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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-12-2016, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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SBF 5.0: Question about T5 vs T5 WC vs. whatever

All:
One of my lemons teammates is newly divorced (it was amicable and there are no kids involved so it worked out well) and has decided to take on an 5.0 swap into an E30. Prior to being a code monkey, he spent a few years working as a mechanic so he's been nearly as helpful as Dan in educating me on how to build/rebuild our tbird track car.

He already has the E30 and he recently purchased the donor car for $1100 (runs and drives).
The thinking is that at this price (given his newfound time), he can part out the Mustang and pull the engine and at least breakeven.

He can then build up the 5.0. The current plan is to tear it down to a bare block, send it to the machine shop to be bored out and align honed and once it's back, build it up into a 347 stroker w/ budget aluminum heads. Tuning will be done with QH.

Our paper napkin estimate is that we should end up ~400HP and +/- similar ft-lb of torque.
If at any point he decides to bail on the project and sell off the engine, I'll have a spare 302 for our racecar
That should be plenty scary in a 2600LB car. Goal is to use this car on the street (not a drag strip or track weapon)

Q: While he's still a few months away from having the engine ready, I wanted to ask you folks to help educate us on T5 transmissions, specifically, what should he consider buying for this project that will stand up to the amount of torque this engine is expected to make?

Since the donor vehicle came with an automatic, He's going to need the transmission + bellhousing but the e30 will supply the necessary clutch pedal. I believe the e30s use a hydraulic clutch system so I'm sure there's already a clutch slave that's spec'd out for this application (he has the swap manual -- not me).

Anyway, it's a slow friday at the office so back to my questions.
Q: What's a reasonable price to pay for the transmission + bellhousing? From what I can see in the Bay Area, CA, they seem to go for $400-700 ($700 being pitched as a full swap kit) for a used T5 that "works good and does other stuff good too".

Q: What would you buy instead of a used JY/CL trans? New/Reman trans with warranty + used bellhousing? If new/reman, who would you recommend he buy from?

Q: Finally, is there anything else he should look out for? The one item I've read is to avoid the 4cyl T5 as they are only rated to 240lb-ft (which this engine will definitely exceed).


Thanks in advance for any thoughts/advice you guys can offer. My buddy has the time to look for a deal and can be patient.
Regards,
-g

PS. BTW, if any of you are in the Boise area and/or need any shippable parts off a 94 Mustang GT automatic (except for the engine/harness/ECU), send me a PM and I'll put you in contact with Brett.

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-12-2016, 04:04 PM
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hey buddy
check this out ;Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market for the hardware, i got some stuff from there was cool and maybe this here:E30V8.com - Home of the BMW E30 5.0 V8 conversion V8 POWER FOR YOUR BMW - ON A BUDGET wink wink
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-12-2016, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Hoschy View Post
hey buddy
check this out ;Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market for the hardware, i got some stuff from there was cool and maybe this here:E30V8.com - Home of the BMW E30 5.0 V8 conversion V8 POWER FOR YOUR BMW - ON A BUDGET wink wink

Yeah, that's the manual for doing most e30 V8 conversions and a source for some swap specific items like the cut down oil pan.

-g

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-12-2016, 04:17 PM
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hey buddy
i never really heart of 5.0 swaps because in Europe the do BMW swaps like inline 6 out and v 8 in but all BMW hardware.

the Tranny is most likely a Getrac because there are not a lot t5*s in Europe.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-12-2016, 11:01 PM
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There is more to how much abuse a trans can take than just a torque number. Since this will be going in a lightweight car, and will be used on the street instead of launching on slicks at the track, both of those things will help the trans live. As for what trans to get, from 90 on were the strongest of the factory T5s, but from 94 up they used a longer bell housing and input shaft. The 94-04 T5s are just as strong as the 90-93s, but all the aftermarket upgraded ones are designed to work with the shorter bell housing, so if you do the conversion with a 94-04 T5, and if you decide to upgrade later, you will have to get a new bell housing too. That being said, 3.8 V6 Mustangs are ubiquitous in junkyards, and would provide a cheap supply of all the conversion parts. If he doesn't want to go with a used one, then the Tremec TKO500 will bolt right in place of a 90-93 T5, and will take all the abuse a stock block 302 based motor could ever throw at it.

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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-13-2016, 01:39 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
There is more to how much abuse a trans can take than just a torque number. Since this will be going in a lightweight car, and will be used on the street instead of launching on slicks at the track, both of those things will help the trans live. As for what trans to get, from 90 on were the strongest of the factory T5s, but from 94 up they used a longer bell housing and input shaft. The 94-04 T5s are just as strong as the 90-93s, but all the aftermarket upgraded ones are designed to work with the shorter bell housing, so if you do the conversion with a 94-04 T5, and if you decide to upgrade later, you will have to get a new bell housing too. That being said, 3.8 V6 Mustangs are ubiquitous in junkyards, and would provide a cheap supply of all the conversion parts. If he doesn't want to go with a used one, then the Tremec TKO500 will bolt right in place of a 90-93 T5, and will take all the abuse a stock block 302 based motor could ever throw at it.
Just to recap my buddies options:

$$$ Choice:
Buy a TKO500 for $2450 and have a bulletproof transmission and a 90-93 T5 bellhousing ($100 used).
I doubt he will go this route b/c that's more than he paid for the e30 but people do silly things with projects (like spend $15K over 5 years on a $500 car. not that I know anything about that).

Future Upgradability Choice:
Buy a used 90-93 T5 w/ matching bellhousing. This would allow the simple swapping of the 90-93 T5 with something stronger in the future.

Value Choice:
Buy a 94-04 3.8 V6 T5s from the JY or CL b/c it's the most common option
- Will have a longer bellhousing (and matching input shaft) so he will be limited on future upgrade options w/o going to a shorter 90-93 T5 bellhousing
Q: Is the OAL length of the transmission (bell housing + trans) different and will the driveshaft length be different compared to a 90-93 bellhousing+transmission setup?
IIRC, the e30 swap requires a custom driveshaft anyway but if he goes the value route, it would suck if he had to buy a new driveshaft AND bellhousing AND transmission if he finds that the V6 transmission isn't strong enough. I've read about ppl swapping out the input shafts to make a 94-04 V6 T5 work with a 90-93 5.0 T5 but I suspect that requires disassembly of the transmission, right?


AVOID:
Any 4cyl T5 transmission
Any pre-90 T5 transmission


Did I capture this correctly Mike?
-g

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-13-2016, 06:02 AM
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Yeah, you pretty much got it. The 94+ trans is about an inch longer overall, so there would be a difference in the driveshaft if he needs to upgrade in he future, but with the difference only being one inch, he could probably get away with a spacer at the diff flange instead of a whole new driveshaft if he goes that route. Honestly though, I think the 90+ trans will hold up just fine, and even if it doesn't, they are so easy to change and so cheap that you can replace a whole bunch of T5s before you have spent the cost of a TKO.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-13-2016, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
Yeah, you pretty much got it. The 94+ trans is about an inch longer overall, so there would be a difference in the driveshaft if he needs to upgrade in he future, but with the difference only being one inch, he could probably get away with a spacer at the diff flange instead of a whole new driveshaft if he goes that route. Honestly though, I think the 90+ trans will hold up just fine, and even if it doesn't, they are so easy to change and so cheap that you can replace a whole bunch of T5s before you have spent the cost of a TKO.
Thanks Mike.
Two more questions.
1) Is there any value at looking at Chevy sourced T5s? I suspect that the Chevy sourced T5 transmissions won't work for my friend b/c of the different input shaft and canted position makes it unsuitable without machine work and/or swapping internals. Either way, not worth it for my buddy and these should be ignored since my friend is using a Ford 5.0. Is this correct?

2) I know this varies from region to region but what do you think is a "reasonable" price to pay for:
90-93 T5
90-93 5.0 bellhousing
94-04 T5
94-04 5.0 bellhousing

In general, I've seen bellhousings go for $100 and T5s go for $400. Is this a premium "Bay Area, CA" pricing or is it pretty universal?

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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-13-2016, 11:26 AM
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The GM trans is not only a fitment problem, but also not as strong as the Ford unit, so no, don't waste your time with it. As for the pricing, that seems a little high compared to what I have seen, but not out of the ballpark, and it has also been a few years since I have priced out or purchased any T5s, so the prices could have gone up since then. The last time I picked them up, I paid $400 for a complete 90-93 T5, with bell housing, clutch fork, and a stock shifter. I also paid $250 for a trans only that had a broken input shaft retainer, which is a $50 part that takes all of 10 minutes to change.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
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