TX
Age: 37
Posts: 3,902
Send a message via AIM to Rob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir William View Post
To combat that, I added a 90 degree elbow and am mounting the filter in the rear of the trunk. This will keep it clean and dry.
Thats a good idea! It would be very unlikely to suck in water, which would be my biggest fear. Being able to use a trunk-mounted intake would be a plus of running a rear turbo setup. I am kinda thinking of doing something with this, but I know very little about boosting things.
-Rob

-Rob
RIP '94 Amber Fire Pearl Metallic Thunderbird on Bullitts [email protected]
96 Sport '02 Explorer PI with ported heads, 90MM LMAF, DirtyDog Marauder TC, Lasota tune, Jmod, Magnaflow mid-mount with X, no cats. Urethane drivers motor mount. HIDs!
Rob is offline  
post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-18-2009, 09:06 PM
Seasoned Veteran Poster
 
Buckcreekbilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 875
Here's the link to show some diffrent installs...........http://www.ststurbo.com/uni_installation

95 Thunderbird LX 4.6
K&N cold air intake. True 2 1/4" duals, Xenon GFX. 3:55 Trac loc. Beefier trans, 2800 stall convertor, MkV111 aluminum driveshaft.
Buckcreekbilly is offline  
post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-20-2009, 09:31 PM
PostWhore
 
Black_Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Virginia Beach, Virginia
Age: 27
Posts: 1,637
Garage
Send a message via AIM to Black_Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Murder View Post
cons more pipe...more wieght, more chances for leaks, hot side and cold side, longer oil feeds, etc... otherwise none that I'm aware of. They run cooler remote mounted due to the longer pipe.
The biggest con is that they can easily be cut off of your exhaust in 5 minutes with a saws-all while your in your local Wal-Mart.....No thanks, I'll take something safe under my hood



2011 BMW X5 35i Premium Package
2009 BMW 535i ///M Sport Package
Black_Cat is offline  
post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-28-2009, 12:55 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
cougar_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: TN
Posts: 664
I've always been intrigued by the STS kits. When I was looking to buy my C5 Vette, I was seriously considering this route, but I never went that way. I'll tell you a good person to talk to about this (and not to take away from the vast knowledge of other members on this site) is ssrogers. He is a really good freind of mine and is vastly knowledgable. He may be a newbie, but the boy knows his stuff. Give him a PM and I am sure he would be happy to lend an opinion, but be prepared for a novel in terms of the explination.

United States Navy - Honorable Discharge

Nashville Predators - ENOUGH SAID!

See what we've been up to:
http://forums.tccoa.com/forumdisplay.php?f=95
cougar_fan is offline  
post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-01-2010, 04:36 AM
3rd Gear Poster
 
HGainiac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by '95Cougar_XR-7 View Post
The biggest con is that they can easily be cut off of your exhaust in 5 minutes with a saws-all while your in your local Wal-Mart.....No thanks, I'll take something safe under my hood
Great... I'd forgotten that... I've been thinking about a turbo 'specially after seeing the results around here, but you just reminded me there was a rash of a$$#@les around here a while back doing just that... then again they were cutting cats for the precious metals as well... build the 'bird an leave it home...
HGainiac is offline  
post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-03-2010, 09:55 PM
PostWhore
 
Woodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Duluth, MN
Age: 45
Posts: 1,885
Garage
I like turbos, but I prefer them with manual transmissions. To combat turbo lag, downshifts are a necessity... the time to drop from 5th to 3rd to get a nice pass on slower traffic is more than enough time to make up for any turbo lag.

Since it's so difficult to get a manual in the Tbirds (unless you've got a supercoupe, and if you do why turbo it?) I wouldn't put one in mine, but that's just my opinion.
Woodman is offline  
post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-04-2010, 04:25 PM
PostWhore
 
David Neibert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St. Charles MO
Posts: 1,324
Quote:
(unless you've got a supercoupe, and if you do why turbo it?)
Why?? To make it faster.

David

1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat..................707HP/650TQ
David Neibert is offline  
post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-04-2010, 05:24 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tinton Falls, NJ
Age: 36
Posts: 7,409
Garage
Send a message via AIM to MadMikeyL
I actually would think the auto would be better suited to the turbo. With a manual, every time you shift, its going to bog down and lag, then spool up and pull. With an auto, it keeps the engine loaded, so once you start going, you'll never feel the lag again until after you lift off.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
-"Your buddy Mike is INSANE!" -ClintD's dad
MadMikeyL is online now  
post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-04-2010, 11:17 PM
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: West Chicago
Posts: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
With a manual, every time you shift, its going to bog down and lag, then spool up and pull. With an auto, it keeps the engine loaded
This = True

Now DOHC
StrmChkn4.6 is offline  
post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 02:55 PM
PostWhore
 
Woodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Duluth, MN
Age: 45
Posts: 1,885
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrmChkn4.6 View Post
This = True
I think it depends on the type of driving you do...

For example, I don't care for drag racing, I like twisty roads and power at need. My experience with Turbos were with a 1985 Cougar XR-7 5 speed, a 1985 SVO Mustang 5 speed, and a 1987 Merkur XR4Ti with an auto.

Essentially, the motors are the same across the board, so the main difference was the transmission. The Cougar and SVO both liked to drop from 5th to 3rd to get right into the power band, and I never noticed any lag when dropping two gears. If I only dropped down to fourth, it took longer for boost to build, but the difference in RPM wasn't as dramatic between 5th to 4th as it was from 5th to 3rd.

The Merkur did better off from a standing start due to the ability to preload the turbo, but in the twistys the car seemed to hunt for gears, but my overall dislike of performance driving in an auto may be clouding my memory.

So let's just say that my personal preference is a manual with a turbo.
Woodman is offline  
post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 03:00 PM
2nd Gear Poster
 
MATLOCK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Palmyra, IN
Age: 38
Posts: 71
i have had rear mounted on my stang and now have it in the engine bay and i can tell you I would never go to rear mount again....IMO

All the ponies below are located at my ranch in INDIANA if anyone wants to go for a ride...haha
1989 XR7 SC 5-speed
1996 Bronco on 33's
1995 Mustang GT mild 302 Quicktime Turbo kit 543hp on 9lbs
MATLOCK is offline  
post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2010, 02:07 AM
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: West Chicago
Posts: 64
When it comes to the corners a manual transmission can really work the IRS to the fullest extent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MATLOCK View Post
I would never go to rear mount again....IMO
I was considering a remote turbo.... Do share???

Now DOHC
StrmChkn4.6 is offline  
post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2010, 09:28 AM
2nd Gear Poster
 
MATLOCK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Palmyra, IN
Age: 38
Posts: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrmChkn4.6 View Post



I was considering a remote turbo.... Do share???

the matterials needed.....tuning is diff. and took us way longer and ...rear mounted exposes vital parts to road hazzards.....running oil lines is no fun and you will have to run at least 1.75 (i ran 2 extra quarts in mine) more quarts of oil do to the long oil line and the return line..also the drain of oil from the turbo has to be assisted by pump since gravity return is not an option any longer....also the amount of cold side piping is insane espec. if you run an IC.

All the ponies below are located at my ranch in INDIANA if anyone wants to go for a ride...haha
1989 XR7 SC 5-speed
1996 Bronco on 33's
1995 Mustang GT mild 302 Quicktime Turbo kit 543hp on 9lbs
MATLOCK is offline  
post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2010, 10:48 AM
5th Gear Poster
 
winkysrides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Waynesville ohio
Posts: 384
Send a message via AIM to winkysrides
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Neibert View Post
Why?? To make it faster.

David
lol go ask ira about turbos....lol

Quote:
  • "Chuck Norris built my shortblock. It runs on the tears of small children and makes 10,000 hp. He said it's his 'street version' "
wheel hoppin and poppin!
91 Thunderbird sport 357W 5speed
88 stripped out 5.0 C4 and 4:56 gears in a 9in Ford


winkysrides is offline  
post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2010, 11:07 PM
PostWhore
 
David Neibert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St. Charles MO
Posts: 1,324
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkysrides View Post
lol go ask ira about turbos....lol
Are you talking about the same Ira who is in this video ?

http://www.youtube.com/user/Blown38#p/u/74/__IDq1i63ng

He's a real nice guy with one of the fastest SCs in the country. Just don't understand why I should ask him about turbos, when I know he doesn't have one.

David

PS: Here's one with me racing against Ira later that day.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Blown38#p/u/61/SaX4Z7M4LPE

1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat..................707HP/650TQ

Last edited by David Neibert; 02-11-2010 at 11:10 AM.
David Neibert is offline  
post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-09-2010, 08:18 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Tx_Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: El Paso, Tx
Age: 37
Posts: 3,391
Send a message via AIM to Tx_Cat Send a message via MSN to Tx_Cat Send a message via Yahoo to Tx_Cat
Nice vids David..


PhotobucketNitrous and boost go together like peanut butter and jellyPhotobucket


Nuttin make you feel more like a man in a Thunder Cougar Falcon Bird

Tx_Cat is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome