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post #1 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-17-2005, 04:37 AM Thread Starter
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Remote Mount Turbo System?

Something Like This

Say you hang a turbo in place of the muffler and then run some 2 inch piping for the intake, would it be worth it for just a little added pep? Grab a turbo from a volvo/saab in a junk yard get the required parts and run at 6psi on a stock 5.0L?

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post #2 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-17-2005, 07:25 AM
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Uhhhhhhhhh...that is the setup that Sir Will has. He is/was working with STS (I think) to try to fab a kit for our cars. It used to be on the turbo portion of this site but has disappeares within the past few months. It IS a good idea though.

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Soon to have some MHS parts, cams, 'luminum block, lower compression, ported heads, autorotor, and need to make long tubes. I have almost all the stuff and need some #42-50s a bypass valve, and maybe a few other things.
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post #3 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-17-2005, 11:43 PM
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yep sir will says it works really well and he's only pushing about 5 lbs of boost as I recall. If I had the money I would definitely do it. But gotta build up an engine first before any boost.

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post #4 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-18-2005, 05:49 AM
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Not for 5psi. If you were going to run anything over 6 you should AT LEAST go with better pistons. Other than that, I would not step up.

Chris

Soon to have some MHS parts, cams, 'luminum block, lower compression, ported heads, autorotor, and need to make long tubes. I have almost all the stuff and need some #42-50s a bypass valve, and maybe a few other things.
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post #5 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-18-2005, 09:28 AM
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well sir will is only running 5lbs to get all the bugs out and once everything is worked out thats when the kit is going to be getting its full boost. atleast thats what I recall from that thread where they talked about it. But even though you would see benefits from 5lbs of boost to me it really isn't worth the money to only run 5lbs of boost. If I'm going to do turbo its going to be a full blown 18lbs of boost

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post #6 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-18-2005, 09:41 AM
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i would hope the bugs have been worked out by now, hes had it on there since sept 04.
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post #7 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-24-2005, 02:11 AM
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whats the lowest ET he has gotten with 5lbs?

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post #8 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-24-2005, 06:18 AM
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I dont know. I was hoping he was going to chime in after he read this with some dazzeling new information or something...Aparently I was wrong.

Chris

Soon to have some MHS parts, cams, 'luminum block, lower compression, ported heads, autorotor, and need to make long tubes. I have almost all the stuff and need some #42-50s a bypass valve, and maybe a few other things.
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post #9 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-24-2005, 06:33 AM
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yeah I figured he would be talkin by now... someone PM him and let him know this thread is here... maybe he missed it.

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post #10 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-24-2005, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokymance
whats the lowest ET he has gotten with 5lbs?

It's in the 14 second range somewhere, don't forget that he still has an NPI intake and cams though, and I'm fairly certain stock exhaust manifolds.

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post #11 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-24-2005, 06:05 PM
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Well, the only time it was on the track, it hadn't been tuned at ALL, had horribly rich (off the scale) A/F, completely bald BFG street tires and the turbo wasn't broken in at all. It was doing high 14's at mid 98MPH. It was a real pig off the line as the turbo took forever to spool up.

Once the turbo was broken in and I got the A/F and timing better (still not done a dyno tune yet), it pulls MUCH harder. The turbo hits full boost by around 3400-3500 now. I've since swapped to a PI intake and cams and it really pulls nice. But I'm still only doing 5lbs. The system can develop a LOT more than that, but the wastegate blows at 5lbs. It's hard on the wastegate by around 3600-3800 and stays there til you lift.

I have no clue what kind of times it'll run as I live 4 hours from a drag strip. But I can tell you that when the temp is below 40 degrees, it breaks the tires loose above 4500rpms in first and doesn't hook back up until after the shift. Of course I am running crappy 225/60-16 Eagle GT II's (they were free) on the back right now.

From a completely bench-racing standpoint running the numbers, it should be around 315-340rwhp somewhere.

