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What suspesion parts are recommended??

13K views 56 replies 20 participants last post by  crash00527 
#1 ·
#3 ·
Napa "Master Ride" suspension parts

FWIW, I replaced both upper ball joints (the came as entire upper control arms) from Napa for about $60 per side, within 2 months the passenger side was squawking like before I changed them. On the positive side, I didn't call Napa for about 4 months cause I figured they weren't gonna replace them but I was wrong. Napa said bring it in, we'll give you a new one. Not bad considering they are over 6 months on the car now; of course, if I'd read the warranty part, they're guaranteed for a year - DOH!

http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?A=MRC10764_0186298555&An=599001+101995+50026+2026030
 
#7 · (Edited)
FWIW, I replaced both upper ball joints (the came as entire upper control arms) from Napa for about $60 per side, within 2 months the passenger side was squawking like before I changed them. On the positive side, I didn't call Napa for about 4 months cause I figured they weren't gonna replace them but I was wrong. Napa said bring it in, we'll give you a new one. Not bad considering they are over 6 months on the car now; of course, if I'd read the warranty part, they're guaranteed for a year - DOH!

http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?A=MRC10764_0186298555&An=599001+101995+50026+2026030
Lots of China stuff is making its way to NAPA. They hide behind their brands like MCP or United Brake but you have to see the country of origin on the box (if it even means anything anymore). I have problems with their emergency/parking brake cables(Raybestos), they seem to seize up. They happily warranty it but its a pain to change every year or two. If you buy the cheap suspension parts there you are getting the rockauto cheapie "Service Grade" from the Raybestos/Mcquay Norris Family: http://www.affiniagroup.com/wps/portal/affiniagroup. The service grade is probably made overseas. Not the worst thing, but its a step up from the Ebay or Dorman quality that you get for cheap on Ebay. Autozone Duralast/Valucraft suspension stuff are the professional/service grade affina products. If you carefully match pictures to rockauto this can become apparent, the parts are usually in the exact same position and direction, bolts, etc. Even the part numbers match sometimes.

Not saying all aftermarket is bad, but they sometimes have to guess at product specs if they are not the OEM. Also, the lower priced parts are an excuse to cut corners on quality. If it lasts 6 months it did its job, most shops (like midas) warranty work for 4 months so parts like that are fine. In two years of normal driving most of those parts will fail, and by then people will just replace the part or have gotten rid of the car already. Usually suspension fails on cars that are nearing a decade in age or miles.

Moog(TRW)/Motorcraft are OEM suppliers who have access to original specs for these cars. When Motorcraft sells a part, they tell the manufacturer the quality they want and not the other way around. They also supply exact specs, and both companies test it and are responsible. M/C parts are used for Ford warranty repairs, so they are not looking for games and comebacks.

Advance auto still carries moog, its somewhat overpriced. Rockauto or a discount Ford parts dealer is your best bet. The ford parts guy here is moving to tasca parts, they have pretty good prices on stuff: http://www.tascafordparts.com/index.do
 
#4 ·
I have been having alot of problems with Napa parts lately. "Nascar Select Orbital" Batteries went through 2 in 6 weeks made em give me a full refund and bought a Optima.(after I proved My charging system was up to par) MY beamer has a vacuum controled fuel regulator. 3 bad before one worked. Im not going to napa anymore. I been going to advance auto and buying the "best" stuff they got. I got moog balljoints, timken bearings, spicer u-joints etc... etc.. been working out well plus they keep the warranty in the computer no reciept needed!!

Plus If im going the more expensive route id like tubular/perfomance stuff.
 
#5 ·
+1 for Advance Auto Parts....used to be an Autozone/NAPA fan but realized how bad NAPA parts/service was and AutoZone wasn't super nice....went to advance to get new sway bar end links, guy came out and helped me with my car for well over an hour in their parking lot, been going to AAP ever since. Oh and most parts from moog there have lifetime warranty :rolleyes:
 
#8 ·
I agree with you to a certain point, however companies don't purposely make bad/defective parts otherwise people wont buy and they go out of business plain and simple. There is many different materials and machine processes that may be use to make a part. Myself being in a field of quality assurance and distrubution in industrial products you have to realize that each process you add to a part increase the final cost of that product.
Now as a customer you may wish to just keep the car going for a couple more years,then you go with this certain product. This product might use mild steel as to its performance grade AL. Just depends what the customer wants. Your point you pay for what you get is a good rule of thumb when buying from the manufacture NOT the supplier. The supplier like nappa or rockauto just sell the product, they put there markup price on it and thats what it is. Nappa is more expensive because they have actual stores, rockauto doesn't. Therefore can just use distribution points to sell there products and ship worldwide, cutting operation cost. Now the manufacture doesn't say these products that are going to Nappa dont have to have the same quality as the ones going to rockauto. Wrong! The manufacture will ruin there brand name!

Now from parts coming into the US, like from china doesn't mean that there is NO quality. However you do need to teach the employees over there your standards so yes it may suffer a bit. Many companies use the 6sigma standard. The reason why companies move over seas is the fact labor is cheap. VERY cheap. Something that says made in China doesn't mean it stinks, what it is, the company is trying to make the same product for less without suffering quality and one aspect of that is what is called, lean manufacturing."Doing more with less." Now yes there is knock off brands out there and chances are you know you are buying a knock off brand becuase the site you are on.

Granted this message is long and some of it is opinionated and I am sorry but I just want to let people know. Hope this helps beamerboy.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Nope, they don't purposely make defective products (that is fraud) but they can cut corners here and there, use a softer steel etc. I had NAPA brake cables that had to be dremeled to fit an application (its a known issue on each unit). Then again, $20 vs $86 for a Ford one makes you think a bit, especially if its an older car. The same cable is also sold by Rockauto. Brake rotors are also similar, cheaper rotors may use a bit less of whatever in the steel, and will warp in sooner. Also the quality may be inconsistent, some rotors will exceed specs and others will be crap.

If their production cost is very low and the products expected life is a year or two, even if they have warranty claims they are just on the hook for another cheap part. The business model could even be computed on a 25% return rate. The actual cost for them on the China part may be $1. The bell curve will always allow some units to last long.

I know Dorman was selling bum camshaft synchronizes which were "close" in fitment to the original product. Also, they would disconnect and not allow the oil pump to spin. This problem was going on for over a YEAR, and they knew about it, and acknowledged it on forums! They ended up reimbursing some people for engines. I don't know how widespread it is, but its obviously a major design issue. No one who bought the original Motocraft part had any complaint except for the price. They will get another decade or more out of that unit.

ISO 9001/TQM/Six sigma is good to an extent, but just because you are certified doesn't mean you are creating a great product.

Remember that aftermarket parts are designed from original product samples in most cases, not real specs. They also generalize products like ball joints and may leave details off a specific application. So they are at a disadvantage there. I will also say there are crappy OEM parts too!

here is a video from ford that could explain some of this:
http://www.fordparts.com/Products/Chassis.aspx
________
 
#10 ·
I really aprpeciate all the input!! I guess what I really want to know is

1. Has anyone actually bought those eBay ones to see them in action?

2. Does anyone know where to get some nice quality/pro tubular ones

I plan on buying the moogs from Advance auto cause of the easy returns and replacement if I cant find something performancy or someone tell me the ones off eBay were pretty good!! I used to work for a company that practiced "Lean Manufacturing" really turned the company in the right direction I was impressed!! So I can appreciate your points.
 
#12 · (Edited)
From what I've seen on this board and MK8 boards low cost/ebay parts in general are a purchase people regret, then they go out and get Moog. There is a recent thread about someone who bought a cheap sway bar link, only to have it fail in 4 months. I don't even see a warranty for one of the vendors. The other is 6 months.



If you get lower control arms at Advance have them special order the TRW ones for the SC. They are 56$ each and give you the bushings for the LCA strut rod.

Lean manufacturing is ok if a company like Motorcraft does it, who is starting with a very high quality product. However if someone like Dorman does it, that is another story, and its a disaster.

These are cars are pushing 4000lbs, maybe those parts are good for smaller cars.I'm also curious if someone had luck with them on the tbird.
 
#11 ·
To my knowledge, nobody makes tubular upper arms for our cars. The way the factory one is, tubular probably wouldn't be much of a gain anyway since it probably wouldn't be any stiffer than the factory one, and maybe only marginally lighter.

I have no input on the ebay ones, except to say that for as cheap as you can get the ones from advance, it really isn't worth the risk of having to re-do it just to save $20 on the parts.
 
#13 ·
The cost of buying all this stuff from advance auto would tally up to $525. Quite a far shot from 20 bux.



MadMikeyL
To my knowledge, nobody makes tubular upper arms for our cars. The way the factory one is, tubular probably wouldn't be much of a gain anyway since it probably wouldn't be any stiffer than the factory one, and maybe only marginally lighter.


As for this I beleive your right I looked evrywhere for performance ones and just couldnt find it.

I appreciate evryones responces and input. I could also use some help on this thread http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=126410

I decided to just go ahead and buy all Moog stuff Lifetime guarantee is just too hard to give up no matter how much you save. Now to break the bad news t the wife :( !! Again thanka to all for there help!!

ps i guess this is BUMP ??
 
#15 · (Edited)
What if you buy some of your stuff from Rockauto(don't forget the 5% discount- search for it)? And The Ford Parts guy here? You wanted to buy from ebay at first!

The upper control arms are less than 100 bucks for 2 (Motorcraft- from jon here)
The lowers arms can be had from rockauto for around 120 (new bushings)
Moog(or Motorcraft) - 4 tie rods about $100 shipped from rockauto
Moog Sway bars links for $100/pr (maybe pick the raybestos ones for $60/pr)

So in the worse case you are around $400 bucks, the ebay junk cost $200, and you are getting control arms with new bushings. A shop would charge you $100/side to press in ball joints, so in essence there is no difference if you look at it that way.
 
#16 ·
Agreed ...stay away from ebay man...these parts are available through car part dealers, with return and warranties, I would use ebay for parts that you have to get used and are not produced anymore. However if you are hellbent on ebay, go for it and let us know the outcome of it...You might surprise us all
 
#19 ·
Okay so against everyones including my own I bout the Ebay ones here:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/THUN...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item35a221948c

I got mine for a few dollars less but for 180 shipped to the door it was a helluva deal, all the hardware is included, all ball joints and bushings are already installed and everything but the outer tie rods were O.E.BRAND, which I've used before and dont have complaints about. It also came with 1 yr. warranty. So since I am laid-off now and will be broke for a while this should get me through.

I couldn't believe all the stuff this came with!!

2x front Upper Control Arms complete with ball joints and bushings installed(no zircs)
2X front Lower Control Arms complete with ball joints and bushings installed(no zircs)
2X Inner Tie Rods complete with hardware
2X Outer Tie Rods complete with hardware
2x Sway Bar Links complete with hardware


Heres some pics:













Now I'm not trying to sell these to anybody. I just want you to see for yourself and make your own decision. I havent installed them yet so I cant vouch for fitment. I think they were the perfect solution for me, not knowing the cars history, and it having close to 200,00 miles its cheap insurance. My car has a "shimmy" when u crank the wheel all the way and move, its like the tires are out of round. I think its a ball joint, but with all thats in this kit, I'll Find out for sure!!
 
#25 ·




photos of supergordo's failed ebay worldsuspension lower control arm. Notice the snapped lower ball joint is smaller on the ebay piece than an oem replacement ball joint when it was removed to be replaced. Factory part wont fit in the cheap chinese part.
 
#26 ·
I'm sure late to this party. The Ebay stuff is a waste. That is my ball joint pictured above. It broke after 6 months. I'm lucky that the car was only pulling out of a parking spot when the ball joint snapped.
 
#27 ·
Napa UCA's

My upper control arms were purchased at Napa, and the right had one began making a lot of noise after only 2 months. They replaced it, I haven't put the replacement in yet, but here is a pic of it. Scary thing is, it looks an awful lot like those eBay arms pictured above...

 
#28 ·
damn glad i found this thread bc i was planning on buying that kit off ebay just bc it was the cheapest i found. HAHA second thought i will just pay out the lil extra money and go to advacned auto screw that cheap ebay chinnies crap. my upper ball joints and bishings are shot lower ball joints shot to just hoping they hold out till spring
 
#29 ·
If your upper and lower ball joints are truly 'shot' you should be doing your hoping while your car sits in the garage till spring. Do yourself a favor and everyone else on the road and don't drive a potentially dangerous car around, and certainly don't advertise on the internet that your car is about to fall apart...

Left lower separates, sends you into oncoming traffic, hoping really got you far didn't it... park it.

As for suspension components, cheap doesn't mean its a good deal.
 
#30 · (Edited)
It doesn't mean its a bad deal either. I seen the pictures of the broken one and also seen the brand name. It is not the same as these and does not look like these. As a matter of fact NetKeym said they looked like his Napa one, which started going bad after 2 months. This is infact the same one you buy at Advance Auto as you can say here:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Control-Arm-w-Ball-Joint---Lower-OE-Brand_15510374-P_2071_R|GRP60005_1040714047___
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Control-Arm-w-Ball-Joint---Lower-OE-Brand_15510453-P_2071_R|GRP60005_1040709471___
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Control-Arm-w-Ball-Joint---Upper-OE-Brand_15520410-P_2070_R|GRP60005_1040717281___
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Control-Arm-w-Ball-Joint---Upper-OE-Brand_15520411-P_2070_R|GRP60005_1040709767___



So before everybody starts knocking on this stuff that has not bought this exact brand and tried it, used it, and it failed miserably please stop. I'm not saying this stuff is great but you cant argue it will fail cause someone else's did, if thats true dont buy Napa eother that broke. So instead of being so judgmental let the parts speak for themselves. When they break Ill say that yes they were bad, but when they dont I will praise them. I'm not going to judge these on other parts failing and your guys bad experience's with ebay. These guys have 99.6% feedback with 0ver 14000 score so they must be something right. They will be going on the car as the ones that are on there are going bad and why I'm not driving it. So yes they are not as good as Moog's or Autocraft's but they are the cheap ones at my local store not some unknown brand.
 
#32 ·
These guys have 99.6% feedback with 0ver 14000 score so they must be something right.
What they are doing right is fulfilling and shipping orders in a timely manner and accurately portraying what the item is.

Consider that feedback must be left within 90 days of purchase, and that users leave feedback based on what was received relative to the item description, shipping time, etc. That just means people got what they bought in a reasonable time frame. It doesn't speak for the quality of what was purchased. It represents the integrity of the seller. Not the integrity of the product.

No, I'm not knocking what you bought. I'm not knocking you for buying it. You asked for our advice and chose to disregard it; if that's your prerogative then so be it. I'm stating that it is wrong to infer that a good feedback score on ebay means that what is sold will last (or not last, for that matter).
 
#31 ·
Ebay garbage sellers get decent ratings because the dumb buyers give them good feedback before even opening the box. That or they started new account under a different name after their feedback starts to plummet.

Btw, you do know world suspension isnt the producer of the control arms that failed above right? They are a seller of oe brand and dorman.
 
#34 ·
Yes alot of that feedback is "generic feedback" where they leave it as soon as they get it. that why you have to take your time read all the feedback especially the negative, that will tell you more than the score usually as for starting a new account they been registerd for 5 years.

No I didnt know about world suspension But I checked out the website after its mention. So which part was it that broke?? Dorman? OE? Was it installed correctly?


Fact of the matter is, I am sure ALL these resellers (Napa, Advanced, Rockauto, etc.) - and they ARE RESELLERS meaning they didn't make these parts - are selling the same components under they're own brand names.

The UCA that I showed you is marketed by Napa under Master Ride Chassis, but it came in a plain white box with plain brown tape and in a plain plastic bag. The part itself says BAW in two places on it with a part number of H44 on the ball itself.

A little research on BAW turned up Jason BAW Co., Ltd. located in Taiwan where the part is actually made. This company makes parts for almost EVERY car company in the world. Here is their website:

http://www.baw-auto.com.tw/

Beamerboy46350, what does it say on the arms you have? Just curious....

This is exactly right they are all resellers. Paying less than half as much buying on ebay rather than going to advance doesnt make it crappy. As for it being chinese you be surprised at some of the stuff you think is great comes from china too. Being from china doesnt make it bad, neither does being on ebay. Just because someones broke from ebay does not mean you should stop buying from them, OR else you would never buy another part, everything breaks. After checking out the link that website looks worse than world suspension, but that doesnt make them bad.

I couldnt find any markings on the arm just the ball joint it said OEJN 20709??

No, I'm not knocking what you bought. I'm not knocking you for buying it. You asked for our advice and chose to disregard it; if that's your prerogative then so be it. I'm stating that it is wrong to infer that a good feedback score on ebay means that what is sold will last (or not last, for that matter).
I already said what I gotta say about ebay, as for the advice I looked back through all the post to see you didnt give any, thanx for that, but I had to do what was best for me. I could advise you that sugar is a great additive to gas, doesnt mean you should take it. In the end the decision was made on my need to get my car back on the road and my bank account. All the advice in the world couldnt change those 2 factors.
 
#33 ·
Fact of the matter is, I am sure ALL these resellers (Napa, Advanced, Rockauto, etc.) - and they ARE RESELLERS meaning they didn't make these parts - are selling the same components under they're own brand names.

The UCA that I showed you is marketed by Napa under Master Ride Chassis, but it came in a plain white box with plain brown tape and in a plain plastic bag. The part itself says BAW in two places on it with a part number of H44 on the ball itself.

A little research on BAW turned up Jason BAW Co., Ltd. located in Taiwan where the part is actually made. This company makes parts for almost EVERY car company in the world. Here is their website:

http://www.baw-auto.com.tw/

Beamerboy46350, what does it say on the arms you have? Just curious....
 
#35 · (Edited)
Not here to judge. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. When I rebuilt my front end 2 years ago, I used Moog from Rockauto for UCA's, stabilizer links, tie rod ends and OEM TRW LCA's from Advance Auto. If I had to do it again in this "tight money" economy I would still use the TRW LCA's. And I believe even those were made in Canada. These days I consider myself lucky if I can find parts made in North America.
 
#37 ·
What i think he may have been trying to do is get the car back on the road and buy some time. That is why he was asking for suggestions. I pretty much bought all of the parts for my front suspension too. The upper control arms are trw because i had to get them right away from advance auto. Everything else i got little by little. So when the weather gets better i will change them out. Is my suspension bad ? no. The car only has 55 k miles on it. The way i figure is to get it out of the way before they go bad. Hopefully he gets at least a year out of those parts and during that time he will purchase the replacements little by little.
 
#38 ·
I never really asked for help on which ones. I was looking for tubulars figuring if there out there someone on here would know. I also asked if anyone knew of any other "kits" I had already planned on moogs before i got laid off, if you look at the first post,but life is unpredictable and ya gotta do what ya gotta do. All I know is that this, the 20 mile drive home felt "bad". I dont know what needs replaced, too much snow and cold to look, I need a car my taurus died in nov. So this weekend I'll be back on the road!! 180 bux well spent.
 
#41 · (Edited)
Well, this thread is getting like the Harbor Freight tool tool debates all over the web. One guy has a HF angle grinder last 20 years when used professionally every day in a bodyshop and another has it burn up cutting thru a third piece of 1" PVC pipe. One guy snaps his $100 Matco breaker bar, runs to HF in pinch, buys one for $10 and it lasts a decade. You get the idea.

The thing that I have trouble believing is the statistical quality control on China parts are consistent from one batch to another. If a company like Moog opened a factory in China, that is one thing. But Dorman or whatever, that is another story.

One batch of joints may last 100K miles, the others will fail in a week. I've seen this thread repeated on many other forums, and there are 20 complaints for ebay vs. one complaint about moog on average. And like others said, feedback means NOTHING, except that the item was shipped out and installed in a timely fashion. I bought some cheap memory on ebay with a lifetime warranty, and 6 months later the seller with 5 figure positive feedbacks just blocks my messages when I want a replacement. Its only $10 memory, but you get the idea. His page looks about as honest and reliable as it gets, talking about quality and lifetime warranties.

China tries to cut corners in every way shape and form possible. As an example, one guy on a MK8 forum has his lower ebay control arm bend after hitting a medium pothole at a moderate speed. You know that is very unlikely on a TRW arm. It is likely the arm wasn't hardened correctly and therefore failed.

If your car was under Ford extended warranty, Ford would only replace it with a Motorcraft or Ford replacement. Believe me, if there was any way Ford and dealers could save money they would, but they also want something with the most potential to last the warranty period, which could be years for an extended warranty. Also, the dealer warrants all repairs for 12mos/12K miles BTW.

Those cheaper parts (OE, Dorman, etc) are designed for places like Midas who give 1-3 month warranties (I was shocked to find this out). The parts are designed for older cars with probably a 1-2 year lifespan, figuring most will be off the road by the time they fail. I was told this by a mechanic.

Then again, considering how money is so hard to come by today I can see the reasoning in buying lower quality parts, every dollar counts. I hate to buy tools in Harbor Freight, but there is no way I could afford Snap on. However, I still think tools are different from a suspension part, I can always stop off at HF after work and exchange a bad tool, but the thought of working on suspension again really makes me think twice.

Ok, off the soapbox for now.
 
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