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post #1 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-16-2005, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
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inline turbos a good idea?

I am thinking about running two turbos, a small one on the exhaust to spool a big one that actually feeds the engine. trying to aleviate some turbo lag. I would of course run a wastegate on each. Anyone know of this being done, or if it is a good idea? The car is a 95 V6.
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post #2 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-16-2005, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 232bird
I am thinking about running two turbos, a small one on the exhaust to spool a big one that actually feeds the engine. trying to aleviate some turbo lag. I would of course run a wastegate on each. Anyone know of this being done, or if it is a good idea? The car is a 95 V6.



i think it would be a little overkill to run two

run one larger one and it simplifies and makes it a whole lot cheaper too



if you are looking for a good turbo to use i have a holset h1c for sale that is currently on e-bay it should support whatever your plans may be for the v-6


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...MESE%3AIT&rd=1

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post #3 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-17-2005, 12:10 AM Thread Starter
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It will have to make 500+ horsepower on a 3.8. Do you know where I can get a compressor map for it? I wanted to run two to decrease the turbo lag. The 3.8 won't push a whole lot of air out at low RPM, especially since I have it making more power up high.
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post #4 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-17-2005, 12:24 AM
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A higher stall TC will take care of the low rpm problem.

-Rod

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post #5 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-17-2005, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 232bird
It will have to make 500+ horsepower on a 3.8. Do you know where I can get a compressor map for it? I wanted to run two to decrease the turbo lag. The 3.8 won't push a whole lot of air out at low RPM, especially since I have it making more power up high.






it will support 500+ h/p dunno about were to find compressor maps for it
lag will be almost non exsistant if your combo is set up properly plus it has a split scroll turbine witch helps spool also


holset's are like the army tank of turbo's they are built almost idestructabe



i have ran this on my 2.3L it spooled around 3,000 rpm if you sprayed a 50 shot it would spool much sooner it will make all the boost you desire over 35-38 psi and still be effeciant

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post #6 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-17-2005, 01:01 AM Thread Starter
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Sleeper, that's not the stock turbo for turbocoupes, right? I know a TC would help, but I want to keep my factory one, Rod. Good idea on that, but after the issues I had with my 5.0 Mustang, I want to keep everything as close to stock as possible. Good luck with that, I know. HAHAHAHA. Oh well. I might just run nitrous like Sleeper said.
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post #7 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-17-2005, 02:00 AM
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You're planning on putting 500+ hp through a stock TC? As you said, "good luck".

Alan aka Dirtyd0g, builds some great TC's.

-Rod

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post #8 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-17-2005, 10:04 AM
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I suppose you want to keep the 205/75-15 all seasons on at the strip with a 500hp car too? If you're just dreaming right now, that's fine. But if you're making serious, bonafide plans, then you need to regroup and plan differently.

If you plan on supporting 500hp, you're going to need a different block, crank, rods, pistons, etc. If you were starting with a SC block, you'd be most of the way there. You'll need to run some VERY good ported heads and the right cam to make that kind of power with a turbo. Also, if you want it to spool good down low, you won't flow the air you need up top to make the power you want. So to eliminate the problem, simply increase your stall. This will get you building boost off the line. Oh, and you'll need to rebuild the trans to take that kind of power also as well as replace the miniscule 7.5" rear with an 8.8".

Now, if you'd already taken these things into account, bully for you. But you said you wanted to leave things "as close to stock as possible". Personally, I don't see it happening. Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

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post #9 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-17-2005, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
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I guess what I meant by "as close to stock as possible," I meant do what I can so it when it is not naking boost, it still runs ok. My 5.0 Mustang wouldn't idle or run worth a **** until I spent about a year tuning it with a TWEECER. I heard the 94/95 EEC's couldn't keep up with mods, anybody know how the 3.8's do? Oh, and I did take everything into consideration. It will have the bottom end and trans beefed up/rebuilt, and I already have an 8.8" in it. And it looks like I need a bigger TC from what you guys are saying. Anyone know how a 2500 or 3000 RPM converter will do on the street on a daily driven car?
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post #10 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-17-2005, 10:59 AM
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Well, I know for a fact that the 94-95 CAI or SC EEC's (they have DIS) do pretty darn well when used with a SCT chip.

A 2500-3000 stall does just fine on the street. Either way, you'll need a good transmission cooler.

As far as beefing up the bottom end goes, here are some things you should be looking at: SC block, SC crankshaft, either SC rods or aftermarket, aftermarket pistons. I would recommend a pair of Steigmeier heads, but from what I hear, he isn't doing them anymore. Going with splitport heads and intakes wouldn't be a bad idea. Whatever you do, don't stick with the pre 96 stock 3.8L singleport NA heads, unless you like blown headgaskets.

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post #11 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-17-2005, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 232bird
Sleeper, that's not the stock turbo for turbocoupes, right? I want to keep everything as close to stock as possible. Good luck with that, I know. HAHAHAHA. Oh well. I might just run nitrous like Sleeper said.


no no the stock turbo coupes used a tiny turbo if you look at the pics you can see it is almost as large as the motor they came factory on dodge 3500 series trucks.



nitrous will be they only way (if you are not going to set it up right ) to reduce lag time but i doubt it will have much with the v-6

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post #12 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-18-2005, 08:54 PM
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A supercoupe block wouldnt be the only option, any supercoupe block, or 96+ block would work great, and a 2005 3.9L block would be excellent, and they're only 200 dollars new from Ford. Deffinetely use a supercoupe crankshaft or get a 4.2 crank from Ford as well, I believe they're 300 bucks. Then you'll want some forged rods, h-beam would be a good idea at that power level. Deffinetely forged dished pistons. Extensive port work isn't required either, this can be seen as fact in Matthew Neuharth's 587rwhp single turbo v6 mustang, which only has his own self ported heads with stock valves. He does, however, have a custom cam. I can tell you right now with a stock cam you will never reach your goal, it just won't flow enough. Matt has also put that power to a cast 4.2 Ford crank, so that would most deffinetely support your abuse. A single turbo will not create any more lag than a twin setup would, assuming you spec the turbo correctly. Turbo technology is so advanced nowadays that lag is not as much of an issue anymore.

You will deffinetely want a beefed up transmission, that should go without even saying. with the power band you'll have the stock TC would explode, and your stock tranny internals would burn out very quickly. a high stall TC will virtually eliminate your turbo lag and give you an amazing torquey launch.

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post #13 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-18-2005, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
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Extensive port work isn't required either, this can be seen as fact in Matthew Neuharth's 587rwhp single turbo v6 mustang, which only has his own self ported heads with stock valves.
-Thomas
Thomas, you're talking about splitport heads here, right?

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post #14 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-18-2005, 09:50 PM
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Amazingly enough, Rod, no, Matt has a single-port and the heads are only self-ported. Truly amazing by my standards. Just goes to show what the correct cam can do.

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post #15 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-18-2005, 09:52 PM
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Or what the correct entire setup will do. I guess he knows what he is doing when it comes to port work, then.

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post #16 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-18-2005, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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So a 3.9L block will work with all my 3.8 stuff (heads, accessories, sensors)? Cool. I was going to get a 4.2 shortblock and rebuild it. So heads don't affect flow that much with a power adder, huh (as long as they are opened up)? I had heard that, but have never seen it in practice. And as far as speccing the turbo, I was going to get a bunch of compressor maps and choose off of that. Is that what you meant?
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post #17 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-18-2005, 10:10 PM
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well, there's no telling what Matt would be making with larger valves. I would assume that with his power level he could gain 30-40hp and a much faster spool with larger valves. There is a lot of gain to be had from it, and the improvement in flow is great. Ive got heads with larger valves spec'd for a turbo and a cam to go along with it as well. The larger intake valve will help out a large amount, and with a turbo you can size up the exhaust valve more-so than what you would with an NA or supercharged setup because turbo(s) can use all it can get. With my heads and cam along with the transmission I have planned I may just be able to hit full boost off the line

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post #18 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-18-2005, 10:12 PM
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OH and yes, the 3.9L block will work. Everything will bolt up. The 3.9 block has more beef around the main journals and actually has enough material to be tapped for a 4-bolt main, but custom main caps would be required.
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post #19 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-18-2005, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
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Hey Thomas, I jumped over to V6Power.net, and saw a 3.8 and 4.2 OHV section in the forums. I think. Something like that. There was stuff on the 3.9 in there. The 3.9 isn't OHV, is it? Or are those guys refering to the new 4.0? Do you know? I think I saw some posts from you in there. Also, what is this 3.9L you were talking about? I just realized I have no idea what it is. The only 3.9 I know of is the V8 in the new Thunderbirds.
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post #20 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-18-2005, 11:52 PM
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yeah a lot of people get confused when I say something about the 3.9. In 2004 Ford changed the displacement of the 3.8 to the 3.9, with a new, redesigned block and I believe the crank has a VERY slightly longer stroke, obviously very minisule if it only gives .1L more of displacement. It was put in the minivans, mustangs, and I believe the taurus chassis as well.

The 3.9 from the new birds is DOHC, a completely different motor. The 4.0 is SOHC and is also completely different.

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post #21 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
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It was put in the minivans, mustangs, and I believe the taurus chassis as well.
Nah, for a decent little while now the Taurus has only been available with the pushrod 3.0 and DOHC 3.0.

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post #22 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 05:11 PM
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If you want compressor maps, check out www.turboford.org , and ask those guys. They have one of the best tech boards around for turbo stuff, especially on smaller engines. They also have a large article explaining compressor maps and how to chose the correct sizing for your application.

There's a few guys on there making 500+ hp on their 2.3L four bangers; one guy is above the 700hp mark.

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post #23 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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I have a quick question. After all this, a 5.4 pretty much fell into my lap. It needs a head and one piston (but I would put in forged rods and pistons). I would take my time and build it myself, then either get all the wiring and everything from a wrecked V8 and put it in my car along with springs and everything else I would need, or just buy a V8 and convert it. I would of course build the 5.4 to make power (aftermarket or ported intake and heads, and cams), however, I am not sure if this the the best way to go as opposed to building my current engine, as far as weight and cost versus the end result (if the 3.8 stays, it WILL have a power adder). The 5.4 will be complete, including engine wiring, sensors, injectors.... A customer of mine is replacing the dead motor with a Ford test motor with about 8 hours on it that we found through a supplier. I don't know much about the MOD motors, and am most worried about the weight (I like my "light" V6), and the final cost when I end up finishing everything. Any help to be given would be awesome, as I have to know if I want it within the next couple of days, or else it goes back as a core. Oh yeah, it is off a 99 F-150 with about 160K miles. It ran great until the incident (he took it to someone else for a tune up to a couple bucks. Oops.). Thanks.
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post #24 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 09:24 PM
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you would need a 6" cowl hood, and without a power adder the 5.4 wont make a whole lot of horsepower, but would make a lot of torque. You would also need a transmission from a modular vehicle, since the v6 4r70w wont bolt upto the 5.4 block, and even if it did it wouldnt last long at all.
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post #25 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-20-2005, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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Well, we got the new replacement motor, and had to switch a lot more over than what we originally thought (2005 motor vs.99 truck), so I decided to hold off on paying the core and keeping the old motor. I would have ended up with a bunch of parts I can't use, and a tired block. Also, I did some research and found people that put the 5.4 into Thunderbirds and Mustangs, and was not impressed with the results I saw. Thanks for the help.
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post #26 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-20-2005, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
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Oh yeah, how much more than the V6 does the V8 weigh?
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post #27 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-20-2005, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 232bird
Oh yeah, how much more than the V6 does the V8 weigh?
Which V8? 4.6L SOHC, 4.6L DOHC, 5.0L, 5.8L SOHC, etc..........

I know that the fully dressed 4.6L DOHC in my 90 XR7 weighed in at just under 500 lbs. But that is an aluminum block 4.6L DOHC.

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post #28 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-21-2005, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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3.8 vs.4.6 SOHC
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post #29 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-21-2005, 10:27 AM
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well then you've got several more option. The newer 4.6 SOHC's have an aluminum block, but the 4.6's in the birds has iron.

v8 birds usually weigh in around 3900lbs, my 93 v6 weighed in at 3680lbs back when it was stock.

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post #30 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-21-2005, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
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Ouch. What about if I put in an aluminum block 4.6?
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