With a PNP forged motor, I think 10-12lbs would be EASY with this system. I'd guess 400-450 would be a pretty easily attainable goal. But the checkbook will come nowhere near supporting that at the moment. Maybe if Ed McMahan will give me my darned money!


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post #12 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-24-2005, 09:15 PM
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Soooooo...what can the rest of us expect? I mean, it IS in the works for a production right? If not...which turbo are you running. Its time to step it up on my end and I think a turbo would be really cool.

Chris

Soon to have some MHS parts, cams, 'luminum block, lower compression, ported heads, autorotor, and need to make long tubes. I have almost all the stuff and need some #42-50s a bypass valve, and maybe a few other things.
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post #13 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-25-2005, 01:25 PM
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seawalk its a custom turbo that fits for that application... The last time we inquired on this he wouldn't say. I guess the company wouldn't let him. I can't wait for it to come out in a kit

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post #14 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-25-2005, 06:27 PM
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It shouldnt take long to map one out. I have done some research on this. The problem is I am not sure what I am going to do. I have all the stuff to set up with PI heads and the bullitt intake, but I think I am going 4v with a short stroke in an aluminum block. I need to find out where that would flow and I can build from there.

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Soon to have some MHS parts, cams, 'luminum block, lower compression, ported heads, autorotor, and need to make long tubes. I have almost all the stuff and need some #42-50s a bypass valve, and maybe a few other things.
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post #15 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-25-2005, 06:53 PM
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I'm not saying the system is custom... I'm saying the turbo itself is custom to fit the application. So that it supplies boost but you don't sense the turbo lag so bad with it being all the way at the end of the car. The veins in the turbo, size of them, size of the turbo itself. Its all custom fabricated. And thats why its taking a while....

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post #16 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-25-2005, 10:43 PM
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Uhhh...You can chose a turbo by using a turbo map. I am sure the custom is the way to go because it fits the total need of the car. However, if you chose one in the center of the map, you SHOULD only notice a differece in a race situation. It should have no ill effects on street use.

Chris

Soon to have some MHS parts, cams, 'luminum block, lower compression, ported heads, autorotor, and need to make long tubes. I have almost all the stuff and need some #42-50s a bypass valve, and maybe a few other things.
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post #17 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-25-2005, 11:51 PM
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It's not a custom turbo, it's just a non-traditional turbine/compressor combo spec'd to specifically accommodate the cooler exhaust gasses and the displacement of our cars. It's sized to pretty easily support 425-475hp without having excessive lag down low.

I need to change a couple things about the way I have mine. Mainly the location or at least the orientation of the wastegate. Right now, it's the lowest thing on the rear of the car -- I've scraped the output pipe on it a few times.

I also need to make some changes where I go by the trans crossmember. Right now, it's the lowest point under the car. I need to do a bit of rerouting to correct that.

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post #18 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-26-2005, 06:20 AM
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When can we expect to see it for sale? At least the parts. I would like topiece my own together. Do you know the size(s) or is that one of the secrets too.

Chris

Soon to have some MHS parts, cams, 'luminum block, lower compression, ported heads, autorotor, and need to make long tubes. I have almost all the stuff and need some #42-50s a bypass valve, and maybe a few other things.
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post #19 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-26-2005, 10:21 AM
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definitely one of the secrets... I believe will is not allowed to say anything about the turbo specs itself.... like he's signed an NDA or something.

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post #20 of 57 (permalink) Old 01-17-2006, 11:14 AM
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I wonder if anybody has thought about putting a rearmount turbo on a vehicle that has a roots supercharger? You get the instantaneous torque of the blower and the high end HP of the turbo, when the blower isn't working as well.

I do know for a fact that certain Detroit Diesel motors are set up this way. They have a gear driven roots supercharger that is fed by a big Garrett turbo.

This is the same motor that is in the M109A6 Paladin Howitzer used by the Army. The Paladin is huge but, they can move (still not as fast as an Abrams or Bradley).

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post #21 of 57 (permalink) Old 01-17-2006, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin
I do know for a fact that certain Detroit Diesel motors are set up this way. They have a gear driven roots supercharger that is fed by a big Garrett turbo.
You are correct that they do that, but the reason for it may not be instantaneously clear to some people though.
DD uses superchargers on their engines because they are 2 stoke engines.

It isn’t there as a performance enhancement, it is there as an integral part of the engine, and without it the engine wouldn’t run.

Turbochargers are used as performance adders with DD engines.

In terms of adding a turbo to a blown engine, the performance benefit would have to be offset against the:
1) weight gain
2) engineering time
3) low potential performance gain
4) the cost

OR you spent $100 on a shiny new smaller supercharger pulley and go have fun!

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post #22 of 57 (permalink) Old 01-17-2006, 08:33 PM
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I actually have a $30 used 2.93" Lightning pulley along with an SCT tune by Jerry himself. I'm still having issues with their tune.

There are some bad things that can happen on a returnless style system versus a return style system that all birds have and enjoy. The issue I have is intermittent hesitation going into 3rd gear. It has something to do with calculating how much fuel to leave in the fuel rail in between shifts. Once I get my car back from the dealer, I have to "prove" the problem to SCT by doing some datalogging.

I have never heard of anybody feeding a turbo into a supercharger on a gas motor.

Weight gain: The car already weighs 3600 pounds (Cobras are heavy for Mustangs), what is another 200 pounds? Equivalent to having another passenger, which, I know doesn't matter that much on the street with that car.

Engineering time: negligible, just time. Oh, wait, I am an engineer, just the electrical type.

Low potential performance gain: How do we know? Nobody has ever tried it. Of course, I won't either because I am married and this relates to number 4, cost.

That blower would be starved on the low end, but I think the system would quickly spring to life. I said think, because I don't know of anybody who has tried it. We need to get Bill a built motor and an Allen blower!

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post #23 of 57 (permalink) Old 01-18-2006, 11:43 AM
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I STILL WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT THE TURBO FOR OUR CARS IS GOING TO COST. They are going to screw around and wait sooo long that it wont sell. Geeez...I knew I should have bought a mustang...

Chris

Soon to have some MHS parts, cams, 'luminum block, lower compression, ported heads, autorotor, and need to make long tubes. I have almost all the stuff and need some #42-50s a bypass valve, and maybe a few other things.
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post #24 of 57 (permalink) Old 01-24-2006, 08:51 PM
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wasnt there a site with sir williams turbo system pictured?

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post #25 of 57 (permalink) Old 01-25-2006, 01:49 AM
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Yeah...this one...Dunno where it went though.

Chris

Soon to have some MHS parts, cams, 'luminum block, lower compression, ported heads, autorotor, and need to make long tubes. I have almost all the stuff and need some #42-50s a bypass valve, and maybe a few other things.
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post #26 of 57 (permalink) Old 01-26-2006, 10:15 PM
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Intercooler

so what type of cooling system do you need for the remote turbo
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post #27 of 57 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 01:26 AM
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None. The piping is soo long that it acts like a cooler.

Chris

Soon to have some MHS parts, cams, 'luminum block, lower compression, ported heads, autorotor, and need to make long tubes. I have almost all the stuff and need some #42-50s a bypass valve, and maybe a few other things.
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post #28 of 57 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 08:33 AM
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but im sure an intercooler wouldnt hurt to add on. the colder the air the better

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post #29 of 57 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 03:56 PM
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Yeah...but at what point are you not getting any cooler air? The heat sinc from the front of the engine/rad may be more than an intercooler gains. I am just speculating now.

Chris

Soon to have some MHS parts, cams, 'luminum block, lower compression, ported heads, autorotor, and need to make long tubes. I have almost all the stuff and need some #42-50s a bypass valve, and maybe a few other things.
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post #30 of 57 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 06:27 PM
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i havent checked for clearance yet but wouldnt the turbo assembly fit under our chassis in the middle where the resonator is?

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