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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-27-2004, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
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5speed swappers please have a look.

the trans in my car has seen better days, ive always wanted to do the 5speed swap so i guess now would be the best time to do that. first thing is how much have you guys spent on doing the entire swap? what tricks did you learn while doing the swap to make it easier?

last, has anyone put a 6 speed in yet or just 5speeds?

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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-28-2004, 08:48 AM
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-28-2004, 09:55 AM
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I've kind of been considering a 6-speed swap also. A 6-speed is a lot bigger than a T-45 I think and it takes some transmission tunnel persuasion to get a 5 speed in from what I have read. So if you are going to do a 6 speed, have the BFH ready. I have been wondering about driveshaft length. I supposed if I searched I migh find out the answer. When I actually get to where I have some money to do a swap with I'll search a little harder. That is kind of a hang up for me already having an MMX shaft that I know no one will give me anything for compared to what it cost and then having to buy another one.

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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-28-2004, 06:21 PM
 
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Re: 6-spd (4 + 2)

I'd LOVE to have a 6-spd (4 + 2) since I get the upshift light, in 5th. gear w/3.27's.

OR a G-Force T-5, with a .5 OD ratio, instead of my current .75 OD ratio in my late model M5R2. Course a T-5 conversion requires the mn12performance shifter extension kit, and a T-56 shifter. Ahhhhh, the price we pay, for going Quick AND Fast!!!!!

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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-28-2004, 08:21 PM
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The T56 is pretty much the same size as the M5R2 in the SC. There's plenty of room.

(edited for spelling )

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Last edited by MarksM; 12-28-2004 at 08:36 PM.
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-28-2004, 08:29 PM
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You might want to look into geting a new manual transmission out of a 05 mustang gt along with the shifter mechanism and cables. In 2005 ford gave the tremec 3650 a remote shifter linkage I think it is done with cables. The good thing about this is that you can mount the transmission and have the shifter in the stock location as the automatic. The linkage will have to be modified some but that might not be nowhere near as much of a problem compared to extending the shifter box.
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-28-2004, 09:05 PM
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For the curious. Here's a list of parts I have collected for my T56 swap so far. Since I already have a clutch pedal and such, that's not included.

I will finally have a decent garage in a couple of months and this long awaited swap shall finally occur. There will be pictures.

The desire to use a mix of the stock GM slave connected to the stock Ford Master may not work. We'll see. The neat thing is, the Ford Hose connector fits into the GM slave cylinder perfectly.


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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-28-2004, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blown96bird
You might want to look into geting a new manual transmission out of a 05 mustang gt along with the shifter mechanism and cables. In 2005 ford gave the tremec 3650 a remote shifter linkage I think it is done with cables. The good thing about this is that you can mount the transmission and have the shifter in the stock location as the automatic. The linkage will have to be modified some but that might not be nowhere near as much of a problem compared to extending the shifter box.
you know thats a good point, and i think they have a hydraulic clutch too , i ll check that out tomamrow while at work

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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-28-2004, 09:53 PM
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I'm in a sharing mood this evening. More info.. measurements and stuff. This is a jpg so your browser may shrink it.

Note dimension "A" That is why I chose the GM, LS1 T56, over any other. The shifter is very close to the M5R2 shifter location.


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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-29-2004, 07:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarksM
The T56 is pretty much the same size as the M5R2 in the SC. There's plenty of room.

(edited for spelling )
Speaking of the M5R2, why is it not used over the T45/T3650? Because it came in stock in Tbirds and can handle the 300+ ft/lbs of torque the sc 6cyl puts out, the shifter location should be fine, right? No fab, no hassle. Am I off base here?
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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-29-2004, 08:16 AM
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back to mark's idea on the 05 stang, it uses a hydraulic clutch , so that is quite a feasable option

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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-29-2004, 08:49 AM
 
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Personally I don't see the point in a T-56 except for the strength of it.
It has 2 over drive gears but basically the same ratios up to 5th gear
so it's not like you can run 4.11 or 4.56 rear gears with it. Also I think it will be very tight
there is limited room as is with the T-45.

I don't want to be a kill joy but I'm sure the 05 Mustang tranny will be $$$$$$$$$
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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-29-2004, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbickers
Speaking of the M5R2, why is it not used over the T45/T3650? Because it came in stock in Tbirds and can handle the 300+ ft/lbs of torque the sc 6cyl puts out, the shifter location should be fine, right? No fab, no hassle. Am I off base here?
It will work on a 302 Bird. The mod motors have a different bellhousing bolt pattern. The M5R2 may be able to handle the torque but it shifts like a Truck transmission and that's exactly what it was designed for.

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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-29-2004, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott
Personally I don't see the point in a T-56 except for the strength of it.
It has 2 over drive gears but basically the same ratios up to 5th gear
so it's not like you can run 4.11 or 4.56 rear gears with it. Also I think it will be very tight
there is limited room as is with the T-45.
From my calculations I should be turning about the same RPM at 70 MPH with the T56 and 3.73's that I do now with the M5R2 and 2.73's. So, even though the trans gearing may be somewhat similar, It will have a better rear ratio for launching. Not to mention a smoother shift from a more modern transmission.

I'm still not understanding where everyone gets the idea the T45 is a tight fit. The M5R2 is not a small transmission and the T56 is similar in size.

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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-29-2004, 07:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarksM

I'm still not understanding where everyone gets the idea the T45 is a tight fit. The M5R2 is not a small transmission and the T56 is similar in size.
Ummm , because I have put a T-45 in and it a tight fit. The T-56 is bigger.
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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-29-2004, 09:31 PM
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Thanks to Mike for sharing.

There are already a few Tbirds running around with T-56's, but I don't think the owners post on here.

At most you just need to pound a bit on the trans tunnel to make some room for the T-56, from what I've heard you have to do the same for some of the Tremec 5-speeds.
but not every car or it's motor/cradle mounting is going to be exactly the same.

also ddperformance.com has some dimensions for the various transmissions.

The T56 shifter will require a different offset than the T-45, if I remember right it's a bit closer to the right spot, but I may be wrong.

Definately requires a different length shaft, I would hope a shorter one, but I don't know.

Of course if you have a 4.6 you have to make sure to get one with the correct bellhousing pattern, and to use a typical mustang clutch, you may have to get one with the right input splines.

There is a big benefit if you can run a .50 top gear with 4.56 or 4.30 gears, you get tons of torque multiplication down low, without sacrificing streetability and RRR's at high speeds.

It is however a heavier trans, and to get one that's rated at the 650 ft lbs you have to have the viper gear set with the 2.66 first gear.

Here is the Ford 4.6 T-56 with viper gearset
http://ddperformance.com/images/46viper1.jpg
It has the following ratios:
2.66/1.78/1.30/1.00/.74/.50

The wide ratio version is also available:
2.97/2.07/1.43/1.00/.80/.62


Although I think some guys have mixed and matched gearsets to get a bit taller 6th gear on the wide ratio gearset,(yet retaining the lower first gear, etc)

Sounds like a fun project!!

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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-29-2004, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott
Personally I don't see the point in a T-56 except for the strength of it.
It has 2 over drive gears but basically the same ratios up to 5th gear
so it's not like you can run 4.11 or 4.56 rear gears with it. Also I think it will be very tight
there is limited room as is with the T-45.

I don't want to be a kill joy but I'm sure the 05 Mustang tranny will be $$$$$$$$$
I see you want to be one of the few with a stick in your car, hahaha.

There is a benefit to the taller gears on the close ratio gearset version of the t-56,

Here's a T5 with a 330 ftlbs rating
2.95/1.94/1.34/1.00/.63

Here's a T-56 with a 650 ftlbs torque rating
2.66/1.78/1.30/1.00/.74/.50

You could drive around with 4.30's or 4.56's all day.

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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-29-2004, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeps
Thanks to Mike for sharing.

At most you just need to pound a bit on the trans tunnel to make some room for the T-56, from what I've heard you have to do the same for some of the Tremec 5-speeds.
but not every car or it's motor/cradle mounting is going to be exactly the same.
Yes, "Tight fit" is a relative thing.

Quote:
also ddperformance.com has some dimensions for the various transmissions.
That's where that diagram came from. He wanted well over 3K to build a T56 for me.

Quote:
The T56 shifter will require a different offset than the T-45, if I remember right it's a bit closer to the right spot, but I may be wrong.
It's centered but the Camaro LS1/LT1 Trans have a different tailhousing that put it farther back.

Quote:
Definately requires a different length shaft, I would hope a shorter one, but I don't know.
It's actually a little bit shorter than my M5R2 so I needed a longer shaft. Not so sure in comparison to a 4R70W.

Quote:
Of course if you have a 4.6 you have to make sure to get one with the correct bellhousing pattern, and to use a typical mustang clutch, you may have to get one with the right input splines.
McLeod's universal bellhousings for the mod motor takes care of the first part. Using a TKO clutch with the GM splined clutch disc takes care of the second.

Quote:
There is a big benefit if you can run a .50 top gear with 4.56 or 4.30 gears, you get tons of torque multiplication down low, without sacrificing streetability and RRR's at high speeds.
I chose the 3.73's as a happy medium. I wanted to keep the RPM's near stock. I liked my 30 mpg on the highway. Of course it will be less with the Autorotor and associated lead foot.

Quote:
It is however a heavier trans, and to get one that's rated at the 550 ft lbs you have to have the viper gear set with the 2.66 first gear.
I don't know what the weight difference is between the M5R2 and the T56 but from what I've heard, I'll wager it's not more than 30 pounds, if that much. I need to find a way to weigh these things. My weak, skinny arse can't pick up the T56 by myself so I think it's about 150 lbs.

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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-29-2004, 10:13 PM
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Damn, somebody told me it was heaver than the 5 speed or the 4r70w, I have carried my 4r70w out to my car, and lowered it into the trunk, and it's definately all of 200 lbs.

I just lowered a 215 lbs welder out of my Jeep the other day, man I'm getting old!!! Maybe gravity has increased?

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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-29-2004, 10:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeps
I see you want to be one of the few with a stick in your car, hahaha.

There is a benefit to the taller gears on the close ratio gearset version of the t-56,

Here's a T5 with a 330 ftlbs rating
2.95/1.94/1.34/1.00/.63

Here's a T-56 with a 650 ftlbs torque rating
2.66/1.78/1.30/1.00/.74/.50

You could drive around with 4.30's or 4.56's all day.

As far as I know most T-56 have the 3.30 first gear ratio and that's just too
low with 3.73 rear gears. The 2.95 or 2.66 would be great.

Trust me, with my T-45 and a 3.30 1st gear it a very short pull before second gear is needed.
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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-29-2004, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott
As far as I know most T-56 have the 3.30 first gear ratio and that's just too
low with 3.73 rear gears. The 2.95 or 2.66 would be great.

Trust me, with my T-45 and a 3.30 1st gear it a very short pull before second gear is needed.
http://ddperformance.com/t56__6_spee...nsmissions.htm

Your right the 2.95 or 2.66 would be ideal, and those happen to be the only 1st gear ratio's available on the T-56 for Ford applications.

1st gear would almost be a waste on your T-45 and 4.56's.

Not so on a T56

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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-29-2004, 11:04 PM
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Tremec lists the T56 at 129 lbs.

The one I have has the 2.66 first gear. 2.66/1.78/1.30/1.00/.74/.50

I'm looking forward to actually geting started on this, after so long. I bought the Trans almost 3 years ago, when I was still unemployed.

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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-30-2004, 12:27 AM
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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-27-2005, 04:25 AM
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I've been helping my friend with his '94 Camaro Z28 a lot since he got it last year. It has a T-56 and we've been really building this car up. We swapped the motor and tranny with newer/tougher ones. It's a 355ci LT1 which easily puts over 415 hp through the flywheel. I will say you just can't beat a 6-speed. This is why it REALLY bugs me when people say things like "what do you need a 6-speed for? 2 OD gears?" The rear carries a 4.11 rear gear and not only can that car break your seats, but even with that gear it's very streetable. It has insane torque, it could still go over 200 mph if it had enough power, and it still revs low in 6th on the highway. Not only that, the shift quality definitely surpasses that of the M5R2. The Camaro's T-56 with short throw and Spec Stage III clutch is VERY capable of incredibly fast shifts. All these things you can't really accomplish at once with a 5-speed no matter what gear you choose. You just can't beat a 6-speed, so it's a shame I live too far away from MarksM or I'd be offering a helping hand with his swap because he'll be one happy camper when that is all said and done. I plan to do it if it works out good.

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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-27-2005, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifting Thunder
I've been helping my friend with his '94 Camaro Z28 a lot since he got it last year. It has a T-56 and we've been really building this car up. We swapped the motor and tranny with newer/tougher ones. It's a 355ci LT1 which easily puts over 415 hp through the flywheel. I will say you just can't beat a 6-speed. This is why it REALLY bugs me when people say things like "what do you need a 6-speed for? 2 OD gears?" The rear carries a 4.11 rear gear and not only can that car break your seats, but even with that gear it's very streetable. It has insane torque, it could still go over 200 mph if it had enough power, and it still revs low in 6th on the highway. Not only that, the shift quality definitely surpasses that of the M5R2. The Camaro's T-56 with short throw and Spec Stage III clutch is VERY capable of incredibly fast shifts. All these things you can't really accomplish at once with a 5-speed no matter what gear you choose. You just can't beat a 6-speed, so it's a shame I live too far away from MarksM or I'd be offering a helping hand with his swap because he'll be one happy camper when that is all said and done. I plan to do it if it works out good.
Ditto that. Having owned a 96SS with the T56 and my XR7 with an excellent condition late model M5R2 in it at the same time and having driven the cars many times back to back, the T56 is a wet dream. And yes, both cars were (are) solid low 12 sec performers. With practice the T56 can even be driven clutchless. I would never try that with the M5R2.
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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-09-2005, 09:42 PM
 
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Keep us up to date on how this is going MarksM.........after having my 02 SS 6 speed camaro.......I can't stand the 5 speed in my SC. I'll be right behind you on this swap.
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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-24-2005, 12:14 PM
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MarkM...

Thanks for your help on the side lines. I was at Carlisle, PA looking for stuff for this swap. The only good T-56 was being sold for $1250.00!!! I was thinkin', "ain't no way!!!". I have a friend of mine that has one though, and he may not be needing it. I will need to find out the gear ratio. I am wanting the 2.66 first gear.

Still need most of what is on your list in the above post, but little by little I am coming along. So I will see what happens here in the next 6 months or so. I am very motivated to get this conversion done.


Thanks again for your assistance.

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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 12:48 AM
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Which, in your opinion, would be better to run with 3.73's-the close ratio or wide ratio t56? Bear in mind it is for mostly daily driver street car.
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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-31-2006, 12:17 AM
 
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Reviving the thread

So, how are the T56 swaps coming??
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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-02-2006, 07:20 AM
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any word on how these are coming along, or are they?
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