I'm back agian.. I pulled the tranny apart and found something wierd. 2nd gear probs? - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-26-2003, 12:38 AM Thread Starter
 
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I'm back agian.. I pulled the tranny apart and found something wierd. 2nd gear probs?

Story goes.. I think I am one of the guys now since I took the red shower today anyways. pulled everything out, valve body and all. took that apart and made sure the check balls were not jammed anywhere or anything out of the ordinary, That looked fine to my n00b eyes. came back after suckin' on a cancer stick. and my n00b eyes caught something that did not look right, I was told that the name of this part is called the 3-4 Accumulator. its all wedged in there sideways.. Without further ado.

Some pics. Tell me if this is wrong. and what should I do. Thanks (Videos are below of driving with the problem.)

WOULD THIS CAUSE THE TRANNY NOT TO SHIFT INTO SECOND?? but still have 1st 3rd and OD and slip like a mofo in manual second??





Quote:
Originally posted by Rotordemon20B
Dont know jack about automatics but story goes. Transmision was working flawlessly one day, drove home got some sleep... Woke up the next morning and the car WILL not shift into second (Cold or Hot) Just stays in first till about 30mph or around 4500R's and just slams into 3rd and then overdrive..
Although I can manually put it in second and from a dead stop it will hold the gear through the RPM range, when going from Manual first to Manual 2nd it slips.

Edit: Yes the fluid level is fine.

Right click and save as please. each video is about 2 meg each.

Shifter in Drive, normal throttle.

Manual 1st to Manual 2nd

Manual 2nd Wide Open Throttle from a dead stop


Tranny shop wont look at it.. they'd rather charge me $1,895 for a rebuild.


I figured videos would be better than words.

1995 Bird.
4.6
111k miles.
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-26-2003, 12:50 AM Thread Starter
 
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Where is the 1-2 accumulator?? Cant find it in any manuals.. I can find.. 2-3 3-4 and OD servo.
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-26-2003, 01:10 AM
 
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The 1-2 accumulator is in the upper left of your picture.
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-26-2003, 01:39 AM Thread Starter
 
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And with it all cockeyed in there like that would cause it NOT to have 2nd gear.. correct?
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-26-2003, 01:48 AM
 
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Yes. Get that newer style one in and you'll have a 1-2 again.
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-26-2003, 02:13 AM Thread Starter
 
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Kinda funny that would just happen overnight..

Works.. .... ... then ..... Nothing.

*shrug* Where do I get a newer style and how much am I looking to spend.?
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-26-2003, 02:38 AM
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It's less than 20 bucks for the piston and the new cap.. I forget exactly though.

1994 SC 5-Speed
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2253560
1996 4.6L R.I.P December 02, 2004
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/560841
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-26-2003, 02:49 AM Thread Starter
 
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Sweet... I'll be happy to have 2nd gear back agian.

lets hope Ford does not bend me over the counter for it like they did today with the $18 lower valvebody gasket.
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-26-2003, 03:03 AM
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Well.. I did get my parts with the club discount... :P The membership dues paid for themselves with the savings from my J-mod alone. Then again.. I did upgrade to the 99 VB.

1994 SC 5-Speed
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2253560
1996 4.6L R.I.P December 02, 2004
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/560841
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-26-2003, 03:22 AM Thread Starter
 
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Hmm.. J-mod looks pretty easy now.

Gonna order an upper valvebody gasket tomorrow and go out and do the 300hp mod.

any opinions on opening up the reverse hole larger.. or should I just leave it.

LOL I don't plan on gettin crazy in reverse. since its just the family grocery getter.

I'll leave my RX-7 up to gettin crazy with
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-27-2003, 12:10 AM Thread Starter
 
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Ok... underneath that cap was a shattered spring

So now.. I bought

$16 new style 1-2 piston
$14 new accum spring
$6 Bottom cup thing
$18 Lower VB Gasket
$3 Upper VB Gasket
$19 Filter and Pan Gasket

Debating on just putting Merc III back in there but would like to know the advantages compared with the Merc V and does it need to be Merc V "IF" I perform the J-Mod.

You guys have been more help with information than I had expected and would like to give you all a big Thank you!

Welp I am gonna read up on the J-Mod a bit. I might have a few more questions soon.

THANKS AGIAN! *Crosses fingers I will have 2nd gear agian*
-Mike
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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-27-2003, 12:25 AM
 
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Use Mercon V, your tranny will thank you for it.
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-27-2003, 07:58 AM
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Definitely switch over to MerconV.

Flush out ALL the old tranny fluid, even from the radiator lines, and TC.

While your in a spending mood, you should return the filter, and purchase a 96 or newer tanny pan and filter. These have a deep sump in them, and eliminates fluid starvation under certain driving conditions. My 95 would slip when turning right and uphill, from a stop. The new design pan eliminated this problem.

Glad to hear it was something simple.

Sounds like your tranny was begging for the J-Mod......lol

Steve - TCCoA member
2003 Crown Vic LX Sport
1995 T-Bird LX 4.6 retired at 247,888 miles
Thanks for the ride !
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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-27-2003, 08:08 AM
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thats the first simple transmission problem I have seen in a while.

You will need a good set of snap ring pliars to get the snap ring off, and you will need a bottle jack and a block of wood to get the new accumulator back in its bore with the springs.

Read the tech articles and its very simple.

I would go ahead and replace the pistons, and not mess with the reverse servo or the overdrive. The reverse servo is reallly not necessary in your application, and the overdrive is easy for a newbie to mess up.

You will also want a 96+ deep pan with filter, and you will need several precision drill bits because you need to drill the valve body seperator plate. Also you will need two gaskets for the valve body.

Read the tech articles and understand what you are doing before you get out the tools though

JH
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-27-2003, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by JustinH
thats the first simple transmission problem I have seen in a while.

You will need a good set of snap ring pliars to get the snap ring off, and you will need a bottle jack and a block of wood to get the new accumulator back in its bore with the springs. JH
Springs? as in more than one?

: I only pulled one out (3 pieces) no metal chunks in the pan. I'm crossing my fingers that was a typo. my n00b heart just entered my throat.

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny...n/page13.shtml

I see the diagram on that page with the 1-2 accum with the upper and lower spring. there was one spring in there and that was the lower one. I'm freaking out now..

Anyways.. Here is the damage.






Last edited by Rotordemon20B; 09-29-2003 at 02:24 AM.
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-29-2003, 02:25 AM Thread Starter
 
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Edit: wrong thread *stupid me*
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-29-2003, 05:24 PM
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Yes, there's supposed to be two springs for the 1-2 accum. Taking out the bottom one will firm up the 1-2 shift. Yours is apparently missing a spring, which one? The top one?

Also, I'd be more concerned about the damage to the accumulator bore than to the springs or the piston. If that bore is too scarred up, that tranny case is trashed. Snap a couple pics of the accumulator bore itself if you can.

EDIT: Heh, post number 2222 for me, sorry, geekiness has prevailed.

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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-29-2003, 06:57 PM
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hopefully its nothing a lil scotchbrightcan't fix.
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-29-2003, 07:15 PM
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After looking at the picture up close with the piston in it, it doesn't look like the sides of the piston has any scoring, which should also go for the bore as well, hopefully. There's still a chance that the broken spring could have monkey'd it up pretty good.

EDIT: You might also reconsider the 300hp if it rains much where you live. The Mild/Gear change can be a handful if the roads get slippery, and the 300hp can't be any better. The Mild/Gear change also shifts pretty damn firm as it stands, but I prefer a hard shifting auto, most people complain about my 1-2 shift.

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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-29-2003, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
 
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Well I did the <300 J-Mod.. so its too late now.. (no gear change)

The bore didnt have any grooves or visible damage just 111k miles of wear

I'll snap a pic of the bore tomorrow since they are late on the parts and screwed up on the gasket. I needed the separator gasket and the upper VB gasket.. Well I got a Lower VB gasket and a Upper, So I ordered the separator and said hey why not change it all since I am in there.

The parts diagram at the Ford dealer only showed one spring in the 1-2 and thats the lower spring. There was no visible wear in the top of the bore or the accumulator piston where an upper 1-2 spring would sit.

Tell me if I am saying the wrong information... I have about 3 hours total time into automatic trannys I feared them but now since I have gotten my hands on it.. its not as bad as I thought..

if any n00bs reading this.. J-Mod is a CAKEWALK! (even better with a drill press) read up and READ UP GOOD! and you wont screw it up.

Edit: I wasnt sure of what the "Gear Change" Mod was.. So I didn't do it. What does it do? shift at a higher RPM than normal?

Last edited by Rotordemon20B; 09-29-2003 at 08:20 PM.
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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-29-2003, 08:50 PM
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The Gear Change specs are just the Mild specs with a firmer/quicker 1-2 shift. When people change their rearend gears 2 steps or more, they tend to hit the rev limiter before it can grab 2nd. This fixes that problem.

Expect it to shift at much lower points than stock. You'll need a chip to correct that. The 300hp specs are the firmest specs, so it'll take you a few days to get used to bein kicked in the back while cruisin around town.

I can guarantee that its supposed to have a top spring in that 1-2 bore with the new accum piston.

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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-29-2003, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
 
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So the "new" style 1-2 Accum needs a top spring along with the lower one.

Where the "old" style only had the lower spring?

if the above statement is true what is the part number for the upper spring, I need this car by tomorrow at the latest. if the "new" style needs an upper spring, I will just put the old 1-2 accum back in there with the replacement lower spring.


My wife is gonna have my head soon LOL!
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-29-2003, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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Will it LIVE without that upper spring? I've been obviously driving it for ½ of a year since I bought it without the upper.

Edit: found this.. sorry.. I am gonna use the search button now :

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.p...pper+12+spring
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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-29-2003, 09:10 PM
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Well, according to Jerry it needs one, and was supposed to have one from the start. I wouldn't advise putting the old accum back in, but thats up to you.

1-2 top spring F75Z-7F284-BA its a light blue color

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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-29-2003, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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Ok well I'll do the right thing.. Tie my wife down so she doesnt kill me when I say, the grocery getter is gonna be down for another day

Quote:
Originally posted by Silver95Bird
let me explain this better:
if your car came with a bottom spring and no top spring, it was set up for the softest shifts possible. 2 springs is a little stiffer, and only a top spring is the stiffest. If you are doing a j-mod, you can leave out the bottom spring and install the new spring (usually its blue) on the top. It will make a difference, but it won't be neck breaking. Light throttle its nice and smooth, and WOT it's firm like it should be.

blue spring
accumulator
cover
snap ring

Being kicked in the back is fun.. but.. I'll order the upper spring so there will be two in there. and if I get cocky..... I'll just remove the bottom one

Does the above quote sound correct? Agian.. Thanks for all your help.
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-29-2003, 10:30 PM
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Putting in the 1-2 bottom spring will soften the 1-2 shift and leavin it out will make it firmer.

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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-30-2003, 01:11 AM
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It's quite normal not to have an upper 1-2 spring stock, my 93 CV never had one... This setup provides the softest possible shifts. Two springs gives a firmer shift, and only a top spring is firmer still - so make your choice according to your taste. As far as I can tell, no combination of springs is a "wrong" one as far as killing the tranny, it just changes the speed of the shift.

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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-30-2003, 02:11 AM Thread Starter
 
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Awesome you guys.. I'd shake all your hands for holding mine thoughout my virgin journey into this process.

I got the bottom cup, the lower accum spring and the separator gasket coming in tomorrow, I still need to order the upper spring. Perhaps I could go pick it up from where they ship it from (its gotta be local) and get this Bird rolling by tomorrow.


So cross your fingers for me. I'll let you all know right after the first drive
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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-30-2003, 06:57 AM
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Sittin around, awaiting your news.

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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-30-2003, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
 
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it will be another 24 hours.. for the upper spring.

But the good thing is..... I can at least put the VB back together.
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