SC half shafts VS Mark VIII Half shafts - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
 
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SC half shafts VS Mark VIII Half shafts

I've tried looking up part numbers and some seems to be different.

The basic questions are??????


Sizes of Shaft / Max torque

SC
XR7-and Lx T-bird
Mark VIII

Part Numbers:

SC
XR7-and Lx T-bird
Mark VIII

I'm making about 600 lbs of TQ, I dunno how long the stockers will last with a set of BFG DR

Kyle
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 12:20 PM
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Why not just get some aftermarket ones?




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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
 
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Ehhh cause 250 a piece is nutz. I just looked at a new explorer and they have Half shafts. Loks like I'll be doing some measuring. They also use the larger 31 spline.


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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 12:59 PM
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 01:02 PM
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expedition has IRS as well, i thought that the explorer and expedition half shafts fit...

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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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Spend 12 grand greenbird and then you can talk to me about paying to play.

It all comes down to saving money and making a lower ET.

You don't believe that , call any sponsor on the NHRA and they will tell you the same thing. If I can get a part .25 cheaper then guess what . I just made .25 . I already know I'm pissing money away by having a 500hp Cougar, but the more I can save while doin it the better.



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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GreenBird
You have to pay to play.
Or: Pay now, or Pay Later.

I'm all for saving money if possible. But on something like half shafts, I'd say don't skimp.

I have one question: How much torque are the Explorer halfshafts engineered for? My personal rule of thumb is take the numbers from the engine and add 50% to 70%. If than number matches your 600 ft. lbs., then I'd say you're ok.

If not, get something engineered to handle the torque.

Just my .02.

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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
 
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I just sent an e-mail to Visteon Corporation, the manufacture of the Expedition half shafts for dimensions and specs.


http://www.automotive.com numbers
2003 expedition
Horse Power: 260 @ 2500
Torque: 350 @ 2500
Towing Capacity: 8650 lbs
Curb Weight: 5686

With these figures and the rough measurements I took of 1 3/8 diameter half shaft, these should easliy be enough.

Worst case example

4 big dudes in an expedition will weigh in at 6400 lbs. Pulling their 8650 lb motor home. for a grand total of 15,000 lbs. If they are headed up I-26 Towards Asheville NC, they will hit a 5 mile stretch of 6% graded incline( Just so you know thats a huge incline). At that grade and weight , those shafts must see an incredible load.

My car weighs in at 3680 with me in it, and will be less soon.
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 03:33 PM
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That is one area I wouldnt skimp out on. Why dont you get 2 5-speed Super Coupe passenger axles? They are like 1.5 in dia. or close to that. The axles for both sides are the same length so you could use them on the pass. side and drivers side.How are you making about 600lbs of tq? Wow, thats alot.
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 03:35 PM
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Can I see the dyno sheet?
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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by LX-Tasy
That is one area I wouldnt skimp out on. Why dont you get 2 5-speed Super Coupe passenger axles? They are like 1.5 in dia. or close to that. The axles for both sides are the same length so you could use them on the pass. side and drivers side.How are you making about 600lbs of tq? Wow, thats alot.
Chris
Do all 5-speed SCs have the larger passenger side half shafts, or is it only certain years? For some reason I remember it only being certain years.

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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aaron K.


Do all 5-speed SCs have the larger passenger side half shafts, or is it only certain years? For some reason I remember it only being certain years.
Not really sure on that one.Its funny because I had an auto that had the thick axle on the pass. side as well, that must have been a factory screw up. But I do know 89-93 had the thick axles on the pass side, those are all ones I have seen.
Thanks,
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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 03:45 PM Thread Starter
 
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Yep you sure can , soon as it's done. No point in hitting the dyno till i get my gears installed and way bigger tires.

But to satisify you until then here's some good reading.

BTW I have the 3200rpm stall. And to keep things clear I gaurentee I make more than 400lbs of tq on motor alone, couple that to The bottle, well you do the math.

The torque multiplier effect means that a vehicle equipped with an automatic transmission and torque converter will output more torque to the drive wheels than the engine is actually producing. This occurs while the converter is in its "stall mode" (when the turbine is spinning considerably slower than the pump) and during vehicle acceleration. Torque multiplication rapidly decreases until it reaches a ratio of 1:1 (no torque increase over crankshaft torque.) A typical torque converter will have a torque multiplication ratio in the area of 2.5:1. The main point to remember is that all properly functioning torque converters do indeed multiply torque during initial acceleration. The more drastic the change in fluid path caused by the stator from its "natural" return path, the higher the torque multiplication ratio a given converter will have. Torque multiplication does not occur with a manual transmission clutch and pressure plate; hence the need for heavy flywheels, very high numerical gear ratios, and high launch rpm. A more detailed discussion of torque multiplication can get very confusing to the layman as high multiplication ratios can be easily considered the best choice when in fact more variables must be included in the decision. Remember, the ratio is still a factor of the engine torque in the relevant range of the torque converter stall speed, i.e.: a converter with a multiplication ratio of 2.5:1 that stalls 3000 rpm will produce 500 ft.-lbs. of torque at the instance of full throttle acceleration if its coupled to an engine producing 200 ft.-lbs. of torque at 3000 rpm. However, if this same engine produces 300 ft.-lbs. of torque at 4000 rpm, we would be better off with a converter that stalled 4000 rpm with only a 2.0:1 torque multiplication ratio, i.e.: 300 x 2.0 = 600 ft.-lbs. at initial acceleration. Of course it would be better yet to have a 2.5:1 ratio with the 4000 rpm in this example (provided his combination still allows the suspension to work and the tires don't spin.) This is just a brief overview as the actual scenarios are endless.

http://www.tciauto.com/tech_info/tor..._explained.htm
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 03:47 PM
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I am pretty sure it was only the early years that had the large halfshafts. Last I knew ChromeTip was looking to sell a set he had left from before his car blew up.

