Thinking about getting a Turbo. - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-31-2008, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Triple-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Prince George, VA
Age: 33
Posts: 261
Question Thinking about getting a Turbo.

I'm thinking about getting a 86 Tbird Turbo Coupe, But it doesn't run though. The ODO reads 89k I believe. The guy says that he rebuilt the engine from the bottom up himself, And not too long after that it just stopped running. It will turn over just fine and sounds like it wants to start but it doesn't. I'm thinking since he rebuilt it himself that he might have knocked the timing off, Or did not put the Tensioner Pulley tight enough and it skipped a tooth. He wants $500 for it, But it has been sitting in his moms yard for the past 4-5 months so I'm thinking about offering him $250-$300 for it. He says that he put almost $1,200 worth of parts into it trying to get it started again but I only saw maybe about $300 worth of parts. He also has a Intercooler that he says he will sell with it for $50 extra, But he has let it set out in the weather and it is starting to rust. What do you guys think is wrong with it? I would like to get it and not have to put much money into it because my Tbird just went out on me AGAIN last night And I have no idea whats wrong with it, So I figured I would get the Turbo Coupe and fix the timing and set my 5.0 aside for now and fix it up slowly to be a drag car.

My old 5.0 MN12
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2942310

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, Torque is how far you take the wall with you......

Last edited by Triple-X; 02-15-2008 at 01:48 AM. Reason: It's an 86, Not an 84.
Triple-X is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-31-2008, 09:57 AM
3rd Gear Poster
 
cmill95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: marysville,ca
Posts: 172
those engines are prety easy to work on. i had a 2.3 in a 79 mustang and have one now in my 80 courier. pull the dist-cap and crank the engine to make sure the rotor spins. somtimes the roll-pin securing the gear at the base will shear. there is a plug in the front cover for the timing to be checked at. pop it out and rotate the engine to make sure the marks line-up. other than that, ensure you have the 3 main things, fuel, spark, and compression.
cmill95 is offline  
post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-07-2008, 01:29 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
The_Ghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Los Alamitos, CA
Age: 34
Posts: 2,055
Sounds like a plan!

96 Laser Red 4.6L - Custom
Custom Nascar-Inspired Bodykit - 55* Rear Spoiler - J-modded Trans - 80mm MAF - One-Off Diablosport Chipmaster Revolution Chip/Tune W/Toggle - ScanGaugeII Diagnostics & Data Readout - PBR Brakes - Drilled/Slotted Rotors - SC Wheels & Springs - Falken Tires - KYB GR-1 Shocks/Struts - FSTB - RSTB - RTLB - LECB - 60/40 Split Rear - SC Seats - SC Vac/Boost Gauge
The_Ghost is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-11-2008, 01:10 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Triple-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Prince George, VA
Age: 33
Posts: 261
I had JNT do a Carfax for me on the car, And come to find out that it has a NAM(Not Actual Miles) Title, And the car was involved in a rear-end collison with another car in October of 2002. And it also has a pretty big dent in the rear Quater Panel. It needs the front Bumper/Headlights replaced, But it does comes with a replacement for both. I'm thinking of offering him $200 at the most for it, Do you think the car is worth it? I was also thinking, Do these cars have a Fuel Cut-Off Switch? If so, Could that be the problem why it won't start?

My old 5.0 MN12
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2942310

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, Torque is how far you take the wall with you......
Triple-X is offline  
post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-11-2008, 09:26 AM
3rd Gear Poster
 
cmill95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: marysville,ca
Posts: 172
at 200, you would be getting it pretty cheap. i say go for it. i don't know about the FCS though.
cmill95 is offline  
post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-11-2008, 11:48 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Goshen, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5
I think going from a 5.0L that doesn't work to a 2.3L that doesn't work on the basis of reliability is a mistake. 2.3Ti aren't reliable, by any stretch. But a TC for $200 is a steal. I'd go for it, but I know what a handful these can be. Just be aware that you may be buying more headaches than your 302 ever could have given you.
oldraven is offline  
post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-11-2008, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Triple-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Prince George, VA
Age: 33
Posts: 261
I understand that it could be more of a hassle aswell, But I figure that if I can get it for $200 then if it turns out to be something major wrong with it, That I could part it out and get my money back... If not more. But according to people, They are easy to work on. And my 5.0 is a BIG money pit, I can't count how much money I have sunk into this car, Just to have it break down on me everytime I drive it... I fix one thing, Another breaks, It never ends. If I'm going to put alot of my time and money into a car, Than I would like a car that is better on gas than a 5.0 V8... And I have ALWAYS wanted a Turbo car, But never had the money to afford one, I have had quite a few Honda's over the years and they all had the option for putting an aftermarket Turbo on them, But It cost almost $4k for a basic setup.

My old 5.0 MN12
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2942310

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, Torque is how far you take the wall with you......
Triple-X is offline  
post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-14-2008, 10:15 AM
3rd Gear Poster
 
cmill95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: marysville,ca
Posts: 172
after you get the car and it's up and running correctly, look into getting a hybrid turbo from someone like garret or airreasearch. one like a garret T3/T4 hybrid would really wake that T/C up in a big way! see what they say about injectors also, you may want to step up one or two sizes or just crank up the fuel pressure.
cmill95 is offline  
post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-14-2008, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Triple-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Prince George, VA
Age: 33
Posts: 261
If I get the car(If he takes $200 for it) I will probably look into getting a better Turbo for it, How much would the Hybrid cost?

My old 5.0 MN12
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2942310

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, Torque is how far you take the wall with you......
Triple-X is offline  
post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-14-2008, 11:44 AM
3rd Gear Poster
 
cmill95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: marysville,ca
Posts: 172
IMHO, the hybrids are THE way to go. you keep the same size turbine for the initial spool up (cuts down on the time from peddal to boost), but a step up on the compressor size to be able to flow more air through your RPM band, not just the top end. you will still have a liniar boost gain, except it'll be at a more agressive angle,higher boost at lower RPM due to the larger compressor. one main thing to look at is the aspect ratoi(A/R) on a paticular turbo housing set-up. reducing this number WILL drop your lag time between padal and boost.
this unit:Garrett T3/TO4E 50 trim w/ .48, retails for about $620 plus 60 bucks for the 4-5 bolt ford flang adapter if needed, would work great on that T/C. call garrett and ask them about it. they better be able to answer all your questions for you.

i hope this helps. i personally LOVE the s#it out of turbos but i've got an S/C. soooo, blowers are the contempary boost producer for me.

look on e-bay, just found a bunch of T3/T4s on that site!!

Last edited by cmill95; 02-14-2008 at 01:37 PM. Reason: update
cmill95 is offline  
post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-15-2008, 01:49 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Triple-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Prince George, VA
Age: 33
Posts: 261
Cool, $620 isn't bad for a Turbo. I've seen Turbo's that go for more than $1,500... But of course they were rated at 500-1000HP. All I'm looking for is about 400HP at the wheels.

My old 5.0 MN12
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2942310

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, Torque is how far you take the wall with you......
Triple-X is offline  
post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-15-2008, 06:29 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Goshen, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple-X View Post
Cool, $620 isn't bad for a Turbo. I've seen Turbo's that go for more than $1,500... But of course they were rated at 500-1000HP. All I'm looking for is about 400HP at the wheels.
400 at the wheels? Is this a Daily Driver, or a track car?
oldraven is offline  
post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-15-2008, 09:44 AM
3rd Gear Poster
 
cmill95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: marysville,ca
Posts: 172
400 at the wheels is really good, but i saw an 80 mustang GT w/a turbo-4 pulling twice that much!

figure this, to make 400 hp you'll need a turbo that flows at least 44lbs/min. the one i reffered you to flows 46 so you'd be good there. after a couple running the numbers boost wise, it looks like to hit your hp#, you'll need to push 26lbs of boost out of your turbo. that's not counting the restrictions in the factory intake track and T/C intercooler. i don't know how restrictive those are but having that data may verry well switch the trim upwards (larger number) on the compressor wheel to hit your target HP#. remember one thing also, your gonna want to run a good fuel system. to figure out your fuel requirements for this beast, your gonna need to know your Brake Specific Fuel Consumtion(BSFC). all it is in a nutshell is how much fuel it takes to generate 1HP. then the math goes from there.

if you are going this route you should atleast O-ring the head and go HP head gaskets to keep 26Lbs of boost in the cylinders and not leak out.

this is doable, hell i hear of the rice grinders going over 20 lbs of boost so why cant you. it's gonna take some prep and planning , but hell, go for it!

it's too bad you don't live closer, i've got a 5.0 on an engine stand right now that you could put in your 92 that would really give that mn12 chassis what fer'. figure 498hp with leaking valve stems and 6 lbs of boost on a chassis dyno!

