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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-29-2004, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
 
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Automatic to Manual

Hey Everyone,

I was wondering about something, I know automatics are slower than standards.

So how much would it cost to actually swap it for a standard, is it even possible, etc?

Are there any resources on how to do it?

Thanks,
Eric
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-29-2004, 12:57 PM
 
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-29-2004, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks,

I thought I looked there.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-31-2004, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 3ATM3
Hey Everyone,

I was wondering about something, I know automatics are slower than standards.

They are? Man, I better go tell the guys I know that are running 8's and 9's to ditch their automatics.

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-31-2004, 08:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by 4 Cam Bird


They are? Man, I better go tell the guys I know that are running 8's and 9's to ditch their automatics.

Well, in some cases manuals are faster. I saw a road test with a side by
side test of two Mach 1s and the manual one was faster. I think in normal medium
power cars manuals are faster. I can say my car sure felt faster ater the 5-speed swap.

I know a auto journalist who drove a couple of new Cadilacs, one aout and one manual and he said he couldn't believe they where the same car.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-31-2004, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
 
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So,

Should I do it?
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-31-2004, 02:39 PM
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depends:

- can you afford it
- do you have the resources and knowledge to get it done
- and more importantly, is it something you actually want? Or are you going through the "something different" phase I go through every month or so

math > pasta
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-31-2004, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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Well,

My dad's RX8 is a standard (6 gears mmmhh) and I love driving it, but my car's automatic and I feel like shifting would improve my performance some.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-31-2004, 07:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by 3ATM3
So,

Should I do it?
YES !

Best mod I ever did to my T-bird and if I had to put the auto
back in I would sell the car in heart beat.

But if you like autos then who am I to say...................
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-31-2004, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
 
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Well, I'm wondering if it would be easier just to sell this one and go for another one because they are always for sale around here.
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-31-2004, 07:41 PM
 
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There was never a factory 4.6 with a 5 speed so the closest thing you could get would be a Mustang and it's nice car but not as nice as a T-bird. imo
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-31-2004, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
 
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OH so no Thunderbirds were sold with a standard in the 95 era (I love this body style vs anything other styles). So, it wouldnt be possible to take a Super Coupes SC'ed engine or a brand new engine plus tranny and do that?
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-31-2004, 07:51 PM
 
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You could do that or just try and find a 95 SC then you would good to go !

They didn't make very many manual 95 SCs so it might be a bit of a hunt
or you could get a 92-94 instead.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-31-2004, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
 
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They had SC's in 95? Woah, I didnt know that, that'll be very hard to find I suppose especially a standard.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-05-2004, 12:29 PM
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I believe an automatic would be on a consistant basis faster than the manual only because it doesn't take any skill to shift the car--that is on a drag strip, of course. Road course or just fun driving you can't beat the 5-speed. What truely fun and fast 'sporty' cars from the factory come with automatics?? Oh, I know a few do only to satisfy the lazy........
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-05-2004, 12:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by 4 Cam Bird


They are? Man, I better go tell the guys I know that are running 8's and 9's to ditch their automatics.
Or how the tranny in the lightning only uses 11% of the drive train power to run, where a 5 speed uses 15%.
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-06-2004, 10:24 PM
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Both '94 and '95 5-Speed Supercoupes are rare. Only approximately 400-500 were produced each year. The T-45 ONLY will bolt up but needs a $400 (mn12performance.com) adapter so the shifter comes up through the console in the right place. I'm surprised no one has said yet...

Automatic trannies are more consistent in drag racing, but as said before, a 5 or 6 speed is much more fun and "faster" in both daily driving and autocross use. Also keep in mind that manual transissions are much less susceptible to extreme wear caused by prolonged high speeds due to the fact that they do not rely on regulated friction (overdrive band) to maintain engine speeds while coasting (above 40mph w/OD on in our case). In addition, because the engine has the ability to turn even slower than one mated to an automatic (depending on the driver's shifting schedule) engine wear may be reduced as well (due to fewer rotations of the engine).

When a transmission includes more usable gear ratios (5 or 6 vs. 4), these ratios are obviously closer together and therefore allow the engine to operate in its powerband relatively more often. The gearset in a 4R70-W is referred to as "wide-ratio" for just this reason: each "gear's" ratio is fairly far from that of the next (i.e. 1st 3.1:1 2nd 2.2:1 vs. 1st 3.2:1 2nd 2.6:1 and so on). A five or six speed (or seven or eight for that matter) close-ratio transmission will therefore provide for a large number of ratios wherein the engine may operate at optimal RPM levels. Imagine the 4.6 engine being able to operate between 3k and 6k RPMs all the time; the car would be far more responsive and acceleration would improve greatly. This is not possible with a wide-range transmission and made somewhat possible with a close-range transmission for reasons I've mentioned in this post.

There, now I hope that helps

-DG-

Edit: Thanks for the correction, I had a bad feeling about the M5R2 and was unsure about T-5 vs. T-45. Much thanks!

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Last edited by DGFourSixLX; 06-07-2004 at 08:44 PM.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-07-2004, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DGFourSixLX
Both '94 and '95 5-Speed Supercoupes are rare. Only approximately 400-500 were produced each year. The 5-speed trannies are all mostly the same, so you should be able to get a pre-94 M5R2 (model number of tranny) and bolt it up. The T-5 will bolt up but needs a $400 (mn12performance.com) adapter so the shifter comes up through the console in the right place. I'm surprised no one has said yet...

Automatic trannies are more consistent in drag racing, but as said before, a 5 or 6 speed is much more fun and "faster" in both daily driving and autocross use. Also keep in mind that manual transissions are much less susceptible to extreme wear caused by prolonged high speeds due to the fact that they do not rely on regulated friction (overdrive band) to maintain engine speeds while coasting (above 40mph w/OD on in our case). In addition, because the engine has the ability to turn even slower than one mated to an automatic (depending on the driver's shifting schedule) engine wear may be reduced as well (due to fewer rotations of the engine).

When a transmission includes more usable gear ratios (5 or 6 vs. 4), these ratios are obviously closer together and therefore allow the engine to operate in its powerband relatively more often. The gearset in a 4R70-W is referred to as "wide-ratio" for just this reason: each "gear's" ratio is fairly far from that of the next (i.e. 1st 3.1:1 2nd 2.2:1 vs. 1st 3.2:1 2nd 2.6:1 and so on). A five or six speed (or seven or eight for that matter) close-ratio transmission will therefore provide for a large number of ratios wherein the engine may operate at optimal RPM levels. Imagine the 4.6 engine being able to operate between 3k and 6k RPMs all the time; the car would be far more responsive and acceleration would improve greatly. This is not possible with a wide-range transmission and made somewhat possible with a close-range transmission for reasons I've mentioned in this post.

There, now I hope that helps

-DG-

Just so there's no confusion the M5R2 & T-5 will NOT bolt up to the 4.6 V8. You would need a T-45. There are tech articles posted on this swap. If 3ATM3s plan is to pick up a 94 or 95 SC with an auto (as you say the manuals are rare) he could swap in either M5R2 or T-5 trannys. The simplest & least costly would be to use the M5R2. If he keeps his 4.6 than he will need a T-45.

3ATM3, do all your homework before stepping into this project.

Jim
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-07-2004, 03:17 PM
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not to mention all the cash you'll need

with all the money you'll spend, you can seriously start modding your engine but if you want my personal opinion...
GO FOR IT!!

-Orlando

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 01:55 PM
 
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Just curious, about how much does the manual swap cost? I had considered doing it a while back, but then I actually learned how autos work and the whole torque multiplication thing appealed to me greatly. But I never did find out an estimated cost, always "a whole lot of money" which is a pretty subjective statement.
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