Need help with the last stage (wiring) of my 5 speed swap - TCCoA Forums
 8Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-05-2018, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 69
Need help with the last stage (wiring) of my 5 speed swap

Hi there folks...

I finally finished bolting the M5R2 to the 4.6 on my 94 TBird...

Yes (!!!) ... I knew all along that it wouldn't be as easy as the other manual options out there, but I love challenges and it can definitely be done if you are bent on the idea like I was... (and if you don't mind cutting a non-structural corner off of the block and making some other mods to make it work mechanically speaking)

I have read Papa John's article (and almost every other thread I've found on the topic of wiring a 5 speed conversion) but now I understand that his setup defeats the safety feature of the neutral switch -by jumping the terminals- and this way the car can be accidentally started in gear (!!).

I would like to retain the safety feature of the neutral switch, but I'm confused as to how to go about it.

The M5R2 has a two-wire neutral switch on it, and I could simply run the two wires from the auto car harness (the ones jumped on Papa John's article) to the switch, but I wonder if that will be enough to enable the safety feature or there's something else to do regarding the clutch safety switch ON THE PEDAL.

Although the 94 was a factory auto car, it has the clutch switch connector under the dash by the pedals (??) but it's currently plugged with a gray plastic plug that I will call a "jumper block". I don't know if it actually "jumps" the terminals or if it's just a plastic plug to prevent unnecessary exposure of the terminals.

Has anybody here connected BOTH a neutral switch on their 5-speeds to a 94 & up harness AND ALSO connected the clutch switch on the pedal?

I have no "Cruise Control" features or circuits to worry about, and I will soon get a tune mailed for the SCT X3, to "delete" the auto tranny from the ECU.

Please comment if you have something to share that might help me finish my conversion as cleanly as possible.

Also, if you want to mate the M5R2 to a 4.6 and have any questions, I can help too

Thanks is advance for your help.

Last edited by Turboedmav; 10-05-2018 at 01:39 PM.
Turboedmav is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-05-2018, 01:49 PM
Humble MN12 Genius
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Posts: 16,579
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
I'd like to see this just out of pure curiosity, there is a factory 4.6 block with the SBF pattern and a M5R2 case with the normal modular pattern I knew to be possible, I never knew the specifics of the mismatch so I'd definitely like to see.

Anyway, the neutral safety switch and clutch pedal switch both use the same starter circuit, (white/pink and/or red/light blue). If the car began life as a 4.6 car there is no jumper under the dash and it isn't prewired for it, automatic SCs have it, but not LXs. You'd have to wire it in if you really want it, which given the tightness means the dash has to come out to open up the harness and cut/tap the starter wire - or run new wire externally bypassing it(not the clean execution I prefer though). The grey plug you mention is likely just the ground junction.


The neurtal safety switch is the better one to have anyway, T45s, TR3650s and such don't have this switch(which is why papa john's article simply jumps it), and both features serve identical purposes so it doesn't matter for safety just having the one. Personally I don't like the clutch switch, it's inconvenient and needlessly loads the main thrust bearing without sufficient oil pressure at startup.
Turboedmav likes this.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-05-2018, 04:21 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 10,023
Garage
Isn't that tranny only rated about 250ft-lbs of torque?

I hear of people with 4.2l v6 engines breaking them...

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-05-2018, 04:32 PM
Humble MN12 Genius
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Posts: 16,579
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
Isn't that tranny only rated about 250ft-lbs of torque?

I hear of people with 4.2l v6 engines breaking them...
They're very strong, there are lots of big power SCs with M5R2s on SCCoA. Also stock SCs make way more torque than 4.6s, there's no worries here
Turboedmav likes this.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-05-2018, 04:35 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 10,023
Garage
OK.

I know several idiots with f150s that broke them in the woods; no telling how.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is online now  
post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-05-2018, 04:52 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tinton Falls, NJ
Age: 36
Posts: 7,428
Garage
Send a message via AIM to MadMikeyL
If they broke an M5R2, they would have broken any other trans. Multiple people on SCCoA have run over 500ft-lbs through them for years without breaking anything. I have also towed over 9000lbs with my M5R2 equipped 260k mile F150 with no ill effects.
Turboedmav likes this.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
-"Your buddy Mike is INSANE!" -ClintD's dad
MadMikeyL is offline  
post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-05-2018, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 69
M5R2's are rated well above the rated torque put out by the SC.

Synchro wear is the real headache with them (if you're that bad shifting and not using the right oil and additives)

There are enough coincidences in the bellhousing patterns to make it work.

The two holes on top are a match, as are two on the starter side and one more on the driver's side.

The dowel pins on 5.0 and 3.8 are solid, whereas the ones on the 4.6 are hollow and, thus, provide two extra bolt locations.

The two bolts on the bottom need custom angle iron brackets made that bolt onto the block using the existing holes and bolts for the oil pan... not my idea, it's @Ty Whutaker ... He wrote about putting a 4.6 into a SC body, but since he didn't upload any pictures, people doubted he'd done it. He was kind enough to mail me some pictures of his brackets for the lower bolts and confirm the swap was doable, as I suspected from some other earlier research I had already done.

The holes on the bellhousing for the dowel pins must be enlarged to 5/8 and they can be used with no problem if the new holes are drilled at the correct angle and well centered, 1mm off and the tranny might not slide in at all.

If I had to do it again, I'd save myself a lot of time and use a bolt-on option, I just wanted to prove myself it can be done, cause, like I said, I like challenges.

I have some pictures.

Last edited by Turboedmav; 10-05-2018 at 11:34 PM.
Turboedmav is offline  
post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-05-2018, 05:15 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 10,023
Garage
Most off road guys here drive mustangs on the street, so...

I've heard several people complain; but they're driving in really rough conditions.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is online now  
post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-05-2018, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
I'd like to see this just out of pure curiosity, there is a factory 4.6 block with the SBF pattern and a M5R2 case with the normal modular pattern I knew to be possible, I never knew the specifics of the mismatch so I'd definitely like to see.

Anyway, the neutral safety switch and clutch pedal switch both use the same starter circuit, (white/pink and/or red/light blue). If the car began life as a 4.6 car there is no jumper under the dash and it isn't prewired for it, automatic SCs have it, but not LXs. You'd have to wire it in if you really want it, which given the tightness means the dash has to come out to open up the harness and cut/tap the starter wire - or run new wire externally bypassing it(not the clean execution I prefer though). The grey plug you mention is likely just the ground junction.


The neurtal safety switch is the better one to have anyway, T45s, TR3650s and such don't have this switch(which is why papa john's article simply jumps it), and both features serve identical purposes so it doesn't matter for safety just having the one. Personally I don't like the clutch switch, it's inconvenient and needlessly loads the main thrust bearing without sufficient oil pressure at startup.
I guess I'll be undoing the jumped cables on the auto harness and running them to the switch on the 5 speed then... i will forget about the clutch pedal switch.

The connector for the clutch switch is in fact there, probably in the American car it isn't, but this a Mexican one and it does have it there, it's plugged.

I attached some pictures of the M5R2 splashguard on the 4R70W bellhousing, as you can see, there are 5 holes that can be readily used: 2 on top, 2 on driver's side and 1 on passenger side... the 2 on the bottom need custom brackets and that makes a total of 7 bolts.

Thanks for the input.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20180805_140645[1].jpg (298.1 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180805_140659[1].jpg (253.6 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180805_140724[1].jpg (277.8 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180805_140730[1].jpg (270.2 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180805_140736[1].jpg (321.0 KB, 3 views)

Last edited by Turboedmav; 10-05-2018 at 11:21 PM.
Turboedmav is offline  
post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-05-2018, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 69
Some more pics...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20180908_163732[1].jpg (231.1 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180909_162409[1].jpg (259.7 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180910_191104[1].jpg (143.9 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180910_194928[1].jpg (189.9 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180923_122541[1].jpg (271.4 KB, 3 views)
Turboedmav is offline  
post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-05-2018, 09:18 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 10,023
Garage
Nice work!

That's some really nice fab work, looks great.

Where did you find a mex car?

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is online now  
post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-05-2018, 10:19 PM
4th Gear Poster
 
Kenz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SYR, NY
Posts: 321
Impressive work you put into that! Compared to the Mustang swaps it looks quite more involved. I have read that the SC transmissions can hold some serious torque.

IMO the clutch pedal safety switch is unnecessary. At first I was bent about getting it set up when I did my swap. After just doing the simple bypass I am not really worried about it anymore. Parking brake works fine so no need to keep it in gear when parked anyway.
Turboedmav likes this.

96 Cougar Sport - T45 Swapped
Kenz is offline  
post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-05-2018, 10:51 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
Nice work!

That's some really nice fab work, looks great.

Where did you find a mex car?
Lol... Thanks... I'm Mexican... I live in Mexico and speak English because that's what I do for a living (I teach English as a foreing language)
Grog6 likes this.
Turboedmav is offline  
post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-05-2018, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenz View Post
Impressive work you put into that! Compared to the Mustang swaps it looks quite more involved. I have read that the SC transmissions can hold some serious torque.

IMO the clutch pedal safety switch is unnecessary. At first I was bent about getting it set up when I did my swap. After just doing the simple bypass I am not really worried about it anymore. Parking brake works fine so no need to keep it in gear when parked anyway.
Yeah, thanks... It's been a whole mess since I started, especially since I only work on the car on Sundays... But I'm almost through now...

I have read that about the SC transmissions as well... and I already had two of them, that's why I had to see for myself that this couldn't be done.

I hope the tune will leave the ECU and engine working as they did before the swap, car was smoooooth and shifts were always on point. I had been planning to do the swap in a couple years, but the tranny oil cooler in the radiator died and it started exchanging oil for coolant and made a mess in the auto tranny, I drained about a bucketful of "strawberry shake" from the auto... sad to see it go this way, it had been well mannered and trusty... RIP 4R70W...

Last edited by Turboedmav; 10-05-2018 at 11:07 PM.
Turboedmav is offline  
post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 04:20 AM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 10,023
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboedmav View Post
Lol... Thanks... I'm Mexican... I live in Mexico and speak English because that's what I do for a living (I teach English as a foreing language)
That's cool.

I'm from Tennessee, I speak English as a foreign language, to most people.



We've been dreaming about finding a good Junkyard down there, as those cars had options like we want, but can't get.

Welcome to the Club.

I wonder how hard it is to import a car? Anyone ever done that?

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote

Last edited by Grog6; 10-06-2018 at 05:19 AM.
Grog6 is online now  
post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
That's cool.

I'm from Tennessee, I speak English as a foreign language, to most people.


We've been dreaming about finding a good Junkyard down there, as those cars had options like we want, but can't get.


Welcome to the Club.

I wonder how hard it is to import a car? Anyone ever done that?

Cancun is a young city (not even 50 years old) and there are only a few junk yards here. The ones in business focus mainly on cars no more than 10 years old and, considering the city's own age, there couldn't really be many old cars in here (no 50's to 80's cars to use as projects and only very few 90's cars) ... I've struggled to get my parts too, I've had to get parts from eBay and Rock Auto, cause no one carries parts for these cars anymore in town... I'm sure there are no more than 10 or 20 Tbirds or Cougars in driving condition in cancun...

Can you name a few options we had in our cars and you didn't?

I wouldn't recommend importing a Mexican car (unless you can be absolutely positive it was well taken care of through the years with previous owner(s))... Cutting corners in Mexico is not the exception, but the norm when it comes to car care.

Economy in the US might not seem good to you these days, but trust me, we know what "bad economy" means, and it doesn't look any like most of US people experience.

Not trying to get into politics or useless discussions, I'm here to make friends and celebrate my love of these cars... what I'm trying to say is, money is only spent in proper car care when other areas of the household have been duly covered, and that is frequently not possible in most mexican families, hence, cars are usually neglected: Think oil changes in twice (or three times) the recommended periods. You can easily imagine the rest. There are exceptions, but they are rare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
I'm from Tennessee, I speak English as a foreign language, to most people.
Lol...

Last edited by Turboedmav; 10-06-2018 at 10:39 AM.
Turboedmav is offline  
post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 10:52 AM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 10,023
Garage
There are good options there for aging cars; manual windows and seats were two that came to mind.

And manual transmissions, which are only in SC's here.

IDK for sure about the windows, I've only heard that.

I've rebuilt all my windows, and do a yearly lubing to try to prevent future problems, and power seat motors freeze as well.

I'd be happy to find a manual pedal set.



Running cars would probably be the more taken care of ones, but I understand about low maintenance.

But, I know fairly rich people here that buy a car drive it for three years and sell it with original fluids.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is online now  
post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 11:25 AM
Humble MN12 Genius
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Posts: 16,579
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
I did some research on these cars a few years ago after chatting with another member from Mexico with a 3.8 supercharged 1994 Cougar XR7, which blew my mind! In the US the supercharged 3.8 was dropped in favor of the 5.0 in 1991, and in 1993 the XR7 was downgraded and applied to all Cougar models, regardless of engine. Also special for the Mexican XR7 is the use of the extremely rare 1992-only 16x7” turbine wheels on the 1994.

Because there was no Mercury brand in Mexico, Cougars were under the Ford umbrella, with Cougars positioned in the lineup as luxury models(mostly with typical equipment we have in the US), while Thunderbirds were low optioned, with some very seldom seen parts, like manual drivers seat, no cruise control, and flat front seats with unique upholstery patterns. In the US the 5-speed was only available in the Tbird SC and 1989-1990 XR7, and Thunderbird SC was top of the line. In Mexico, because the Cougar XR7 was placed as a luxury model, all supercharged Cougars were automatics, and Thunderbird SC were a stripper performance model - no automatic ride control, no cruise control, regular front seats(though they did have the fold down rear), no VMM, no ABS brakes, no fog lamps, etc.

I’ve seen some other differences perusing Mexican classifieds sites too:

•regular 89-93s all seemed to have the digital dash, which were optional in the US

•regular Tbirds and Cougars shared taillight lenses with the SC and XR7s

•I think the fold down rear seat may have been optional in all models

•Base 3.8s used a M5R2 as standard equipment.

•Base models with the 5-speed used the handbrake and corresponding console top with a unique “delete plate” for where the ride control/fog light switches would go on US SCs



Grog is incorrect about manual windows, no MN12 was designed for them. With the exception of upholstery patterns, Mexican MN12s used no parts that weren’t used in the US, but because they were local assembly CKD cars they were put together in their own unique combinations.

They were built at the plant that assembles (or at least used to) Fiestas.
Grog6 and Turboedmav like this.

-Matt

Last edited by XR7-4.6; 10-06-2018 at 11:37 AM.
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 69
Grog6:

Manual windows were never an option in the Mexican cars, they've always been electric.

Seats, there are both, power and regular.

I am subscribed to at least three groups on FB for these cars and conversion parts come up way more often than in the US, and the parts are also way cheaper than US parts, for example, I'd say you can get the clutch pedal for something around 60-75 US (as opposed to the 200+ I've seen posted on eBay!!)

The problem is, SHIPPPING from Mexico into the US is not as cheap as it is from the US to Mexico, right now I'm expecting the handheld tuner (SCT X3) shipped from Laredo and I only paid 11 US to my door... If I wanted to ship it back to Laredo, it would be around 60 US for sure.

So, it's a case by case scenario to find out if it will be worth buying used parts from here... I'll stay on the look out for a set of pedals and let you know if I hear of something.
Turboedmav is offline  
post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
I did some research on these cars a few years ago after chatting with another member from Mexico with a 3.8 supercharged 1994 Cougar XR7, which blew my mind! In the US the supercharged 3.8 was dropped in favor of the 5.0 in one XR7 in 1991, and in 1993 the XR7 was downgraded and applied to all Cougar models, regardless of engine. Also special for the Mexican XR7 is the use of the extremely rare 1992-only 16x7” turbine wheels on the 1994.
Wow, you know your stuff well, sir!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
Because there was no Mercury brand in Mexico, Cougars were under the Ford umbrella, with Cougars positioned in the lineup as luxury models(mostly with typical equipment we have in the US), while Thunderbirds were low optioned, with some very seldom seen parts, like manual drivers seat, no cruise control, and flat front seats with unique upholstery patterns.
Yes, My 94 has no cruise control at all, that's why I didn't understand all the fuss about "disabling" the Cruise control circuit by installing the clutch switch (which, as I said before, I'm not installing anymore).

Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
In the US the 5-speed was only available in the Tbird SC and 1989-1990 XR7, and Thunderbird SC was top of the line. In Mexico, because the Cougar XR7 was placed as a luxury model, all supercharged Cougars were automatics, and Thunderbird SC were a stripper performance model - no automatic ride control, no cruise control, regular front seats(though they did have the fold down rear), no VMM, no ABS brakes, no fog lamps, etc.
True.

Last edited by Turboedmav; 10-06-2018 at 11:46 AM.
Turboedmav is offline  
post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 04:42 PM
4th Gear Poster
 
Kenz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SYR, NY
Posts: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboedmav View Post
I hope the tune will leave the ECU and engine working as they did before the swap, car was smoooooth and shifts were always on point.
Recently finished the T45 swap into my Cougar. After the tune it runs just as smoothly. It really changed the car, not just the transmission but the tune also seemed to free up the engine a lot. Being able to wind it up in higher RPMs is very fun. It just loves to pull now.
Before getting tuned, it was embarrassing to drive with the manual transmission. I did a few test drives and it was bucking and backfiring. I would recommend you don't even bother test driving it much without the tune. The engine computer doesn't know what to do without the automatic transmission.

96 Cougar Sport - T45 Swapped
Kenz is offline  
post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 05:31 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 10,023
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenz View Post
The engine computer doesn't know what to do without the automatic transmission.
Yeah, I wouldn't do that.

It has no feedback, and I bet the EEC is freaking out.

Going Way Outside the limits is a great way to kill an engine.

I'm paranoid; that's not a change I would have made without a tune.

A pi engine at WOT on the stock tune is really close to the edge; even just the PI intake and exhaust was close to the edge at wot and 4200r's, untuned.

I was seeing 15 to 1 at places on the wideband; That gets really hot fast, and it's making so much noise you don't know if it's knocking by ear.

Those are relatively minor changes; the manual has different ratios, so the rpm climb is different.

Call Don, and get a tune.

It's cheaper in the long run.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is online now  
post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 05:56 PM
Humble MN12 Genius
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Posts: 16,579
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
The big issue I ran into with when I made my first tune for it was it was defaulting to the max spark at low load table under all operating conditions, which is locked at 15° btdc. It was popping and backfiring bad from that, despite all the auto trans functions shut off. It sounds like that’s what you were experiencing.

I had a pretty bad bad bucking issue too that I never figured out the root of before I pulled that engine. When I created the tune for my 32v swap I loaded all the values for a manual trans 96-98 GT to start with and that completely cured it.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 02:38 AM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
Yeah, I wouldn't do that.

It has no feedback, and I bet the EEC is freaking out.

Going Way Outside the limits is a great way to kill an engine.

I'm paranoid; that's not a change I would have made without a tune.

A pi engine at WOT on the stock tune is really close to the edge; even just the PI intake and exhaust was close to the edge at wot and 4200r's, untuned.

I was seeing 15 to 1 at places on the wideband; That gets really hot fast, and it's making so much noise you don't know if it's knocking by ear.

Those are relatively minor changes; the manual has different ratios, so the rpm climb is different.

Call Don, and get a tune.

It's cheaper in the long run.
I haven't started the car again since I removed the auto tranny. I only have Sundays to wrench away... After reading the threads I wasn't expecting the engine to work well without the tune. The SCT X3 tuner is on it's way now, got it for 200 on Ebay "as new" (still in the original bubble pack, although already opened, but all accesories, CD, and all 5 tunes still there).

I'm definitely getting the car tuned.

That's another interesting topic, you guys think that after SCT got busted by the EPA things will change a lot?

I've never owned or used a tuner (although I don't foresee any trouble using it as I like and understand electronics and a little of the principles behind engine tuning parameters and tables: timing, fueling, closed vs open loop operation, etc.)

Is there something I should do to prevent these law changes from ruining the joy of full control with the tuner? I read about making a copy of the CD files for "safekeeping" and about "stopping the clock" somewhere to circumvent the updating (limiting, actually) of the tuner firmware.

Any advice?

I'll search in the tuning section for a writeup or some info on this... I need to know if keeping the SCT as "virgin" as possible is a better bet than "updating" (limiting it) is.

Last edited by Turboedmav; 10-07-2018 at 03:19 AM.
Turboedmav is offline  
post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 02:50 AM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
When I created the tune for my 32v swap I loaded all the values for a manual trans 96-98 GT to start with and that completely cured it.

I'm curious about this...

Do you know if we have to pay SCT a fee or a license to create our own tunes for the SCT and upload them? I mean, are SCT tuner owners always "tied" to SCT authorized tuners? ... ... or we can go "solo" once we teach ourselves enough about tuning to start fiddling with fuel and spark tables, and other stuff?

Last edited by Turboedmav; 10-07-2018 at 03:02 AM.
Turboedmav is offline  
post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 11:49 AM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 10,023
Garage
If you want to write your own tunes, you have to buy the "PRP" package for about $400, and there's a steep learning curve.

Most people just order a "Mail order tune" that you would load with the xcal3.

I'd call Don Lasota, of Lasota Racing in Florida; he's tuned a bunch of these.

Look this over:

SCT LaSota Racing Ford Mail Order Custom Tunes

I'm tuning my cars, but you really need a wideband O2 sensor to make sure you're not going to kill anything; when you see it go lean, you know to let off.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is online now  
post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 12:14 PM
Humble MN12 Genius
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Posts: 16,579
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
As grog6 said you would need the prp software to do that. The Xcal III is merely an interface between your computer or laptop with the tune file and your car’s PCM. For these purposes you’re probably just better off with a mail order tune, especially from a cost standpoint.


The EPA thing is only said to take away EGR and rear oxygen sensor elimination, but everything else should remain in tact. As far as it effecting tuners the only thing that can disappear would be those optional parameters set by the programmer.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
If you want to write your own tunes, you have to buy the "PRP" package for about $400, and there's a steep learning curve.

Most people just order a "Mail order tune" that you would load with the xcal3.

I'd call Don Lasota, of Lasota Racing in Florida; he's tuned a bunch of these.

Look this over:

SCT LaSota Racing Ford Mail Order Custom Tunes

I'm tuning my cars, but you really need a wideband O2 sensor to make sure you're not going to kill anything; when you see it go lean, you know to let off.
Thanks, I called him just before buying the tuner on eBay but what discouraged me just a little was that when talking about my swap, he immediately said he wouldn't be able to guarantee a CEL free car.

It bothers me a bit to have spent 200 on the tuner and 100 more on the tune to "maybe" have the CEL on and not being able to have the tuner tweak his tune to make it go away... I know it's probably something beyond his control, so it can't be personal, but, still ... it's kind of a bummer...
Turboedmav is offline  
post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 12:35 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 10,023
Garage
Did he say why the cel would be on? If it's rear o2 sensors, you can add cats...

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is online now  
post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 12:39 PM
Humble MN12 Genius
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Posts: 16,579
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboedmav View Post
Thanks, I called him just before buying the tuner on eBay but what discouraged me just a little was that when talking about my swap, he immediately said he wouldn't be able to guarantee a CEL free car.

It bothers me a bit to have spent 200 on the tuner and 100 more on the tune to "maybe" have the CEL on and not being able to have the tuner tweak his tune to make it go away... I know it's probably something beyond his control, so it can't be personal, but, still ... it's kind of a bummer...
The tunes installed on the device right now are useless to you, they’re for a different car. What you’d need to do is to pay a tuner like Don lasota to create a tune file for your car, send it to you via email and you upload it to your Xcal via their updater software(it’s free do download and probably came on CD with your device), and then upload the tune to your car. As long as you specify everything you’ve done and your car is running right you’ll have no CEL, and if anything’s wrong Don(or whoever you choose) should be able to iron out the kinks and send you a new file.

The Xcal being unlocked is the big thing, and for $200 it’s a good deal. SCT charges $150 fee to unlock a locked device.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome