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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-06-2003, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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4.10 tlok pumpkin

ok i have one of these in the garage.....the gears are striped.....whats involved in puting new 4.10s in this pumpkin???

1995 Ford Thunderbird 4.6 LX - SC wheels, enlarged rear sway bar, full sound system, cut mufflers, PST 1 1/8" rear bar, Eibachs, Mark 8 LCA's, Al housed 3.55 gearset, cut mufflers
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-06-2003, 01:21 PM
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-06-2003, 01:34 PM
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If you are asking what is involved, then you really have no business doing it. I'm not being mean or anything, I'm just telling you how it is.

Everyone I know even those who are experienced mechanics will take their rear ends to a special shop and have them setup the rear end. It is not a job for someone who does not know what they are doing, and it is an easy one to get bad results.

By the time you buy the trac loc and the gears and the case, and all the other parts you are most of the way towards a FRPP pumpkin. Granted, they are 3.73's, not 4.10's but you get the idea.

The best way is just to buy a rear that is already setup and bolt it into your car. Decy F. always has deals going around here and he will be glad to custom build you a rear end with 4.10's and your choice of gear brand and diff brand.

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-11-2003, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
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i dont think you totally read what i said.....its fine....other then the actaul ring and pingion.....im asking whats invovled in just replacing the ring and pinion....b/c me and my friend already built the rear end

1995 Ford Thunderbird 4.6 LX - SC wheels, enlarged rear sway bar, full sound system, cut mufflers, PST 1 1/8" rear bar, Eibachs, Mark 8 LCA's, Al housed 3.55 gearset, cut mufflers
2011 BMX X5 Xdrive50i - BMS Stage 1, Cut Muffler
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7L-Her stock DD
1984 Ford F250 6.9 IDIT - head studs in progress
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-11-2003, 04:31 PM
 
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The ring and pinion are the most tedious and painstakingly brutal part of putting a rear end together. You have to measure backlash, and it involves a special tool. You can check gear mesh, but without checking backlash, your gears will only last a few weeks, and they will be noisy until they give out.

I totally agree with Justin. That's one job left to professionals who know how to do it, or be like me and have a machinist/master mechanic who you gave a lot of parts to help you
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-11-2003, 07:18 PM
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joey ill help you build it. I built the one in your garage now from a bare center section, so ill put the ring and pinion in and we can use all the shims for the pinion and the carrier because we aren't swaping out the carrier so it won't have to be re mic'd and shimed. Anyway that way ill get that 01 gt tranny if i help.... right?

-Derrick-
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-12-2003, 10:48 AM
 
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Hey Guys!!
If you replace the pinion shaft (sounds like that's what's needed) and ring gear, you'll need to "set it up" from square one....pinion depth requires a depth setting gauge to adjust for manufacturing differences between different cases and different pinions. Then pinion bearing preload...requires caution and precision, something to safely lock the pinion shaft, and an inch/lb torque wrench to check the squeeze of the bearings. Because you've had the carrier (with the ring gear) out of the case AND have changed the pinion's position, the relationship of the ring gear to the pinion needs be adjusted (backlash!!! requires patience and a dial indicator) and the preload (squeeze) on the carrier bearings needs be reset...can be a little tricky 'cause backlash affects preload & preload affects backlash. After all is done, a check with some indicator on the gear teeth (Prussian Blue) and it might be ready to run....or to take down and repeat the above...

One setting too far off and the unit may/will grenade...

Seeing as you guys have a spare case to work with...it might be a GOOD LEARNING EXPERIENCE!! Maybe buy a used 4.10 from eBay, get the Ford procedure, and take your time!
Cheers!
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-12-2003, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
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im pretty sure thats what happened b4......one seting to far off

1995 Ford Thunderbird 4.6 LX - SC wheels, enlarged rear sway bar, full sound system, cut mufflers, PST 1 1/8" rear bar, Eibachs, Mark 8 LCA's, Al housed 3.55 gearset, cut mufflers
2011 BMX X5 Xdrive50i - BMS Stage 1, Cut Muffler
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7L-Her stock DD
1984 Ford F250 6.9 IDIT - head studs in progress
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-12-2003, 11:39 AM
 
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I watched the guy put 3.73's in my Olds 442, trying to learn how to do it, and let me tell you, as many times as he had to pull it apart and put it back together, I'll take mine to him anytime, I wouldn't want to deal with that. But it was worth it, because the gears in there have been abused pretty good, and they are 9 years old and are still as quiet as the day he put them in.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-12-2003, 04:21 PM
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Years ago I thought I was going to save some money and purchased the gears and had the best rear guy in the area install them in my Car. By the time he was done I could have purchased the pumpkin and installed it myself for less.

Gears in our cars are not an easy job.

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-12-2003, 05:24 PM Thread Starter
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ill take a stab at doing them myself....the 1st ones blew up....my friend put them together.....but not b/c he put them 2gether wrong...they were always quiet...and saw a descet amount of miles on his other bird before we tried to put them in his new bird and they blew up b/c he was going like 140 sumwere and he stomped on the brakes and when he left off he heard this "clunk clunk" from the diffy....and sure enuf we checked and it was the gears

1995 Ford Thunderbird 4.6 LX - SC wheels, enlarged rear sway bar, full sound system, cut mufflers, PST 1 1/8" rear bar, Eibachs, Mark 8 LCA's, Al housed 3.55 gearset, cut mufflers
2011 BMX X5 Xdrive50i - BMS Stage 1, Cut Muffler
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7L-Her stock DD
1984 Ford F250 6.9 IDIT - head studs in progress
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-12-2003, 05:44 PM
 
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OK, but I'd hate to be the one that says "told you so" I built a 10 second Mustang from the ground up, but I relied on someone else to put the gears in. But who knows, maybe you'll get lucky, but then again, you might chew up a 160.00 set of gears in 2 weeks. I'd rather spend the money, get a warranty, and some peace of mind, not wondering when they are going to blow. it would probably be at 2 AM, on a dark back road, with no houses and no phone for miles.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-12-2003, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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well.......theres only one way to find out......and im going to go the hard way.....actually ur words of caution are aperciated cuase im going to go about it with caution...its just...its good to learn sometime....and why not try.....i wont lose sleep over 160 bucks....and a new one costs well over 600....and i dont have that kinda money.....if i did id have a beater car.....and im not goin to do this for a whille anyways

1995 Ford Thunderbird 4.6 LX - SC wheels, enlarged rear sway bar, full sound system, cut mufflers, PST 1 1/8" rear bar, Eibachs, Mark 8 LCA's, Al housed 3.55 gearset, cut mufflers
2011 BMX X5 Xdrive50i - BMS Stage 1, Cut Muffler
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7L-Her stock DD
1984 Ford F250 6.9 IDIT - head studs in progress
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-12-2003, 09:39 PM
 
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You really need a dial indicator to do it. If you can, get a good manual, and borrow the tools from someone, if you are going to do it. If you were closer to me, I have the tools, and the guy who knows how to do it, and all you would have to pay for is the parts, and know it's done right. The guy is a good friend of mine, and builds race-cars for a living.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-13-2003, 03:47 PM
 
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Have the right tools for the job...setting up gears is very "tool intensive" as well as time intensive. I've started the collection and ordered my last tool today. In order to do it right I would recommend at a minimum:

in/lb torque wrench
ft/lb torque wrench
Digital or dial caliper
Pinion Depth Tool
Dial Indicator
Magnetic base for dial indicator
Bearing seperators
Shop press and assorted arbors
Deadblow hammer
Seal installer kit

I'm also keeping a selection of 2 and 3 jaw pullers handy, just in case. As you can see, there is well over $400 in tools to do the job. Having said that, it probably does not make sense to aquire all that to set up one rear end. I've got at least 3 to do, so it makes sense for me, plus I don't like being told I can't or shouldn't do something . BTW, the local "expert" wanted $800 to do a complete rebuild and gear swap.

Personally, I feel that this is not rocket science or a black art. It does require patience, being maticulate, and the right tools. There is plenty of docs out on the net on how to do it, and what to look out for. If it takes me 8-10 times of assembly and re-assembly, then so be it. Better that than doing housework/yardwork.

And it helps to have a spare diff laying around so you don't have to rush to get it done...as well as an extra crush sleeve or two just in case ;-)

PS - Word is to use FRPP gear sets...they are closest to the original specs and can be set-up quicker and easier than a non-Ford set.
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-13-2003, 05:42 PM
 
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I'll agree with you, It's not rocket science, but without the right tools, it cannot be done right, and you still have to know what you are doing. The tools are expensive, and only have one real use, and that is to put in gears. I know of about 5 people around here that will do a gear install for about 250-350, and they all know what they are doing, so it would be cheaper to get them to do it, than to buy the tools to do it yourself.

Would you agree with me that if you put them in without the right tools, they will not last at least?
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-13-2003, 09:30 PM Thread Starter
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the rear is already set for the gears its getin....it doesnt require as much......work as if the rear was geting diff ring and pinion......it may require some measuremenats....but im sure it will be fine....and i have accsese to all those tools listed......so im set for now

1995 Ford Thunderbird 4.6 LX - SC wheels, enlarged rear sway bar, full sound system, cut mufflers, PST 1 1/8" rear bar, Eibachs, Mark 8 LCA's, Al housed 3.55 gearset, cut mufflers
2011 BMX X5 Xdrive50i - BMS Stage 1, Cut Muffler
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7L-Her stock DD
1984 Ford F250 6.9 IDIT - head studs in progress
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post #18 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-14-2003, 10:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rich95XR7
Would you agree with me that if you put them in without the right tools, they will not last at least?
For the most part yes! But I've seen some pretty creative ways of getting them disassembled, re-assembled and set up with no problems. It probably comes down to the amount of time to get it right...WAY longer without the tools, especially without the pinion depth tool and installing a different mfg gearset and ratio. It's gonna be trial and error with lots of asm and disasm along the way. Impossible, no. Not practical, probably, but that's really up to each individual. However, I think the end result goal is to have the proper markings (mesh), backlash and preloads. How you get there can be done differently, with time and tools being the main factors in how that goal is achieved. As you stated prior, SOME tools are manditory, like the dial indicator and torque wrenches as there is no way to set backlash and preload without them.


Disclaimers: I have never set up rear gears before either. But like others, I have the willingness to try and the urge and ability to learn. I also have the proper tools, have been doing as much research as possible, and I'm pretty confident in my abilities. If I trash a gear set, then so be it, it'll be a learning experence. That's why I have a spare center section, and I'm doing the gears on my Mark first. If that goes good, then I'll do the Bird. If not, I'll have an expert set those up. Either way, I can say that I did it, or at least gave it a fighting chance. I also agree that setting up gears is not for the faint at heart. If you aren't mechanically inclinded or are under a time constraint (like trying to get it done for a Monday morning commute), you probably don't want to attempt it.

Note: I also purchased the Richmond gear install video...waste of money IMO, it was VERY general and didn't explain how to measure backlash or pinion depth for example. Save your $15, there's way better info out on the net for free.

Post up our experiences, successes and failures. That's what these forums are for! Everyone benefits....
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