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post #1 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-09-2010, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
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What Ive been working on...

Ok friends. Here is a look into the twin turbo project i have been working on for some time now. Its not a whole lot now but you can get an idea of whats going on. The headers i would prefer to not hear anything on because they were mainly done of scrap and just to get some fitment issue taken care of and to give me a good idea of where i want to have the turbos sit. They will be rebuilt with a set of mustang shorties most likely. As you can see the battery has already been moved to the trunk and wires are ran, im only waiting on a battery box to finish the wiring up. The fuse box has been moved to the shock tower, the only wires i had to extend for this was the plug from the alt. The next thing i need to do is finish the down pipes with the external wastegates and the hot side will be done. The most pressing thing currently is my oiling system. I have had a few ideas run thru my head on this one but havent really come up with anything solid. The first idea i had was to come off the sending unit supply and run to each turbo. Second was, since i have to do a remote oil filter anyway to clear the down pipe, to tie into the oil return line from the remote oil filter setup. Im currently unsure of the best way to feed these guys so input is greatly accepted. Now with the return i have seen alot of people di just gravity and be fine. I have also heard great thing about doing a scavenge pump and just route it to the valve cover. Input please on that one for sure. So without further ado here are some pics.














I also have the HID ballast and control units installed.



Zero

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post #2 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-10-2010, 02:39 AM
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it looks ok. the driverside needs to be a lil better but looks good

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post #3 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-10-2010, 07:04 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Iron. Like i said its just temp for the placement and all. Get a good idea of where my wiring needs to go and how i wanna plumb the lines in and get the down pipes correct. Once thats good i think i will refab the headers or better yet have someone thats better at welding then i am.

Zero

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post #4 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-12-2010, 10:38 PM Thread Starter
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Any ideas on where i should get my oil feed from?

Zero

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post #5 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 12:32 AM
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Filter adapter housing unused port?

-1996 Pearl White Thunderbird 4.6 Sport 4v with many mods:
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post #6 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 10:55 AM
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Thanks Iron. Like i said its just temp for the placement and all. Get a good idea of where my wiring needs to go and how i wanna plumb the lines in and get the down pipes correct. Once thats good i think i will refab the headers or better yet have someone thats better at welding then i am.

Zero
Suggest not plumbing the wastegate exhaust exit side back into the downpipe until you are done with the headers, because future changes to the headers will most likely result in the wastegate location changing and no longer fitting up to the downpipe connections.

I think you would be very wise to finalize the headers before moving forward with the rest of the pipe fabrication...if not you are going to have to redo it all.

I'd get the oil supply for the turbos from the sender location using a tee. Run 4AN line to a point near the distributor and then tee off that line with two 3an lines to the turbos. I'd use 10 AN drains and a scavenge pump to return the oil to a nipple added to the oil fill stalk.

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post #7 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 11:10 AM
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What is supporting the turbos?

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post #8 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
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David do you honestly feel the scav being the best option? Or gravity and draining back into the pan would be sufficient? Also can i ask why you suggest the oil sending unit for the supply? 94 the i dont have the brackets installed but they kinda look like a spanner wrench with a L on one side. They grab the turbo center section on the hot side.

Zero

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post #9 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 10:20 PM
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gravity feed will be fine. A pump can fail. Just run the headers you built there not perfect but will work. Do build turbo supports to the motor. Dump tubes for the wastegates they only vent exhaust at max boost no need to plumb them into the exhaust. build the cold side first and rip the hood off and put two 90 pipes pointed up out of the outlets to test the setup make sure your happy then build exhaust. Also move the coil heat will kill it. AND practice punching, tapping a junkyard pan before you punch yours.

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post #10 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 10:25 PM Thread Starter
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Well my supports dont need to be to the motor. Im using solid mount so no movement anyway. now with the wastegates its going into the down pipes. I hate the sound of the cars when they crack open and are vented to the air. I dont like the way these headers are anyway so they will be rebuilt for sure. the stock tbird ones suck anyway so why keep them in a turbo application?

Zero

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post #11 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 10:30 PM
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you can also place mini mufflers on the dump tubes and its not the vibration im talking about the weight of the turbos hanging can crack welds.

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post #12 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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Maybe the mufflers but seems like its more clutter then what i want under the hood when i can just route it back into the downtube fairly easy.

Zero

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post #13 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-14-2010, 12:40 PM
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David do you honestly feel the scav being the best option? Or gravity and draining back into the pan would be sufficient? Also can i ask why you suggest the oil sending unit for the supply? 94 the i dont have the brackets installed but they kinda look like a spanner wrench with a L on one side. They grab the turbo center section on the hot side.

Zero
Yes I think a scavanging pump is going to be the best way to handle the oil return. The oil coming out of the turbo is going to be frothy, and if doing a gravity drain back to the pan the hose has to be positioned somewhere between vertical and 45 degrees without any low spots in the hose or it won't drain well enough to prevent the seal to the exhaust housing from leaking and creating an oil burning mess in the downpipe. Gravaty drains are also flowing against any crank case pressure you have from blowby.

Under boost you are going to have the frothy oil flow fighting pressure in the pan. If running a scavenge pump the drain line routing isn't nearly as critical and doesn't have to maintain such a steep fall in the line. It also provides much more flexibility whith where you can run the drain lines. If the scavenge pump fails, the oil seals in the turbo will release the excess oil into the turbine housing/exhaust system and it will smoke like crazy, but it's not going to damage the turbo.

You can't just punch a hole where ever you want in the pan. It has to be located above the oil level, away from something that is going to sling oil into the drain fitting, and not driectly behind a main bearing cap. It can be done with gravity drains, but it's more difficult.

Getting oil supply from the sender port is the easiest and usually the most central location on the motor. It could be taken from a remote mounted filter base, but that would mean using a longer supply line. You will have enough problems just keeping the remote filter hoses away from the downpipe.

I agree 100% with your position on plumbing the wastegate back into the downpipe.

David

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post #14 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-14-2010, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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Dave what pump did you end up going with and where did you place yours? I was looking around on mine and i was thinking that if size and weatherproofing permitted i was going to place it in the driver side wheel well, pretty much right under the turbo. I just walked in from the garage and i got to thinking about intercoolers. I know i can fit a pretty decent size one infront of the radiator but my biggest question is lag. What size do you recomend for these smaller turbos? The push about as much air as the early tbird IHI iirc.

Zero

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post #15 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-14-2010, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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Here is a quick snap of the HID aswell. I only have the pass side done but it looks good.





Zero

1996 Ford Thunderbird LX EFI Swapped 311 5spd "TT 5oh project"
1998 Ford Taurus SE 24v Duratec auto "DD"
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post #16 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-15-2010, 10:27 AM
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Dave what pump did you end up going with and where did you place yours? I was looking around on mine and i was thinking that if size and weatherproofing permitted i was going to place it in the driver side wheel well, pretty much right under the turbo. I just walked in from the garage and i got to thinking about intercoolers. I know i can fit a pretty decent size one infront of the radiator but my biggest question is lag. What size do you recomend for these smaller turbos? The push about as much air as the early tbird IHI iirc.

Zero
I'm not using a scavange pump. I have single turbo with 4AN supply line restricted to .067 at the turbo with a 10 AN gravity drain back into the pan. As originally built it smoked like crazy. Hose had to be shortened and routed much closer to hot pipes and required several layers of insulation on the drain line to keep it from burning. If doing it over, I would use a scavenge pump and return the oil to the valve cover.

With twin turbos, you will probably want to use a dual inlet, single outlet vertical core intercooler, like Iornworker is using on his twin turbo. I went with the largest single inlet/outlet horizontal flow core I could fit. I was supposed to be getting a top of the line name brand intercooler, but the company who fabricated the turbo system used a made in China ebay intercooler instead. It works fine, at cooling the intake charge, but blocks a lot of the air flow to the radiator, so engine cooling is a problem in the summer. The intercooler size, location and cold side pipe sizes have very little impact on turbo lag, so I wouldn't be very concerned with that.

I don't know enough about those turbos to comment on their use for this project. Suggest going to this site for more info.

http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php

David

1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat..................707HP/650TQ

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post #17 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-15-2010, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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Well it looks like i do need to get ahold of a scav pump. Do you have a brand pref by chance?

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post #18 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-15-2010, 11:28 PM
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Exa-P...#ht_1618wt_939


here is the one i have

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post #19 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-16-2010, 08:06 AM Thread Starter
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I like the looks of that pump. I think the wallet is gonna hate me tho. lol.

Zero

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1998 Ford Taurus SE 24v Duratec auto "DD"
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post #20 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-16-2010, 12:03 PM
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I like the looks of that pump. I think the wallet is gonna hate me tho. lol.

Zero
i know mine did but it is the best one out there and it comes with a warranty . i rather pay a lil more that i know my ass is going to be coverd

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post #21 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-16-2010, 12:11 PM
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get a oil cooler too .. we need all the help we can get to keep the oil cool for your twin turbos

http://spinningwheels-sc.com/index.a...D&ProdID=51756

i have this too

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post #22 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-16-2010, 01:55 PM
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ok lets do it this way what do u have make a list and i will fill in the blanks and everything else u need.. ill try to help u out .. im almost done with my all i have to do is put the motor together

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post #23 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-17-2010, 08:24 PM
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Oil cooler is not necessary. I use a werx pump for my return oil. Looking good. The bend on the driver side looks iffy but shouldn't cause any problems..


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post #24 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-17-2010, 08:57 PM
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You could just try the gravity drain first. if it works out for you it would save you 200$+ dollars for a pump. Plenty have ran gravity drains with no problems whatsoever. Just keep the PCV system of course.

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post #25 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-17-2010, 09:00 PM
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Oil cooler is not necessary. I use a werx pump for my return oil. Looking good. The bend on the driver side looks iffy but shouldn't cause any problems..
ya but it helps the life of the turbos with cooler oil .. in mine im just covering all the bases . some might be over kill but i know its going to last

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post #26 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-17-2010, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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The oil cooler is a def posibilty. I want to get the remote mount filter on first and then figure out how the lines for the return and supply will run. I also need to get an intercooler that i like and will fit. I have a plate full of crap lol. I think im going to get the lines ran first for the feed and supply do some test runs with the oil return and see if i want to use the grav or scav. The intercooler is also weighing on my mind.

Zero

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post #27 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-18-2010, 01:00 PM
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what kinda intercooler u going to run

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post #28 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-18-2010, 09:51 PM Thread Starter
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idk yet. i really dont want a knock off but it will get the job done and work. but fitting it in there and the tubing is iffy.

Zero

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1998 Ford Taurus SE 24v Duratec auto "DD"
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post #29 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-18-2010, 10:11 PM
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i used a double intercooler... did u see how i put mine togethere

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post #30 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-18-2010, 10:53 PM Thread Starter
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yea i was looking at your piping. Im unsure still tho. I need to get an intercooler that i like and will fit in there and then just work the piping for sure. I also want to get a shorter but thicker rad aswell.

Zero

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1998 Ford Taurus SE 24v Duratec auto "DD"
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