New '87 Turbo Coupe - Advice Appreciated - TCCoA Forums
 5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Switzerland
Age: 41
Posts: 30
Garage
New '87 Turbo Coupe - Advice Appreciated

Hi everyone

I have the rare chance to get hold of a practically new T-Bird TC from 1987. It has 800 miles and has never been licensed so is supposed to be like new.

Has anyone here experience with cars like that? Is it something like a chance of a lifetime or should I expect trouble after trouble even if it's like new? I'll have to find out when I test drive it if it was well stored and looked after or if it got a lot of deterioration in storage. The seller would give it to me with fresh licensing from the vehicle authority, so will be technically good.

I don't have the time and money to spend on restoration or maintenance but would really like to get this car as it would be a bit a dream come true.

I would appreciate any opinions and experiences.
Fab Bird is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 09:12 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: fantasy land
Posts: 575
I'm no expert but I have had buddies purchase cars that sat for years in storage..
Depending on storage conditions , I would expect a lot of the seals and rubber on the car to be dry cracked..
Has it sat with all the fluids in it? I wouldn't do a thing until I regreased and changed every fluid in the car, filters too while your at it...
If it's a price that you can't pass up...jump on it..seriously..i can see the turbo coupes becoming very popular soon as small engine turbo has become the craze .
May I ask what you plan on spending on it?
94badbird is offline  
post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 09:37 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tinton Falls, NJ
Age: 36
Posts: 7,388
Garage
Send a message via AIM to MadMikeyL
It depends what your intentions with the car are. If you are just going to hang onto it and preserve it as the time capsule that it is, then it will be fine. If you are going to drive it sparingly on occasional nice weekends, then it will probably be ok for a while, and you should be able to keep up with things as they come up. If you think you are going to daily drive it and not have to do any significant repairs for 30-50k miles, then there is no way. No matter how it was stored, rubber deteriorates with time, so as soon as you start driving it, all the various bushings and gaskets will start failing, and you will have multiple oil leaks and suspension creaks and noises. However if it is the car you really want, I would rather rebuild the suspension and reseal the motor than have to deal with rust and paint and a worn out interior, so it isn't necessarily something to stay away from, but don't expect to just turn the key and drive it for 5 years like you would with a new car.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
-"Your buddy Mike is INSANE!" -ClintD's dad
MadMikeyL is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Switzerland
Age: 41
Posts: 30
Garage
Many thanks for your reply. It has been advertised a couple of days ago and is ready for a test drive. So the fluids are now in it, I'll ask the owner if the fluids were taken out during storage, thanks for the tip!

The car is advertised for around 23'500$ (converted) which is slightly above what I would be prepared to spend on it. Last year there was one on ebay for much more.
Fab Bird is offline  
post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Switzerland
Age: 41
Posts: 30
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
It depends what your intentions with the car are. If you are just going to hang onto it and preserve it as the time capsule that it is, then it will be fine. If you are going to drive it sparingly on occasional nice weekends, then it will probably be ok for a while, and you should be able to keep up with things as they come up. If you think you are going to daily drive it and not have to do any significant repairs for 30-50k miles, then there is no way. No matter how it was stored, rubber deteriorates with time, so as soon as you start driving it, all the various bushings and gaskets will start failing, and you will have multiple oil leaks and suspension creaks and noises. However if it is the car you really want, I would rather rebuild the suspension and reseal the motor than have to deal with rust and paint and a worn out interior, so it isn't necessarily something to stay away from, but don't expect to just turn the key and drive it for 5 years like you would with a new car.
Thanks a lot for your advice. Yes I would use it for a drive on the weekend or similar. I would say maximum 2'000 miles per year.

I do really want it but not for the prize of frustration, failures on the road or very expensive rebuilds... then I'd rather go for a test drive, take pictures and keep the afternoon for a lifetime memory with my dream car. But then again, if you can own your dream car, why not work and spend money for it? I'm a bit torn between that's why I'm thankful for your opinions.
Fab Bird is offline  
post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 12:15 PM
PostWhore
 
Woodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Duluth, MN
Age: 44
Posts: 1,864
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian View Post
Many thanks for your reply. It has been advertised a couple of days ago and is ready for a test drive. So the fluids are now in it, I'll ask the owner if the fluids were taken out during storage, thanks for the tip!

The car is advertised for around 23'500$ (converted) which is slightly above what I would be prepared to spend on it. Last year there was one on ebay for much more.
Where are you located?

I had a 1985 Cougar XR-7, same engine, no intercooler, less power. It was a fun car, but I'd have trouble spending $23000 on one even if it only had 800 miles on the odometer.

I inherited a 10 year old Crown Victoria that had 15,000 miles on it when my grandmother passed away. I drove it 1500 miles home to Minnesota from Texas, and it creaked and groaned over every bump due to the rubber bushings deteriorating. I did end up replacing the soft lines on the brakes, the suspension bushings (the ones that were greasable were OK for the most part though) and the fuel pump and fuel filter due to the very old gas that didn't go through the tank much wearing out the pump.

All told, it wasn't expensive, as I did the work myself, but it was a free car so I didn't mind so much. If I were to buy what is essentially a new car, at new car pricing, and have to do that work, it'd upset me.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
Woodman is offline  
post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 12:27 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tinton Falls, NJ
Age: 36
Posts: 7,388
Garage
Send a message via AIM to MadMikeyL
Well if it is your dream car, and you can swing the purchase price, and you have an indoor storage location for it, then I would say try to get it. Those are quite difficult to find without rust issues even here in the US, so I have to imagine that in Europe it would be even harder, and like I said, all the issues that are going to come up are much cheaper and easier to fix than rust repair. Worst case, you could hang onto it for a few years and probably sell it for a profit.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
-"Your buddy Mike is INSANE!" -ClintD's dad
MadMikeyL is offline  
post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 02:42 PM
PostWhore
 
T6Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,686
That could be a really cool car, and if well bought, be a decent investment. It should only go up in value.

However, we need pictures!

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 78k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 CVPI- Brenda's car - 71k miles
Previous Fords:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years, 220k miles
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years, 206k miles
T6Rocket is offline  
post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 03:35 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
S4gunn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SF, CA
Age: 40
Posts: 2,559
Garage
MSRP of 1987 Turbo Coupe = $12,972
$12,972 in 1987 in Dec-2017 dollars = $28,780

FASTENAL (FAST) IPO'd in 1987 with a $9/share price. Today it's up 7,041% = $12972 in FAST would be worth ~$913,000 today.
Even if you didn't pick a lotto ticket like that,
VFINX (Vanguards S&P index fund) from Jan 1st, 1987 to 1/31/2018 is up 975%
$12972 worth of VFINX = $126,477

Yeah, this wasn't a good investment for the original owner. How much did he enjoy having an 3380LB paperweight in his garage?

Will you enjoy the same even if you are getting a "discount" off of what it would have cost new + not storing it for 31 years? I presume that you are going to pay cash for this car since I'm be shocked if someone would be willing to finance this old a car.

Q: Are there other places you can spend your money?

PS. Even if this car is kinda of cool for its generation, it will never have the larger audience appeal of the Buick GN or e30 M3. Much as though I wish my S4 would appreciate, the reality is that it's not going to happen.

My TCCOA iTrader Rating: (44 / 100% w/ 50+ transactions)

24 Hours of Lemons 2017 Sear Pointless Organizer's Choice
2018 Upgrade: does your TBIRD make Fritos? Mine does
http://goo.gl/csaet4
S4gunn is offline  
post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-01-2018, 02:21 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Switzerland
Age: 41
Posts: 30
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
Where are you located?

I had a 1985 Cougar XR-7, same engine, no intercooler, less power. It was a fun car, but I'd have trouble spending $23000 on one even if it only had 800 miles on the odometer.

I inherited a 10 year old Crown Victoria that had 15,000 miles on it when my grandmother passed away. I drove it 1500 miles home to Minnesota from Texas, and it creaked and groaned over every bump due to the rubber bushings deteriorating. I did end up replacing the soft lines on the brakes, the suspension bushings (the ones that were greasable were OK for the most part though) and the fuel pump and fuel filter due to the very old gas that didn't go through the tank much wearing out the pump.

All told, it wasn't expensive, as I did the work myself, but it was a free car so I didn't mind so much. If I were to buy what is essentially a new car, at new car pricing, and have to do that work, it'd upset me.
I'm located in Switzerland. Since the seller is a garage owner I expect him to do all that work and hand me over the car in mint condition with the the rubber parts replaced with new ones. We have a very pedantic motor vehicle department which doesn't allow cars in too bad shape on the roads. As I would get it freshly licensed it should be OK from that point of view as well.

Of course the price tag is difficult to discuss. Since the last car like this I saw being sold on ebay (it was also discussed briefly on this forum) was much more pricey, I think the price might be OK IF I get it under conditions mentioned above?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
Well if it is your dream car, and you can swing the purchase price, and you have an indoor storage location for it, then I would say try to get it. Those are quite difficult to find without rust issues even here in the US, so I have to imagine that in Europe it would be even harder, and like I said, all the issues that are going to come up are much cheaper and easier to fix than rust repair. Worst case, you could hang onto it for a few years and probably sell it for a profit.
You're right, in about fifteen years that have been watching the T-Bird market here this is the first Turbo Coupe that has appeared so far. I'm not sure if I can ever sell it with a profit, as hardly anyone is interested in cars like that around here. Some people laugh at mit '97 T-Bird already!! If people are interested here in an american car it must be a V8 as this is rare around here and has power and sound. Some classic car collectors have Americans like Mustangs or Cadillacs from the 60's; the car you see the most on our roads is definitely the new Mustang.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T6Rocket View Post
That could be a really cool car, and if well bought, be a decent investment. It should only go up in value.

However, we need pictures!

Al
This the only picture I got so far, I will take some when I'm there to test drive it. The color is not quite my thing (I think a TC must be black) even though it might be cool, it's difficult to judge on a picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
Yeah, this wasn't a good investment for the original owner. How much did he enjoy having an 3380LB paperweight in his garage?

Will you enjoy the same even if you are getting a "discount" off of what it would have cost new + not storing it for 31 years? I presume that you are going to pay cash for this car since I'm be shocked if someone would be willing to finance this old a car.
Cash yes. I'm also wondering why the original owner never drove it, I will investigate about that and the history of the car in general.
Quote:
Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
Q: Are there other places you can spend your money?
Sure, always... but I don't have that much, so... But I always intended to buy a classic T-Bird one day (probably when retired) but I was more thinking about a '65 which I like a lot. But a '87 is a special opportunity which might never return again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
PS. Even if this car is kinda of cool for its generation, it will never have the larger audience appeal of the Buick GN or e30 M3. Much as though I wish my S4 would appreciate, the reality is that it's not going to happen.
That doesn't matter to me, the car would be for me and no audience necessary... I would take it out for a drive every other weekend with good weather and enjoy driving it. Saying this, it does feel a bit odd to spend that kind of money for that... I haven't decided yet, I'll have to drive it first, maybe I'll be disappointed, maybe blown away, who knows.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg download.jpg (128.7 KB, 11 views)

Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 02-10-2018 at 11:15 AM. Reason: Merge Posts
Fab Bird is offline  
post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-01-2018, 08:16 AM
PostWhore
 
T6Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,686
I like that color! Have not seen it before on a TC.

Obviously, the car is missing at least one wheel center cap. Hopefully they have them.

