delayed/late 1-2 shift - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-14-2007, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
JNT
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delayed/late 1-2 shift

It feels like my car has a delay in the 1-2 shift. It almost feels like the fluid level is low even though it is fine. It also feels like it shifts too late.

At WOT on the track the transmission shifts 1-2 at around 5800 rpm. This rpm reading is based on the dashboard tach which I realize may not be accurate.
I still need to datalog the car at WOT.

Where should the 1-2 shift occur on a car with an SCT flashed computer?


I have updated the 1-2 and 2-3 accumulators, have done the j-mod and switched to Mercon V.

Joe

1997 Thunderbird 4.6L LX (out of commission for now)
SCT XCAL 2 From Lonnie, 02 Mustang MAF and air box, Dynomax Cat Back Exhaust, Steeda U/D Pulleys, 70MM FRPP TB, Dual Piston Calipers, KVR Rotors, Alpine CD, Polk Speakers

1996 Thunderbird 4.6L LX Stock

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1996 Bronco XL - 2003 Escort ZX2 wrecked - 1996 Bronco XLT Sport

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-15-2007, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
JNT
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I guess this could have gone in the 4R70W specific forum.

Joe

1997 Thunderbird 4.6L LX (out of commission for now)
SCT XCAL 2 From Lonnie, 02 Mustang MAF and air box, Dynomax Cat Back Exhaust, Steeda U/D Pulleys, 70MM FRPP TB, Dual Piston Calipers, KVR Rotors, Alpine CD, Polk Speakers

1996 Thunderbird 4.6L LX Stock

1994 Thunderbird SC (Needs Work, for sale)
1996 Bronco XL - 2003 Escort ZX2 wrecked - 1996 Bronco XLT Sport

Project Car: 69 Lincoln Continental
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
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Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Joe

1997 Thunderbird 4.6L LX (out of commission for now)
SCT XCAL 2 From Lonnie, 02 Mustang MAF and air box, Dynomax Cat Back Exhaust, Steeda U/D Pulleys, 70MM FRPP TB, Dual Piston Calipers, KVR Rotors, Alpine CD, Polk Speakers

1996 Thunderbird 4.6L LX Stock

1994 Thunderbird SC (Needs Work, for sale)
1996 Bronco XL - 2003 Escort ZX2 wrecked - 1996 Bronco XLT Sport

Project Car: 69 Lincoln Continental
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 01:58 PM
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I would suspect it has the updated 1-2 piston in a 97 but you never know.

Mine did that off and on until the spring broke into 2 pieces and wedged the piston in the bore. Didn't move after that. So now I've brought up another thing, the spring could be on it's way out.

Just my thoughts. Simple inexpensive thoughts.

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 02:05 PM
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5800 is too high if you have the stock torque converter.

Mine is a little high at 5600 RPM, I need to lower it a little because it is just not making anything up at that point, the PI cams might help when/if I get time to install them, but I think 5800 is too high to spin the stock TC.

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89 Cougar LS 3.8/Oxford White/Gray velour/HG need replaced AGAIN
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbrown View Post
I would suspect it has the updated 1-2 piston in a 97 but you never know.

Mine did that off and on until the spring broke into 2 pieces and wedged the piston in the bore. Didn't move after that. So now I've brought up another thing, the spring could be on it's way out.

Just my thoughts. Simple inexpensive thoughts.
It does have the updated 1-2 piston. I installed it along with the updated upper spring. I removed the lower spring.

I'm going to drop the pan to change fluid and filter. While I'm in there i'm going to replace the 1-2 piston and check the springs.

Joe

1997 Thunderbird 4.6L LX (out of commission for now)
SCT XCAL 2 From Lonnie, 02 Mustang MAF and air box, Dynomax Cat Back Exhaust, Steeda U/D Pulleys, 70MM FRPP TB, Dual Piston Calipers, KVR Rotors, Alpine CD, Polk Speakers

1996 Thunderbird 4.6L LX Stock

1994 Thunderbird SC (Needs Work, for sale)
1996 Bronco XL - 2003 Escort ZX2 wrecked - 1996 Bronco XLT Sport

Project Car: 69 Lincoln Continental
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 02:23 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah It was my understanding that the TC wasn't going to last at that high rpm. It doesn't feels like the car is still making power at that rpm and what I have read supports that feeling.

This isn't an issue when I'm driving around but and the track It seems like its hurting me to have it shift that high. By the time it shifts 1-2 I don't have enough track left to have it get back to the upper rpms.

Bangster what mods have you done?

Joe

1997 Thunderbird 4.6L LX (out of commission for now)
SCT XCAL 2 From Lonnie, 02 Mustang MAF and air box, Dynomax Cat Back Exhaust, Steeda U/D Pulleys, 70MM FRPP TB, Dual Piston Calipers, KVR Rotors, Alpine CD, Polk Speakers

1996 Thunderbird 4.6L LX Stock

1994 Thunderbird SC (Needs Work, for sale)
1996 Bronco XL - 2003 Escort ZX2 wrecked - 1996 Bronco XLT Sport

Project Car: 69 Lincoln Continental
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 04:02 PM
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02 Mustang MAF/airbox/Zip tube
PI intake
180 degree thermostat
1 range colder iridium/platinum plugs
Lonnie 91 octane tune
mild JMod with all the accumulator springs in place (I maybe should have removed the lower spring)

I have PI cams to install
I am trying to buy a C&L upper plenum and TB
I am trying to get some headers
I want to get either a 3 inch single or 2.25 dual exhaust setup done

I took it out to the track in its current configuration, and it wasn't impressive. I was hoping for a couple more tenths faster but have to reason to believe I would get them. I think I need to lower my WOT shift points for better results as it sits now. I played around with part throttle shift speed but haven't touched WOT yet. I am not seriously thinking about making it a car that will kill anything on the track, and it took drag radials on the imports to beat it (anything stock or as driven on the street I was able to beat) but I would also like to go with a better torque converter, that would help me the most it seems after simple cheap bolt-ons I am doing.

--
97 Mark VIII LSC/Silver/Gray leather
97 Cougar 4.6 Sport/White Opalescent Tricoat Metallic /Gray leather down but not out?
89 Cougar LS 3.8/Oxford White/Gray velour/HG need replaced AGAIN
00 Grand Marquis LS/Vibrant White/Gray velour
63 Falcon 302/black and rust/shed isn't moving
82 F-150/Oxford White/dumb VV carb doesn't pass emissions
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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Sounds like your mod list is very similar to mine. My list is in my sig plus the PI intake I recently installed.

Your car is shifting at 5600 WOT and also feels too high? What were your track times with that set up. Did you have your tuner change the part throttle shifts or was that something you did in the Xcal software?

Joe

1997 Thunderbird 4.6L LX (out of commission for now)
SCT XCAL 2 From Lonnie, 02 Mustang MAF and air box, Dynomax Cat Back Exhaust, Steeda U/D Pulleys, 70MM FRPP TB, Dual Piston Calipers, KVR Rotors, Alpine CD, Polk Speakers

1996 Thunderbird 4.6L LX Stock

1994 Thunderbird SC (Needs Work, for sale)
1996 Bronco XL - 2003 Escort ZX2 wrecked - 1996 Bronco XLT Sport

Project Car: 69 Lincoln Continental
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
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I've looked at the Extreme tune software before and it only allows changes based on MPH not RPM. I guess I need to do some reading on the SCT site to understand how this translates to RPM.

Joe

1997 Thunderbird 4.6L LX (out of commission for now)
SCT XCAL 2 From Lonnie, 02 Mustang MAF and air box, Dynomax Cat Back Exhaust, Steeda U/D Pulleys, 70MM FRPP TB, Dual Piston Calipers, KVR Rotors, Alpine CD, Polk Speakers

1996 Thunderbird 4.6L LX Stock

1994 Thunderbird SC (Needs Work, for sale)
1996 Bronco XL - 2003 Escort ZX2 wrecked - 1996 Bronco XLT Sport

Project Car: 69 Lincoln Continental
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 06:45 PM
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I did the same thing you did.
I replaced the old 1-2 accumulator piston with the updated piece and left out the bottom spring. I love the way it shifts.
However, I decided to have some fun last summer and installed a performance computer (from here - I have no idea who set it up).
The car felt like it had much more power, but the shift point were very advanced. Even under light throttle, it would hold 1st gear for a painfully long time, then it would crank into 2nd. That's all well and good, but it was too harsh for my transmission with its missing lower 1-2 spring.
The car would go sideways under WOT when it hit 2nd gear.
With the fear of grenading the rear end, I pulled the computer and put the stocker back in. It's back to normal with the nice, firm 1-2 shifts.
I have yet to reinstall the performance computer.


1996 Mercury Cougar XR7
4.6 - Dynomax-Equipped - Tranny Cooler - 3.27 T/L - 125k Miles
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 07:04 PM Thread Starter
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The 1-2 shift is nice and firm on mine just seems to happen too late. I like it at WOT without the lower spring although it is a pretty violent shift and I'm always surprised nothing in the drive train has broken. I did reduce the line pressure at light throttle to soften up the shift while driving around town.

Joe

1997 Thunderbird 4.6L LX (out of commission for now)
SCT XCAL 2 From Lonnie, 02 Mustang MAF and air box, Dynomax Cat Back Exhaust, Steeda U/D Pulleys, 70MM FRPP TB, Dual Piston Calipers, KVR Rotors, Alpine CD, Polk Speakers

1996 Thunderbird 4.6L LX Stock

1994 Thunderbird SC (Needs Work, for sale)
1996 Bronco XL - 2003 Escort ZX2 wrecked - 1996 Bronco XLT Sport

Project Car: 69 Lincoln Continental
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-28-2007, 03:16 AM
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i can see why you might feel it is shifting too high.....unfortunately, our bodies are not calibrated accelerometers, and therefore should not be used to determine shift points.....if we were, we would all be shifting at the torque peak RPM, which is the RPM that the engine pulls the hardest in that respective gear

what is counter-intuitive is that acceleration MUST decrease in the current gear, in order to not lose acceleration into each successive gear.....this is because the acceleration of the car is governed by the total torque at the rear wheels, after all torque-multiplication by the torque converter/transmission/final drive ratio is mechanically performed

read this thread:

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=105472


i hope you can see that in order to determine the best possible shift point, the area under the acceleration vs time plot has to be maximized....of course, you dont want to spin your torque converter past its safe range, but it is possible that it could still be optimized......SCT tunes get you into the ball park range, with datalogging and on-device adjustments, you can fine tune it even more

get some datalogs and we can take it from there
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