Last edited by cmill95; 02-15-2008 at 09:48 AM. Reason: update
cmill95 is offline  
post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-15-2008, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Triple-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Prince George, VA
Age: 33
Posts: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldraven View Post
400 at the wheels? Is this a Daily Driver, or a track car?
A little of both. I would like it to be a daily driver, But I also want to utterly DESTROY all the Rice Burners that come up to me at a red light and rev their engines. Plus, I would like to start going to the track, I only live about 30 mins. from the drag strip here in VA.

My old 5.0 MN12
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2942310

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, Torque is how far you take the wall with you......

Last edited by Triple-X; 02-15-2008 at 03:36 PM.
Triple-X is offline  
post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-15-2008, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Triple-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Prince George, VA
Age: 33
Posts: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmill95 View Post
400 at the wheels is really good, but i saw an 80 mustang GT w/a turbo-4 pulling twice that much!

figure this, to make 400 hp you'll need a turbo that flows at least 44lbs/min. the one i reffered you to flows 46 so you'd be good there. after a couple running the numbers boost wise, it looks like to hit your hp#, you'll need to push 26lbs of boost out of your turbo. that's not counting the restrictions in the factory intake track and T/C intercooler. i don't know how restrictive those are but having that data may verry well switch the trim upwards (larger number) on the compressor wheel to hit your target HP#. remember one thing also, your gonna want to run a good fuel system. to figure out your fuel requirements for this beast, your gonna need to know your Brake Specific Fuel Consumtion(BSFC). all it is in a nutshell is how much fuel it takes to generate 1HP. then the math goes from there.

if you are going this route you should atleast O-ring the head and go HP head gaskets to keep 26Lbs of boost in the cylinders and not leak out.

this is doable, hell i hear of the rice grinders going over 20 lbs of boost so why cant you. it's gonna take some prep and planning , but hell, go for it!

it's too bad you don't live closer, i've got a 5.0 on an engine stand right now that you could put in your 92 that would really give that mn12 chassis what fer'. figure 498hp with leaking valve stems and 6 lbs of boost on a chassis dyno!
400HP is good enough for me, I don't want to get insane though, 800HP is a little too much, For now. I figure I will save up around $2k and do everything myself(or atleast try to) and that shoud get me the 400HP I'm looking for. I figure I would need to open up the Intake, Get a Front Mount Intercooler, New Fuel Injectors, Seals/Gaskets Etc. I wish I lived closer too, I would love to see that engine run.

My old 5.0 MN12
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2942310

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, Torque is how far you take the wall with you......
Triple-X is offline  
post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-15-2008, 06:41 PM
3rd Gear Poster
 
cmill95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: marysville,ca
Posts: 172
the FMIC is a great idea for that T/C. the 800hp moostang i saw had the turbo facing forward and the intake he had fabbed-up had the inlet facing forward also so there was only two 90 degree bends after the turbo(minus the intake snaking around ofcourse). you may be able to clock(turn) the turbine housing and the factory intake 90 degrees to make that happen for you also and not incur alot of higher costs for custom parts.
a few years ago i was reading in one of the ford magazines about the SVOs and they were making "big" numbers (300+hp) with a ford factory grind ranger truck cam. sooooo, it doesn't take alot of cam, just boost and airflow. if i remember right, they were also running tubular headers/manifolds that link to the turbo. what turbos they were useing evades me as time has wiped that away, but as i stated before, the one i suggested a few posts ago should get you where you want to be, hp wise.
cmill95 is offline  
post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 02:10 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Triple-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Prince George, VA
Age: 33
Posts: 261
I've read ALOT of posts at TurboFord that say the Ranger Cam is best, Then others say that the stock Cam is better(except that the stock cam is a slider). I will probably go aftermarket on the Cam, I will probably go with a Stinger Header and FMIC. The T/C I'm looking to get already has a aftermarket "Dual" Exhaust system on it, I will probably change it to a single 3" straight through Exhaust system though, You really can't have True Duals on a 4 banger.... I will have to go take some Pics of the car soon and look for Rust everywhere, And hope it does not have any. I hope he will take $200 for it, But he probably won't since he has "$1,300" worth of parts in it. How much do you think the car is worth given the history(NAM title and accident) and the fact that it does not run?

My old 5.0 MN12
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2942310

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, Torque is how far you take the wall with you......
Triple-X is offline  
post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 09:20 AM
3rd Gear Poster
 
cmill95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: marysville,ca
Posts: 172
your original figure if 250-300 is probibly right on. when you see the car/ talk to him personally while looking at the car you should be able to gauge how bad he wants it gone. just go from there.
tru-duals are almost imposible except for a N/A car with a split header where each cylinder thats 180 degrees offset is hooked together. find an exhaust aplication catalogue listing for somthing like an 80 moostang GT turbo or a T/C that has a down pipe and splits out right before the trans cross-member. you could always use that as a guide for a 3" downpipe that splits to dual 2&1/4 on out. just a thought.
cmill95 is offline  
post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 03:33 AM
5th Gear Poster
 
Hobohuey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Catlettsburg, KY
Age: 33
Posts: 443
Get the car going first, then worry about performance. There is a Fuel Cut off switch, its located in the trunk behind the driver side tail light, just pull the trunk carpeting back to find it. Another known problem is the auxilery shaft and distributor gear. The dizzy is run off of the auxilery shaft, which is run off the timing belt. When you take the cap off, make sure the dist spins when the car is cranked. If it doesnt, then one or both of those gears might be stripped. Not a bad fix at all. Good idea on checking the timing belt, its VERY possible and bery easy to fix. Reliability wise, these cars are Ok. I drive over 100 miles to race it and trust it. Some engines are running over 200K on the bottom ends and are running under 14's in the quarter.

Is the car auto or standard? The auto transmissions are A4ld and are known to crap out which is why the auto cars are limited to 10#s of boost. Most change out to the t-5 or swap in a c-4 using an adapter plate from Canfield Industries. If I remember right, auto cars had single exhaust while the standard had dual exhaust.

Now, for go fast goodies. Look the intercooler over and see if it looks ok. If its an 87-88 intercooler then $50 is too much (besides its aluminum, its shouldnt rust). If he has the FMS intercooler, then picking it up for $50 is a good thing. Do a motorcraft Tune-up, these cars only like motorcraft. The 86's had the T-3 turbos by Garrett. You need to take the snout off the compressor and see if there is any in and out play, side to side play, and if it spins freely. Slight play is OK.

A hybrid turbo is overkill for only 300hp. The T-3 is more than enough to get you there. At 300hp the stock fuel system cant keep up. Youll need a fuel pump to just run any power over stock safely, and an adj. fuel pressure regulator to bump the pressure up slightly (2-3psi) to cheat the injectors a little. Anything more will require aftermarket tuners (EEC Tuner, Tweecer, SDS, Megasquirt) to control the larger injectors. Put on a 3inch exhaust, cone filter, and a boostvalve.com valve to really wake the car up.

You can look in my signature for what im running. The ranger cam is really a decent camshaft for not alot of money, but its holding me back now and im looking to swap it out for the a237 and shoot for 13's. I believe that im starting to push the limits of the stock fuel system as well.

If you really want to know alot about these cars try NATO (www.turbotbird.com). Theres a bunch of great people there that will be more then happy to help you out.

'95 T-Bird - Light green, 98 Crown Vic Police Interceptor Engine, 96 Grand Marquis Tranny, 3.27 Trac-loc, Ford MotorSports Trans cooler, Sport Springs, Blaupunkt Richmond, Memphis Car Audio 5x7's, Cerwin-Vega 150.2 powering mids/highs, Volgenhag 4-channel 1200w amp (junk), 2 Memphis Car Audio 12's

'88 T-bird turbo - Silver, 5spd, Rebuilt Engine, t-3 .63, Custom FMIC, Bobs Big Log, Bob's 3" Elbow, Walbro 255lph, Maximum Motorsports Coil-over Kit, Bilstein HD struts, Hypercoil 200# 14" Springs, Caster/Camber Plates, Ranger Roller, Gillis Valve at 20#, 3in. Side-Dump Exhaust, NGK Iridium XI Plugs, Jacobs C-4 Coil, High Volume Oil Pump, MAX PSI Oil Lines, Poly Bushings, 245/50/R16 Nitto 450's, Autocross car

Last edited by Hobohuey; 02-28-2008 at 08:47 AM.
Hobohuey is offline  
post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Triple-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Prince George, VA
Age: 33
Posts: 261
It is a 5-speed. From what I heard, Boport makes some pretty good Cams, He is over at www.TurboFord.net I will probably get most of the performance parts from Stinger Performance(Also at TurboFord.net). The Intercooler is from a 87-88 and may have just been dirty, I just looked at it for a second and thought it was rusty. I should be going and checking it out more this coming up week, I will ber checking the car over for rust, and then looking at the engine to see if it is the timing/dizzy. Hopefully it is not a rust bucket and it is something simple.

My old 5.0 MN12
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2942310

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, Torque is how far you take the wall with you......
Triple-X is offline  
post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 11:21 PM
5th Gear Poster
 
Hobohuey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Catlettsburg, KY
Age: 33
Posts: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple-X View Post
It is a 5-speed. From what I heard, Boport makes some pretty good Cams, He is over at www.TurboFord.net I will probably get most of the performance parts from Stinger Performance(Also at TurboFord.net). The Intercooler is from a 87-88 and may have just been dirty, I just looked at it for a second and thought it was rusty. I should be going and checking it out more this coming up week, I will ber checking the car over for rust, and then looking at the engine to see if it is the timing/dizzy. Hopefully it is not a rust bucket and it is something simple.
5-speed, Sweet!

Ive heard good things about Bo-port. Ive read all I can find on his cams, there supose to be fantastic, but I hear also quite pricy (price of a237 about 10 years ago). I hope his claimes are half as good as he says, then i should be able to get an a237 or essy 2277 for a song.

Im debating on sending my head to him for portwork or letting my local engine builder do it (ex-nascar engine builder, specialist in ANYTHING that goes fast). It will cost roughly the same either way.

For the 87-88 intercooler youll need to swap hoods, but thats an easy swap and im sure you know that by now.

The important place to check for rust is where the front strut towers connect to the subframe. Rust there killed my first bird and several others from the stories Ive read.

'95 T-Bird - Light green, 98 Crown Vic Police Interceptor Engine, 96 Grand Marquis Tranny, 3.27 Trac-loc, Ford MotorSports Trans cooler, Sport Springs, Blaupunkt Richmond, Memphis Car Audio 5x7's, Cerwin-Vega 150.2 powering mids/highs, Volgenhag 4-channel 1200w amp (junk), 2 Memphis Car Audio 12's

'88 T-bird turbo - Silver, 5spd, Rebuilt Engine, t-3 .63, Custom FMIC, Bobs Big Log, Bob's 3" Elbow, Walbro 255lph, Maximum Motorsports Coil-over Kit, Bilstein HD struts, Hypercoil 200# 14" Springs, Caster/Camber Plates, Ranger Roller, Gillis Valve at 20#, 3in. Side-Dump Exhaust, NGK Iridium XI Plugs, Jacobs C-4 Coil, High Volume Oil Pump, MAX PSI Oil Lines, Poly Bushings, 245/50/R16 Nitto 450's, Autocross car
Hobohuey is offline  
post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-01-2008, 12:35 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Triple-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Prince George, VA
Age: 33
Posts: 261
It already has a 87-88 hood on it, I will check everywhere I can see for rust. I've heard good things about Bo-port aswell, That's why I mentioned him. But, If there is a ex-nascar engine builder who will do it, I'd say go that route.

My old 5.0 MN12
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2942310

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, Torque is how far you take the wall with you......
Triple-X is offline  
post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-15-2008, 02:20 PM
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: nj/ny
Age: 50
Posts: 31
good luck what ever u do
bigjohn68 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome