new car, runs awful? - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-26-2005, 10:39 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: philly
Age: 35
Posts: 47
new car, runs awful?

Ok well i picked up this mighty nice 87TC only problem is it is running like crap. I was told by the guy, that he took it to the dealership and they told him it needed a TFI, well i replaced it, along with a dist. just in case the gears were shot. But it did nothing, it had codes for a vam so i replaced it, got rid of the codes but still run awful. Compression is good and almost exactly the same on all four cylinders, fuel pressure is at 35, cam timing is dead on, spark timing is 10 btdc, i also replaced the tps and is set at .9v. Its running extremely rich and i can't understand why, i can drive it back and forth to work but it has no power and takes a while to get up to speed. I am completely stumped as to why its running so poorly, my last thoughts are either ECM or Cat? Please anyone suggestions, i need help!
xturbocoupex is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-27-2005, 01:36 AM
Chapter Director Coordinator
Moderator
 
jamesD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kissimmee
Age: 37
Posts: 6,253
i dont remember.. did 87s have a MAF? or were they MAP?

if you have a MAF sensor, unplug see if it runs better


I bust ARP bolts by hand...

If Guns kill people, then...
...pencils miss spel werds
...cars make people drive drunk
...spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat
~Gun Owners of America
jamesD is offline  
post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-27-2005, 08:58 AM
Seasoned Veteran Poster
 
Lazania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Rochester, NY
Age: 36
Posts: 926
Im almost sure its a map sensor up to 88

2011 Mustang GT Premium 6spd
Current Modifications:
C&L Cold Air Intake
American Racing Long Tube Headers
Catted X pipe
MBRP Mufflers
Axle Exchange Aluminum Drive Shaft
Custom Street Tuned
Lazania is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-27-2005, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: philly
Age: 35
Posts: 47
The 87 has a map sensor and a vam, the early version of a maf sensor. Apparently the map sensor was also replaced before i got it too. Like i said pretty much every sensor has been replaced, i just picked up and ecm yesterday, but it didn't work. So i have to return it and get another. Any other suggestions on this thing?
xturbocoupex is offline  
post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-27-2005, 12:28 PM
PostWhore
 
Blue LS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Manitoba
Age: 35
Posts: 1,890
Have you checked the plugs and wires? Also the fuel and air filters. Simple things but they can cause problems.
Blue LS is offline  
post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-27-2005, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: philly
Age: 35
Posts: 47
ok, just to let everyone know, before i get anymore responses, i've done all the basics. The car is running extremely rich, and i can't figure out the problem, it has no power when trying to accelerate and its barely running. This is a list of everything that has been done: Filters, air fuel and oil. Ignition, plugs wires cap rotor distributor control module coil. Sensors, vam, bap, tps. Timing is set at 10 btdc, crank timing is dead on, i have 120psi across all four cylinders, and 35 psi at the rail. My next step is to replace the ECM, if anyone else has any idea as to what else my problem could be please respond.
xturbocoupex is offline  
post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-27-2005, 08:26 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Middleton N.H.
Age: 53
Posts: 12
Possibly a plugged catalytic converter. Does it run worse after the engine has warmed up? If so then it probably is plugged. Some garages have a gauge to test the back pressure of your exhaust system by removing your oxygen sensor and screwing in a gauge. Worth a shot.
DARYLLD is offline  
post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-27-2005, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: philly
Age: 35
Posts: 47
yeah those were my last 2 options, ECM or cat, those were the only things left i could think of. I've tried everything, im gonna unhook the downpipe tommorow and see what happens, cuz im stil waiting on a new ECM. So hopefully it'll work, otherwise im all out of ideas. Thanks
xturbocoupex is offline  
post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-28-2005, 12:37 AM
5th Gear Poster
 
Hobohuey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Catlettsburg, KY
Age: 33
Posts: 443
I second the cat, while your at it pop a vacuume gauge on the vacuume tree and see what kind of vacuume your pulling. It sould be about 18 inhg if you dont have any leaks.

'95 T-Bird - Light green, 98 Crown Vic Police Interceptor Engine, 96 Grand Marquis Tranny, 3.27 Trac-loc, Ford MotorSports Trans cooler, Sport Springs, Blaupunkt Richmond, Memphis Car Audio 5x7's, Cerwin-Vega 150.2 powering mids/highs, Volgenhag 4-channel 1200w amp (junk), 2 Memphis Car Audio 12's

'88 T-bird turbo - Silver, 5spd, Rebuilt Engine, t-3 .63, Custom FMIC, Bobs Big Log, Bob's 3" Elbow, Walbro 255lph, Maximum Motorsports Coil-over Kit, Bilstein HD struts, Hypercoil 200# 14" Springs, Caster/Camber Plates, Ranger Roller, Gillis Valve at 20#, 3in. Side-Dump Exhaust, NGK Iridium XI Plugs, Jacobs C-4 Coil, High Volume Oil Pump, MAX PSI Oil Lines, Poly Bushings, 245/50/R16 Nitto 450's, Autocross car
Hobohuey is offline  
post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-28-2005, 04:59 AM
3rd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Gastonia, NC
Posts: 135
Is the turbo spinning properly? I had a Turbo Mustang and when the turbo stopped working, the effect was dramatic. Also check to see that the waste gate is functioning properly.

Rocky

"It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it!";D

Don't sweat the petty stuff,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and don't pet the sweaty stuff!
pileit1 is offline  
post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-28-2005, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: philly
Age: 35
Posts: 47
yeah its pulling 18" of vacuum, the turbo only boosts to about 5-7 lbs, but i believe thats because of the way its running. Ok guys thanks im gonna pop of the downpipe today and see what happens.
xturbocoupex is offline  
post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-28-2005, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: philly
Age: 35
Posts: 47
ok, update, pulled the downpipe, it started a little easier, but it still runs like ****, it idles really rough, and i can't get it above 3500 rpms, im still waitin on an ecm so we'll see what happens. Im really starting to suspect the ECM because i can run it disconnect the act, vam, bap, o2, tps, and it still runs exactly the same. So if there are any other suggestions im open, cuz this thing has got me stumped.
xturbocoupex is offline  
post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-29-2005, 02:12 PM
3rd Gear Poster
 
TurboCoupe50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Chesapeake, Va
Posts: 172
Has it been scaned for codes???

And a FYI for everyone..... The TCs use a Vane Air Meter(VAM) and a BP sensor that looks like a MAP but does not have vaccum connected to it.

1988 Turbo Coupe... 5.0 conversion... AOD... 3.73s
[email protected] W/90hp shot.. [email protected]

1988 Turbo Coupe... White, 5.0 with Trick Flow heads
1988 Turbo Coupe... Bright Red
1993 F150 Lightning... Black.. #249 of 5276
TurboCoupe50 is offline  
post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-29-2005, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: philly
Age: 35
Posts: 47
yes the only code was a code 64 which is low voltage vam, but the vam has been replaced, so i can't think of anything else, looks like its goin to the shop the week
xturbocoupex is offline  
post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-29-2005, 06:14 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lebanon, PA 17046
Age: 50
Posts: 9
Just have to check, but you did remove the spout to check and set the timing? Is the orange wire from the harness grounded on the turbo? This is the o2 ground and will cause the car to run rich if not grounded. Does the car run the same if the ECT sensor(between injectors 2 and 3 on the lower intake) is disconnected?

88TC mods: SDS Digital Fuel Injection,
ported & polished big valve head(1.89/1.59), .500 lift roller cam,
custom upper and ported lower intakes, 60-1 stage III .63 turbo,
powerstroke intercooler, 60mm throttle body, 75pph injectors,
Walboro 255HP pump, Kirban adj. fuel reg., ATR header,
3" exhaust with Dynomax Ultraflow muffler, MSD 6al, MSD coil,
MSD Launch Control, MSD 8.5mm wires, K&N filter,
Star stage III clutch, Greddy Profec B boost controller,
Weld Draglites with M/T ET Street 26x11.5/15
Glenn 88TC is offline  
post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-29-2005, 06:16 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lebanon, PA 17046
Age: 50
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by xturbocoupex
yes the only code was a code 64 which is low voltage vam, but the vam has been replaced, so i can't think of anything else, looks like its goin to the shop the week
Did the replaced vam eliminate the code 64?

88TC mods: SDS Digital Fuel Injection,
ported & polished big valve head(1.89/1.59), .500 lift roller cam,
custom upper and ported lower intakes, 60-1 stage III .63 turbo,
powerstroke intercooler, 60mm throttle body, 75pph injectors,
Walboro 255HP pump, Kirban adj. fuel reg., ATR header,
3" exhaust with Dynomax Ultraflow muffler, MSD 6al, MSD coil,
MSD Launch Control, MSD 8.5mm wires, K&N filter,
Star stage III clutch, Greddy Profec B boost controller,
Weld Draglites with M/T ET Street 26x11.5/15
Glenn 88TC is offline  
post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-29-2005, 10:15 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: philly
Age: 35
Posts: 47
no, actually i had about 4 vam codes it eliminated all but the code 64. And the orange wire from the o2 i believe is grounded on the turbo, the ect i did not pull, lemme check that actually and see what happens. Thanks
xturbocoupex is offline  
post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-29-2005, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: philly
Age: 35
Posts: 47
ok i pulled the connector off of the ect, and the ect basically fell apart, but after i pulled it off the car ran worse, just about dyng. And my ect is now in pieces, so i gotta replace it anyway, but just wondering if maybe that could be the cause
xturbocoupex is offline  
post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-30-2005, 03:19 PM
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 31
Posts: 3,549
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by xturbocoupex
ok i pulled the connector off of the ect, and the ect basically fell apart, but after i pulled it off the car ran worse, just about dyng. And my ect is now in pieces, so i gotta replace it anyway, but just wondering if maybe that could be the cause
It could absolutely be the problem.
MaddMartigan is offline  
post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-30-2005, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: philly
Age: 35
Posts: 47
alrighty, i guess i'll go nab me one and see what happens, thanks
xturbocoupex is offline  
post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-30-2005, 05:27 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lebanon, PA 17046
Age: 50
Posts: 9
The ECT can definitely cause fuel problems. Let me know what you find.

88TC mods: SDS Digital Fuel Injection,
ported & polished big valve head(1.89/1.59), .500 lift roller cam,
custom upper and ported lower intakes, 60-1 stage III .63 turbo,
powerstroke intercooler, 60mm throttle body, 75pph injectors,
Walboro 255HP pump, Kirban adj. fuel reg., ATR header,
3" exhaust with Dynomax Ultraflow muffler, MSD 6al, MSD coil,
MSD Launch Control, MSD 8.5mm wires, K&N filter,
Star stage III clutch, Greddy Profec B boost controller,
Weld Draglites with M/T ET Street 26x11.5/15
Glenn 88TC is offline  
post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-30-2005, 08:44 PM
2nd Gear Poster
 
SLEEPER T-BIRD 87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TENNESEE
Posts: 77
Send a message via AIM to SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 Send a message via Yahoo to SLEEPER T-BIRD 87
unpug the vam and see how she does > it will go default when ya do this and genrally run better just do not drive it in boost cause it will be super lean.


if that dont do anything i vote cts sensor also

1987 TURBO COUPE -- 429/c-6 .headers,motorsports cam,ported heads,750 holley,high rise intake,electric waterpump,big shot plate kit,much much more!!!!!!
new numbers coming soon!!!


1988 5.0 BIRD ------ BEATER
long tubes,2.5 h pipe hi flow cats,mac flowpath mufflers,h.o intake/throttlebody swap,underdrives,short belt, electric fan, etc.............................
SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 is offline  
post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-02-2005, 08:41 AM
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: neenah
Age: 63
Posts: 65
tc problems

mine did the same thing. it ran rich to the point that the exhaust manifold glowed cherry red. I went through the same stuff that you are presently going through. it turned out to be a fuel pressure regulator. I had already taken it to a shop. It cost around 60.00 to fix it. I hope that helps you. By the way it is a real easy repair as it is right on the top it"s held on with two screws and a no brainer to replace.
tc88 is offline  
post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-02-2005, 10:29 AM
3rd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Howell, Mi
Age: 60
Posts: 122
Send a message via Yahoo to cougarman
cougarman is offline  
post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-02-2005, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: philly
Age: 35
Posts: 47
[QUOTE=xturbocoupex]and 35 psi at the rail. QUOTE] So no its not the regulator, its definitely electrical, but today is the moment of truth, im pickin up the ect so wish me luck, otherwise, to the shop she goes.
xturbocoupex is offline  
post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-04-2005, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: philly
Age: 35
Posts: 47
ok, update, got a coolant temp sensor, didn't do anything. Then checked the MAF, if i pull it off it runs like a champ, but then if i reconnect it, it runs like crap, i grabbed another one just in case, and i put it on, it still runs the same. It seems if i cover the intake hole just slightly, it runs amazing. Im assuming its reading too much air and its getting the right amount, and its just running way too rich. Well at least i know its electrical.... but i still don't know what it is? HELP PLEASE!
xturbocoupex is offline  
post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-05-2005, 07:12 AM
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 31
Posts: 3,549
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by xturbocoupex
ok, update, got a coolant temp sensor, didn't do anything. Then checked the MAF, if i pull it off it runs like a champ, but then if i reconnect it, it runs like crap, i grabbed another one just in case, and i put it on, it still runs the same. It seems if i cover the intake hole just slightly, it runs amazing. Im assuming its reading too much air and its getting the right amount, and its just running way too rich. Well at least i know its electrical.... but i still don't know what it is? HELP PLEASE!
Sounds like you have it ironed out then. A bad MAF would certainly cause you problems.

BTW, if you replace the MAF, be sure and unplug the battery so that the EEC memory is cleared and the stored info is cleared.
MaddMartigan is offline  
post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2005, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: philly
Age: 35
Posts: 47
Ok ladies and gents, i finally figured it out, after a greuling two weeks i decided to take the valve cover off and inspect the head, and much to my surprise, a little ol' cam follower was lying on the head out of its place. I was getting no fire on cylinder 3, didn't see that one at all. Well thanks for your help, now its time to enjoy the TC.
xturbocoupex is offline  
post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2005, 04:44 PM
4th Gear Poster
 
DakotaEpic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: AZ
Age: 33
Posts: 236
Glad to hear you got it running well. And hey atleast now you also have a slew of new sensors/parts in it.
DakotaEpic is offline  
post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2005, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: philly
Age: 35
Posts: 47
yeah and apparently the turbo, engine, and trans were all rebuilt 40k ago so, it all pretty new now, i just gotta grab some hoses for my intercooler piping.
xturbocoupex is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome