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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-22-2011, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by guitar maestro View Post
The coyote equipped F150s have a +/- push button on the shifter handle. Upshift/downshift as you please. Just gotta wire it up somewhere convenient and you're done. And of course, the F150 pcm can control the 6sp auto trans.
Yeah, but thats no fun...

Also it doesnt really happen immediately on most of the manually controllable automatics I have driven...

Give me three pedals.

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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-22-2011, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
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I think I would get my stuff used from an auto GT! Gotta love the auto trans. I dont mind ripping some gears though
I dunno, personally if I am going to be putting 400+ HP to the wheels I am going to want to row my own gears.

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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-22-2011, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Raptor22 View Post
Yeah, but thats no fun...

Also it doesnt really happen immediately on most of the manually controllable automatics I have driven...

Give me three pedals.
Still faster than any living mammal will shift a manual

Plus (speculation) the delay could probably be worked out in the tune.

-Matt
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-22-2011, 11:57 PM Thread Starter
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Still faster than any living mammal will shift a manual

Plus (speculation) the delay could probably be worked out in the tune.
Nope, a DSG (automated manual) is faster than a human, but no torque converter automatic can shift faster than me. I drove an e350 coupe not too long ago, the gear changes are slow as hell with the paddles or with the shifter.

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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 12:31 AM
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Sorry but...






There's a reason Autos are chosen over Manuals in drag racing. The simple fact is they shift faster, it doesn't matter if it's a slushbox or a DSG. DSGs advantage is it's efficiency from not using a converter and launch control capabilities.

Plus as I said, there are likely parameters in the tune that can be changed to shorten the delay the factory puts in for NVH, economy or emissions reasons

-Matt
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 02:13 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry but...






There's a reason Autos are chosen over Manuals in drag racing. The simple fact is they shift faster, it doesn't matter if it's a slushbox or a DSG. DSGs advantage is it's efficiency from not using a converter and launch control capabilities.

Plus as I said, there are likely parameters in the tune that can be changed to shorten the delay the factory puts in for NVH, economy or emissions reasons

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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Raptor22 View Post
You cant see the clutch pedal. If you were to actually time it, from the instant the clutch pedal starts to go in, all the way to when the clutch pedal returns to fully lifted, and compare it to what a proprly set-up automatic can do, you'd be surprised.
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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You cant see the clutch pedal. If you were to actually time it, from the instant the clutch pedal starts to go in, all the way to when the clutch pedal returns to fully lifted, and compare it to what a proprly set-up automatic can do, you'd be surprised.
Honestly I dont really care, I prefer driving a manual. And besides, with a manual I can hold whatever gear I choose and downshift at will without waiting for the autos computer to downshift. At least my automatic has a TV cable so there's less of a delay.

Needless to say my AOD will be replaced by an M5R2 in my Thunderbird shortly.

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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor22 View Post
Honestly I dont really care, I prefer driving a manual. And besides, with a manual I can hold whatever gear I choose and downshift at will without waiting for the autos computer to downshift. At least my automatic has a TV cable so there's less of a delay.

Needless to say my AOD will be replaced by an M5R2 in my Thunderbird shortly.
Again, any delay can be shortened in the tune. The computer is faster than a mechanical device.

I'm only arguing because blatant false statements are being made, the facts are the facts. I don't even like autos! lol

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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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Again, any delay can be shortened in the tune. The computer is faster than a mechanical device.

I'm only arguing because blatant false statements are being made, the facts are the facts. I don't even like autos! lol
On downshifts? I want it to downshift whenever I want it to, to whatever gear I want it to at that particular time... I cant make a torque converter automatic do that.

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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 03:55 PM
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If I moved the shifter from D to 2 or 2 to 1 the downshift happens virtually instantaneous. If I'm in drive and I'm braking into a turn in 3rd, I come out of the turn in 1st or 2nd depending on speed automatically.

All I have to do is look at the datalogs and look at what gear is commanded by the PCM and how long the trans shifts, and it's faster than the clutch shattering video you posted

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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 03:58 PM
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It shouldn't be hard to do a Coyote swap. It is basically a 4.6 bored out to a 5.0.



LOL, I actually had somebody try to tell me this the other day. Tried to explain how the motor is a whole new beast with new heads, intake, variable cam timing, blah blah blah but it went completely over his head.

I finally left the conversation after he said that he had a motor out of a 93' CV and that he was going to buy the 5.0 stroker kit for it to achieve the same results as the new coyote.

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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 04:16 PM
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On downshifts? I want it to downshift whenever I want it to, to whatever gear I want it to at that particular time... I cant make a torque converter automatic do that.
... why do you think we leave out the springs on the accumulators and drill holes for the JMOD ? Yes you can. Even better on the electronic version. Your AOD TV "cable" controls a hydraulic Shift valve that has to overcome the Governor pressure resulting in your downshift. ALL Automatics have Torque converers by the way, unless your car is out of the 1950's.

And the only downshift you would reasonably want is from 3 to 2 ... why go to 1st gear if youre not starting out in it ? I never do that especially with the 5 speed.
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 05:43 PM
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Honestly I dont really care...
thats cool, as long as you concede defeat in your erroneous claims
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 06:16 PM
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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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... why do you think we leave out the springs on the accumulators and drill holes for the JMOD ? Yes you can. Even better on the electronic version. Your AOD TV "cable" controls a hydraulic Shift valve that has to overcome the Governor pressure resulting in your downshift. ALL Automatics have Torque converers by the way, unless your car is out of the 1950's.

And the only downshift you would reasonably want is from 3 to 2 ... why go to 1st gear if youre not starting out in it ? I never do that especially with the 5 speed.
DSGs dont have torque converters, neither do CVTs, both of which are automatic transmissions.

I dont like when my left foot and right hand get bored.

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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 08:52 PM
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... why do you think we leave out the springs on the accumulators and drill holes for the JMOD ? Yes you can. Even better on the electronic version. Your AOD TV "cable" controls a hydraulic Shift valve that has to overcome the Governor pressure resulting in your downshift. ALL Automatics have Torque converers by the way, unless your car is out of the 1950's.

And the only downshift you would reasonably want is from 3 to 2 ... why go to 1st gear if youre not starting out in it ? I never do that especially with the 5 speed.

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DSGs don't have torque converters, neither do CVTs, both of which are automatic transmissions.

...

Picky picky. I'm not even sure what a DSG is but I know the Nissan abomination know as a CVT is about as far from an automatic transmission as a wankel rotary engine is from a four stroke.

Not to mention, when CVT's break they are not fixed but replaced - or fixed for a small fortune ... hence making the replacement option that much more appealing.

After a brief search I found the following. There are many, many more stories like this one about CVT's.
  • Universal serious problem with the CVT transmission and Transfer Plate which costs $4-6000 to replace when it cracks or fails, which usually occurs [around] 65,000 or so miles.
  • Nissan claims it is the consumer's fault because the tranny is not replaced with new fluid (cost $600) every 30,000 miles, yet, as owners state, the manual makes no mention of this at all.
  • Here's one from an AUDI forum: "Yea. My A4 04 has 77,000 miles on it and my transmission just blew out."

http://perrya.hubpages.com/hub/Nissa...r-CVT-Problems

I don't mean to sound harsh, but, as you can tell. I have no love for CVT transmissions.

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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 09:51 PM
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DSGs dont have torque converters, neither do CVTs, both of which are automatic transmissions.

I dont like when my left foot and right hand get bored.

A Continuously Variable Transmission is not the same as Automatic .. there are no Gears, hence no "automatic" shifting - no shifting at all. Have you ever driven a CVT ?? The RPM's go up and stay there, then your car slowly starts moving. They accomplish this by using plates that move in and out which creates different pulley ratio's, hence the Variable nametag and "infinate" gears. No torque multiplication without a Torque converter so your little import engine has even less torque than the average.
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 09:52 PM
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I command manual downshifts every day. I'm surprised my O/D light has not burned out yet. lol My 4r70w responds pretty quickly when I need it to downshift. I don't even have any tuning done to the PCM yet. My 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 shifts are really quick. I would like to think I shift my T-5 equipped Mustang as fast, but I know I can't. I'm really good at driving a stick. Good enough to not even need a clutch after 1st gear.

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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 10:25 PM Thread Starter
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Picky picky. I'm not even sure what a DSG is but I know the Nissan abomination know as a CVT is about as far from an automatic transmission as a wankel rotary engine is from a four stroke.

Not to mention, when CVT's break they are not fixed but replaced - or fixed for a small fortune ... hence making the replacement option that much more appealing.

After a brief search I found the following. There are many, many more stories like this one about CVT's.
  • Universal serious problem with the CVT transmission and Transfer Plate which costs $4-6000 to replace when it cracks or fails, which usually occurs [around] 65,000 or so miles.
  • Nissan claims it is the consumer's fault because the tranny is not replaced with new fluid (cost $600) every 30,000 miles, yet, as owners state, the manual makes no mention of this at all.
  • Here's one from an AUDI forum: "Yea. My A4 04 has 77,000 miles on it and my transmission just blew out."

http://perrya.hubpages.com/hub/Nissa...r-CVT-Problems

I don't mean to sound harsh, but, as you can tell. I have no love for CVT transmissions.
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A Continuously Variable Transmission is not the same as Automatic .. there are no Gears, hence no "automatic" shifting - no shifting at all. Have you ever driven a CVT ?? The RPM's go up and stay there, then your car slowly starts moving. They accomplish this by using plates that move in and out which creates different pulley ratio's, hence the Variable nametag and "infinate" gears. No torque multiplication without a Torque converter so your little import engine has even less torque than the average.
Well besides CVTs there are DSGs (Dual Clutch Automatics) that do not have torque converters and can have very fast shifts. The new Ford automatics are dual clutch automatics rather than torque converter autos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Po...t_transmission

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post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 10:50 PM
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Well besides CVTs there are DSGs (Dual Clutch Automatics) that do not have torque converters and can have very fast shifts. The new Ford automatics are dual clutch automatics rather than torque converter autos.
... oh, you mean the Manual transmission with an automatic clutch ? Its basically a manual gearbox. ... keep looking
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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 10:55 PM
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DSGs dont have torque converters, neither do CVTs, both of which are automatic transmissions.
Actually some do have torque converters. A perfect example is the Toyota CVT-i, Ford also has one. However I would like to state I'm no expert, but I felt the need to correct you since there is a cut away of one of these creatures in working display in the automotive lab at my college. Here are two pictures of them cut away. One Ford, one Toyota.




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post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
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... oh, you mean the Manual transmission with an automatic clutch ? Its basically a manual gearbox. ... keep looking
Thats my point, torque converter automatics are slow, dual clutch automatics are damn near instantaneous. All of the women that buy Jettas and Fiestas equipped with them think that they are Automatics and they dont drive them any differently...

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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 12:25 AM
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Ugh, bring the tech already. I don't know who's been teaching you car tech but whoever he/she/it is is an idiot.

The torque converter has zip/zero/nada negative effect on shifting. Planetary gearboxes don't change gears, they change ratios (IE no point in the shift is neutral due to constant mesh and thus no rev matching to be done). Shift speed is determined by how fast the clutch packs fill and exhaust to hold and release the components(ring, carrier, or sun) that determine the desired ratio. The speed is determined by line pressure, orifice sizes, tune, ect.

Couple that with the PCM thinking much faster than you can at the point of the shift, it's always going to be smoother, faster, more accurate, more consistent, and more durable than a powershifted manual.

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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 06:06 AM
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DirtyD0g, GM or Joe could you move the last 9 or so posts to somewhere in the drivetrain forum and stick them in a new thread. Thanks.

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Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
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See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto
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post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-25-2011, 07:11 PM Thread Starter
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I suppose it all comes down to preference, fun vs. speed...

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post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-22-2011, 10:02 PM
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With the software I have, and my jmodded tranny, I can pretty much shift with my toe.

It downshifts on cue, exactly where I want it to, and upshifts exactly where I told it to.

It leaves a really cool ~2-4 ft gap in the black marks during the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts in a burnout, too.

I used to miss a manual tranny, but not in years.

YMMV.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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