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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 03:53 PM
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Thanks for the info fellas

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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oc3digital
If I can get a part .25 cheaper then guess what . I just made .25
Kyle
But there is a difference between buying the same part for less, and buying a sub-par part for less. I am shopping around for the fittings I need, and I've found prices ranging from $470 to $320 for the same exact parts. sure I could goto a cheaper brand and get the stuff for ~$180 but that $140 I would "save" would have to be spent 5 times over if one of the cheap fittings fails. Heck, why not use some old rubber hose I have lying around? Because I'd spend ALOT more than $320 if the hose blew off.




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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 09:44 PM
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600 lbs of tq huh? After all the extra effort everywhere else on the car why ***** about a few extra bucks that will help you get that power to the ground. I see by your site you like to talk about how much money you have spent.........

*Nice car BTW

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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
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Spend 12 grand greenbird and then you can talk to me about paying to play.

Kyle
Only $12K???

I'm kinda anxious to see the sheets, too...


I'm not gonna post my numbers until AFTER I get them, but just in case, I'm going with these











A measly $500 well spent. IMHO

Hell, it was worth that much just to get my name on the box...

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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 10:54 PM
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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 11:05 PM
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I don't think I've ever seen a mod list with price details before, I must ask if that's before or after taxes?
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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by LX-Tasy
I had an auto that had the thick axle on the pass. side as well, that must have been a factory screw up.
I've seen this a few times too. A 90 XR7 auto that I'm parting out had the fat shaft, and so do both of my Anny's (they're both auto's too).

-Rod

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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 11:54 PM Thread Starter
 
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Some before some after (taxes that is). It's incomplete too. Like to talk about it's cost, no, but I do like to be informative. Befor this swap I was thinking 5000.00 at the most, but you know how it is . 100 bucks here 100 bucks there, it adds up fast. If I had know that number would double I prolly would have started with a Camaro. You have to admit 4 to 5 grand would make a nice LT1 supercharged ride. And it would be fast.

I Just got a lift for my shop and expect gear tomorrow. Will take pics of the exhaust while she's up. If l can get this damn camcorder to work like I want it I'll set up a mpeg vid.


The second and current Torque converter was $440.00 I think.

Don't get me wrong, those raxles are simply beautiful pieces. But when you put it on paper. I paid 300 for my race c4 tranny. And 680 for a complete 351w with less than 10,000 miles. Considering these guys make thousands of shafts, seems like their materials cost would be low. No special tooling necessary since all are basically made the same. So how does a stock 1 go for 80 bucks (reman unit) whereas a beefier version go for 250. I just cant find logic in that, other than extreme markup.

At fordpartsonline.com they sell new Expedition units which are huge, for 177.00 and 154.00 , and you know these usint have to be solid, it is a 6000 lb vehicle.

But anyways back to the real question. Will mark 8 units work. Seems like a 300hp half shaft would be stronger than the old 200hp versions the coug came with.


Kyle

Last edited by Oc3digital; 05-19-2004 at 12:02 AM.
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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
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But anyways back to the real question. Will mark 8 units work. Seems like a 300hp half shaft would be stronger than the old 200hp versions the coug came with.
Yes, the Mark 8 units will bolt right in (I currently have them in the 90 XR7 that I'm building), but the SC "fat shafts" are much bigger than the Mark 8 shafts.

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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 12:19 AM
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If you want to save money, look for listings by PolosPosiService on ebay. Last set he had, sold for 50$ on ebay. Im getting the next set....if you dont mind waiting a few weeks, he will have more. The boots werent cracked and the joints were in good shape.

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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 96 GoldBird


Hell, it was worth that much just to get my name on the box...

-mike
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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 09:25 AM
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96 Gold Bird,

Is that just for the sticks you bought or all the same sticks anyone else buys for their MN12?

The Parts Bin Special is DEAD! It is being parted out.
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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
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96 Gold Bird,

Is that just for the sticks you bought or all the same sticks anyone else buys for their MN12?
That is their 'stock' half shaft for MN12's. If you order half shafts from Raxles, you'll get the same product, and you too, will have your name on the box... not bad for $500, huh???

My understanding is that they make them predominately for custom made cars that utilize the MN12 IRS... Yes, believe it or not, there are other folks out there that actually desire to have a smooth comforable ride in a powerful car.. like most of us do ....

-mike

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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 10:29 AM
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FYI Raxles also sells stock SC shafts for about $90 a side...this is what I have on my car. Marty is a great guy to deal with but I don't remember my name being on the box. He also provides boxes and prepaid UPS slips to return the cores with

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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 10:36 AM
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Are the expedition shafts the same length? The same splines on the outer end?

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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by timb
I don't remember my name being on the box.
What do you expect for $180???? Did you get a pen knife? I got one of those too, well, Scott did...

Good info though.. I didn't know they offered the SC shafts... Marty is a great guy to deal with...

-mike

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N/A:
Renegade NPI heads/Comp Cams; OEM intake manifold; Bolt-ons
245 rwhp; 13.713 @ 99.35 (Commerce, GA - November 2003)


BLOWN: Renegade NPI heads; Renegade shortblock; Intercooled T-Trim; some other stuff
Pump Gas Numbers - 547 rwhp / 525 ft.lbs; Best Time - 11.388 @ 118.68 (Commerce, GA - November 2007)
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