Is the car an auto or manual? Manual would be more collectible, and the automatics didn't have as much HP.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 78k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 CVPI- Brenda's car - 71k miles
Previous Fords:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years, 220k miles
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years, 206k miles
T6Rocket is offline  
post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-01-2018, 09:34 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Switzerland
Age: 41
Posts: 30
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by T6Rocket View Post
I like that color! Have not seen it before on a TC.

Obviously, the car is missing at least one wheel center cap. Hopefully they have them.

Is the car an auto or manual? Manual would be more collectible, and the automatics didn't have as much HP.

Al
Yes, the color is certainly something different! The missing center cap stroke me too, they must be difficult to get hold of. It's become difficult already on my '97 I have those from a '95 Taurus on one side which have a slightly different color if you look closely.
Hmmm, I didn't know know there were automatic TC's. I always assumed they must have been manual only. What is the difference in horsepower, do you know? If it's an automatic my interest in buying it will decrease heavily.
Fab Bird is offline  
post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-01-2018, 10:26 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tinton Falls, NJ
Age: 36
Posts: 7,388
Garage
Send a message via AIM to MadMikeyL
The manual was rated at 190hp, the automatic I think was 155hp. Basically they limited the boost to only 10psi on the automatic, but went to 15psi on the manual.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
-"Your buddy Mike is INSANE!" -ClintD's dad
MadMikeyL is offline  
post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-01-2018, 03:44 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
S4gunn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SF, CA
Age: 40
Posts: 2,559
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian View Post
Cash yes. I'm also wondering why the original owner never drove it, I will investigate about that and the history of the car in general.

Sure, always... but I don't have that much, so... But I always intended to buy a classic T-Bird one day (probably when retired) but I was more thinking about a '65 which I like a lot. But a '87 is a special opportunity which might never return again.

That doesn't matter to me, the car would be for me and no audience necessary... I would take it out for a drive every other weekend with good weather and enjoy driving it. Saying this, it does feel a bit odd to spend that kind of money for that... I haven't decided yet, I'll have to drive it first, maybe I'll be disappointed, maybe blown away, who knows.
Sure, this car is unique in its mileage (and I would want to confirm that by checking vehicle registration records to see if there's any indications of a rollback) but classic 60s car pricing is not doing so well as their main market is getting too old to drive (and/or dying).

It seems like a concours quality 65 Tbird is in the same price range as this 87 TC.... and if it's concours quality, all of the potential repair issues are taken care of compared to this time capsule car.

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuati...1?yearRange=15

My TCCOA iTrader Rating: (44 / 100% w/ 50+ transactions)

24 Hours of Lemons 2017 Sear Pointless Organizer's Choice
2018 Upgrade: does your TBIRD make Fritos? Mine does
http://goo.gl/csaet4
S4gunn is offline  
post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-02-2018, 08:21 AM
Bird-Aholic
 
Natesriv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Kansas City
Age: 49
Posts: 584
Garage
I'd change the tires (old rubber is no good), the belts, all fluids and I'd have the chassis thoroughly checked for rotted busings, regrease everything and BABY THE SHIT OUT OF THE ENGINE FOR THE 1ST 500 MILES.

And in the meantime, enjoy this

God created Arakis to train the faithful... One cannot go against the word of God.........
Natesriv is offline  
post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-02-2018, 09:04 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Switzerland
Age: 41
Posts: 30
Garage
LOL, yes sounds like a plan! :-) I know this video, nice one, there are not too many about the TC on Youtube.
Fab Bird is offline  
post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-02-2018, 10:13 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: fantasy land
Posts: 575
When do you plan to check the Bird out?
Those TCs are one of the very few 4cyl car I would own...
I was looking at one but decided on my m8 instead..
Those 2.3 engines are pretty cool..
Do the autos use an aod trans?
94badbird is offline  
post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-02-2018, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Switzerland
Age: 41
Posts: 30
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94badbird View Post
When do you plan to check the Bird out?
Those TCs are one of the very few 4cyl car I would own...
I was looking at one but decided on my m8 instead..
Those 2.3 engines are pretty cool..
Do the autos use an aod trans?
I have an appointment with the seller next Thursday, it's quite a drive so I couldn't just turn up there to have a look.
Same here, this is pretty much the only 4cyl I would consider to own, the turbo makes it totally different, even some F1 cars in the 80's had 4-cylinders with over 1'000hp thanks to the turbo... fascinating, no idea why it never really became "the thing". They sound cool too!

Unfortunately I don't know if it is an automatic, I sure hope it's manual. I think turbos have to be manual since you need control over the turbo lag. And 40hp less is quite a drag as well... it surely could be tuned up but it would still be an automatic...
Fab Bird is offline  
post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-02-2018, 11:12 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tinton Falls, NJ
Age: 36
Posts: 7,388
Garage
Send a message via AIM to MadMikeyL
The automatic TC's used the A4LD, which is basically a C3 with an overdrive gear added. That trans will break if you sneeze too hard, hence why the power was dialed back.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
-"Your buddy Mike is INSANE!" -ClintD's dad
MadMikeyL is offline  
post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-02-2018, 11:43 AM
PostWhore
 
Woodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Duluth, MN
Age: 44
Posts: 1,864
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian View Post
I have an appointment with the seller next Thursday, it's quite a drive so I couldn't just turn up there to have a look.
Same here, this is pretty much the only 4cyl I would consider to own, the turbo makes it totally different, even some F1 cars in the 80's had 4-cylinders with over 1'000hp thanks to the turbo... fascinating, no idea why it never really became "the thing". They sound cool too!

Unfortunately I don't know if it is an automatic, I sure hope it's manual. I think turbos have to be manual since you need control over the turbo lag. And 40hp less is quite a drag as well... it surely could be tuned up but it would still be an automatic...
Why doesn't the seller have that information in the advertising for the car?
Before wasting a long trip, why not call them on the phone to find out if it's manual or automatic?

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
Woodman is offline  
post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-02-2018, 03:20 PM
PostWhore
 
T6Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,686
As with all old muscle cars, a manual will bring more $$ over an automatic every day of the week.

It wasn't just the boost they lowered, they used a different cam with the auto, IIRC.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 78k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 CVPI- Brenda's car - 71k miles
Previous Fords:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years, 220k miles
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years, 206k miles
T6Rocket is offline  
post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-02-2018, 03:45 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
S4gunn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SF, CA
Age: 40
Posts: 2,559
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian View Post
no idea why it never really became "the thing". They sound cool too!

Unfortunately I don't know if it is an automatic, I sure hope it's manual. I think turbos have to be manual since you need control over the turbo lag. And 40hp less is quite a drag as well... it surely could be tuned up but it would still be an automatic...
1) turbo 4cyl cars HAVE become the thing. Have you seen the product line-ups from Mercedes, Nissan, Porsche, Kia/Hyundai, and Honda? They are dominated by small 4cyl turbos making >200HP. While some are tuned for 300+ HP and require premium gas, others like the Hyundai can make 270+ HP on regular.

2) IMO, the presence/absence of lag, all has to do with the tuning. Modern 4cylT cars with electronically controller transmissions are setup to feel very "linear". In comparison, I think you are right to suspect that any/all turbocharged engines from the 80s (outside of perhaps rally cars with antilag) will be really laggy and that (plus the 50HP detune) will make this a bit of a dissapointment for you.

Personally, even if it was your dream car, I'd lean towards paying a fraction of that price for a low (but not 800mi) Turbo Coupe with a manual.

My TCCOA iTrader Rating: (44 / 100% w/ 50+ transactions)

24 Hours of Lemons 2017 Sear Pointless Organizer's Choice
2018 Upgrade: does your TBIRD make Fritos? Mine does
http://goo.gl/csaet4
S4gunn is offline  
post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-03-2018, 06:02 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Switzerland
Age: 41
Posts: 30
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
Why doesn't the seller have that information in the advertising for the car?
Before wasting a long trip, why not call them on the phone to find out if it's manual or automatic?
The seller has only given little information, the one picture above, miles, engine displacement, cylinders and hp. Judging from hp it must be automatic even though it's not correct... the reason why I didn't ask is because he states in the ad that he will only let people with serious buying interest driving it. And I don't want to be rejected because he knows that I'd prefer a manual gearbox. And I do want to drive it anyway, might be my only chance and I could like it so much that I buy it even with the automatic, who knows. But only for a much lower prize.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
1) turbo 4cyl cars HAVE become the thing. Have you seen the product line-ups from Mercedes, Nissan, Porsche, Kia/Hyundai, and Honda? They are dominated by small 4cyl turbos making >200HP. While some are tuned for 300+ HP and require premium gas, others like the Hyundai can make 270+ HP on regular.
Not really, I don't follow the line-ups of these brands. I just don't know a single person that drives a turbo, yet when I was a kid my old man, friends of his and whole bunch of other people drove around in Fiat's, Renault's, Saab's etc. all equipped with turbos. Even Ferrari's & Maserati's had turbo's!! Maybe it's different in Europe and the US of A...

Quote:
Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
Personally, even if it was your dream car, I'd lean towards paying a fraction of that price for a low (but not 800mi) Turbo Coupe with a manual.
That is not so easy in Europe, this is the first time in my adult life that I see one advertised in Switzerland. Maybe in Germany one pops up from time to time but rarely as well. But buying there or going to the US would make it very expensive as well. I would have to check the market and see how much I have to expect in terms of effort and costs to import one.

Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 02-10-2018 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Merge Posts
Fab Bird is offline  
post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-09-2018, 05:22 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Switzerland
Age: 41
Posts: 30
Garage
So I went to check this T-Bird out. It's in enormously good shape, looks shiny and new. Even the floor matts are still in the plastic, no rust and has never seen the sun or rain. The rubber sealing all around this beautiful specimen feels soft and it started immediately and the engine looks new as well. It has been stored with all fluids in it (the owner said that the oil is still the one with which the car was delivered with). The fuel pump was changed but the rest is as it was delivered 30 years ago...!

The ride was horrible though because the tyres are 30 years old too, felt like square cement wheels... otherwise everything was working fine; smooth gear shifts, all electronic stuff (windows, seats, antenna etc.) worked fine. No warning lights either. The only thing that didn't work was the cruise control: When any of the three resume, set/accelerate & coast were pressed the car accelerated strongly, like when the set/accel button is pressed and held.

I didn't go flat out with it due to the scary feeling tyres but the engine revved up nicely but as expected, power isn't that impressive with the automatic transmission. I would surely tune that up to 15psi in case I buy it.

If anyone has thoughts, let me know it and enjoy the pictures!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20180208_1629495.jpg (2.07 MB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180208_1630103n.jpg (2.78 MB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180208_1629178n.jpg (2.99 MB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180208_1629314n.jpg (3.12 MB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180208_1631217n.jpg (3.75 MB, 7 views)
Fab Bird is offline  
post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-09-2018, 05:48 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: fantasy land
Posts: 575
My thoughts:
How much do you like it? Can you see your self keeping it and what plans do you have for it?
If you do love this car, not those cars nut the very car you drove..if you love it because it's a gamble spending that kind of $ on an old car even if it has 1 Mile it's still all 30 year old stuff. But like me ,I personally prefer 90s cars and early 2000s. If I had the $ I would drop it on a few rides if they ever came along..
If it is your car . Set an amount you feel is good for both you and throw him a low ball offer just to test the waters...you never know he might just want to wash his hands of it...
94badbird is offline  
post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-09-2018, 07:22 AM
PostWhore
 
T6Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,686
The car looks really nice!

I wouldn't turn the boost up - there is a reason Ford kept it low with that automatic. Unless you beef up the tranny first. You have to figure on it being a "cruiser", not a "bruiser".

Still having the original oil is ridiculous. What are they trying to prove? I would get that oil out of there ASAP.

If you really want a fast car: a built 4RW70 (if it fits), a converter, and turn the boost to 18 and add a free flowing exhaust, the car would really scream! You could keep the stock parts if you ever want to sell it.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 78k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 CVPI- Brenda's car - 71k miles
Previous Fords:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years, 220k miles
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years, 206k miles

Last edited by T6Rocket; 02-09-2018 at 07:34 AM.
T6Rocket is offline  
post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-09-2018, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Switzerland
Age: 41
Posts: 30
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94badbird View Post
My thoughts:
How much do you like it? Can you see your self keeping it and what plans do you have for it?

If it is your car . Set an amount you feel is good for both you and throw him a low ball offer just to test the waters...you never know he might just want to wash his hands of it...
I like it a lot, I loved just looking at it when I was there. It's a bit smaller than I expected, at least the width. My '97 looks much more massive, the TC looks very nimble on the other hand, quite likable! The color is much nicer than I expected in real life and the black line all around the car is cool. The only downside is the automatic transmission but this is a pretty severe downside because I would take the bird out for a fly once or twice a month only and then I would drive to the countryside and would like to enjoy the manual. It's different on an everyday car, then I prefer an automatic.

I threw him an offer already but he declined... he is a garage owner who sells it for a friend of his. The guy inherited the car as the original owner imported it in '87, never had time for it and then died. So the seller said that he will have to invest a not yet clear amount of cash for new tyres, tune up, and the modifications necessary to pass the examination of the Swiss DMV and then the examination itself. I'll have to think it over several times but this price with the automatic could be the reason for me pulling out of it in the end.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T6Rocket View Post
The car looks really nice!

I wouldn't turn the boost up - there is a reason Ford kept it low with that automatic. Unless you beef up the tranny first. You have to figure on it being a "cruiser", not a "bruiser".

Still having the original oil is ridiculous. What are they trying to prove? I would get that oil out of there ASAP.

If you really want a fast car: a built 4RW70 (if it fits), a converter, and turn the boost to 18 and add a free flowing exhaust, the car would really scream! You could keep the stock parts if you ever want to sell it.

Al
Very good tips, thanks man! I will look into this if I decide to buy it.

Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 02-10-2018 at 11:12 AM. Reason: Merge Posts
Fab Bird is offline  
post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-09-2018, 09:08 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
theterminator93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio
Age: 31
Posts: 8,995
Garage
No 4R70W will fit the 2.3 I4 block.

OP - Sounds like your tastes are similar to mine. I would love to have a '66 and a TC someday as well. It looks really nice but it's not going to be a "buy it and drive it" despite the mileage and condition - much as you've noticed. Fluids, suspension (tires and all other rubbers), and some electrical gremlins (oxidation due to age possibly) will be there on any old car, regardless of mileage.

If it was me though... I would probably end up taking it home. You said yourself these are incredibly rare. What you see now... you probably won't see again - and if you do, it will probably be more expensive. But with it being the auto flavor, if that is a deal breaker... then you gotta know your own limits and when to move on.

-Brandon
97 Laser Red Thunderbird LX 159k, Stage 2 4.6L 2v N/A | 300 BHP (255 RWHP, 290 RWTQ) | 13.95 @ 97.58 | Build details | Pics at the Lorain Assembly plant
98 Black Mark VIII 150k, stock daily driver
07 Redfire Fusion V6 SEL 176k, for the wife
Gone but not forgotten: 96 Mark VIII, 94 Cougar XR7, 93 Mark VIII

TCCoA's resident pilot since 2014
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the world with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return. -Leonardo da Vinci
theterminator93 is offline  
post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-09-2018, 01:00 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
S4gunn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SF, CA
Age: 40
Posts: 2,559
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian View Post
Not really, I don't follow the line-ups of these brands. I just don't know a single person that drives a turbo, yet when I was a kid my old man, friends of his and whole bunch of other people drove around in Fiat's, Renault's, Saab's etc. all equipped with turbos. Even Ferrari's & Maserati's had turbo's!! Maybe it's different in Europe and the US of A...



That is not so easy in Europe, this is the first time in my adult life that I see one advertised in Switzerland. Maybe in Germany one pops up from time to time but rarely as well. But buying there or going to the US would make it very expensive as well. I would have to check the market and see how much I have to expect in terms of effort and costs to import one.
Q: Out of curiosity, where are you based in Europe?
My understanding from my coworkers (my company has folks in Ireland, France, and Sweden that I work with regularly so we BS about random topics) is that registration taxes for vehicles were for a long time more commonly determined by engine size vs any other factor. Lots of these places now move towards a CO2 emissions-based model but for a long time this displacement tax drove demand for smaller displacement, turbo'd cars. I'm a but surprised that none of your friends have some kind of small turbo'd hatchback (like a VW).

In comparison, here in the US registration costs are assessed by value (ex: california) or weight (ex: Texas
It's only recently (last 10 years) that we've seen more mass market US cars in the jump on the turbo bandwagon.

My TCCOA iTrader Rating: (44 / 100% w/ 50+ transactions)

24 Hours of Lemons 2017 Sear Pointless Organizer's Choice
2018 Upgrade: does your TBIRD make Fritos? Mine does
http://goo.gl/csaet4
S4gunn is offline  
post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-10-2018, 10:26 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Switzerland
Age: 41
Posts: 30
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
Q: Out of curiosity, where are you based in Europe?
My understanding from my coworkers (my company has folks in Ireland, France, and Sweden that I work with regularly so we BS about random topics) is that registration taxes for vehicles were for a long time more commonly determined by engine size vs any other factor. Lots of these places now move towards a CO2 emissions-based model but for a long time this displacement tax drove demand for smaller displacement, turbo'd cars. I'm a but surprised that none of your friends have some kind of small turbo'd hatchback (like a VW).

In comparison, here in the US registration costs are assessed by value (ex: california) or weight (ex: Texas
It's only recently (last 10 years) that we've seen more mass market US cars in the jump on the turbo bandwagon.
I live in Switzerland. We pay taxes by weight these days, it used to be by displacement but that's already some time ago (10 years or so). Most Turbo's on our streets are Diesel but they're all crap IMO (Diesel in general!)... but they came out of fashion as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theterminator93 View Post
No 4R70W will fit the 2.3 I4 block.

OP - Sounds like your tastes are similar to mine. I would love to have a '66 and a TC someday as well. It looks really nice but it's not going to be a "buy it and drive it" despite the mileage and condition - much as you've noticed. Fluids, suspension (tires and all other rubbers), and some electrical gremlins (oxidation due to age possibly) will be there on any old car, regardless of mileage.
Nice to know that I'm not the only one with that taste. Yesterday night I showed the pictures to some friends they all found it a weird looking car but somewhat interesting. Probably because it's so unique. You gotta know that the TC (or any other T-Bird for that matter) were never officially imported to Europe, so "normal" people from here have never seen this car in their entire life! It wasn't featured in a major movie either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theterminator93 View Post
If it was me though... I would probably end up taking it home. You said yourself these are incredibly rare. What you see now... you probably won't see again - and if you do, it will probably be more expensive. But with it being the auto flavor, if that is a deal breaker... then you gotta know your own limits and when to move on.
You've got some good points there, thanks!

Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 02-10-2018 at 11:11 AM. Reason: Merge Posts
Fab Bird is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome