3800 Stall TC... What can I expect - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-03-2005, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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3800 Stall TC... What can I expect

I am planning on getting one here in the next few weeks so I can get the bird moving again! I was wondering what I can expect to see after I get it installed.. Like how will normal dirving be? How will the strip be? If I slam on the gas is it going to go like it always has before? Thanks for the info!

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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-03-2005, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrAzyT
I am planning on getting one here in the next few weeks so I can get the bird moving again! I was wondering what I can expect to see after I get it installed.. Like how will normal dirving be? How will the strip be? If I slam on the gas is it going to go like it always has before? Thanks for the info!

Krazy
Did I read that correctly as 3800 rpm stall? Isn't that a bit high for the streets?

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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-03-2005, 08:55 AM
 
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You can expect a major loss of gas mileage with city driving, and a car that feels really sluggish in traffic.
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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-03-2005, 09:14 AM Thread Starter
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yay! What would be somthing a little better but still quick? 3200?? Car is a summer rider

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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-03-2005, 11:06 AM
 
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3200 is pretty good for me, but I'm going to 3600, and will deal with the loss.

Just an example:

We were trying to line up some cars for a photo opportunity, one of them had a 3600 stall, and it took quite a while to get it perfectly lined up, because once it started moving, it didn't just want to move a couple inches.
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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-03-2005, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich95XR7
We were trying to line up some cars for a photo opportunity, one of them had a 3600 stall, and it took quite a while to get it perfectly lined up, because once it started moving, it didn't just want to move a couple inches.
I think after a few minutes I would have just gotten a few guys and pushed it.

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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-03-2005, 11:16 AM
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I didn't notice "a major loss of gas mileage with city driving, and a car that feels really sluggish in traffic" and I have a 3800 stall converter.
My car is anything but sluggish in traffic and the mileage may have dropped in the city, but not more than may a mpg or two. Not enough for me to notice it. As for stall, I think a 3800 is perfect. But, I am one of those people who like to have a fast car. The things I am reading above do not apply to my car in the least. Bret (cougar ricer) drove my car, just ask him.
It all depends on the converter and how it was made. Fortunately we have a master amongst us. Talk to Alan (dirtyd0g) and he can tell you what is what. The things you all are talking about as being problems are the result of a poorly designed and built converter.

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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-03-2005, 11:33 AM
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I think alot of the difference is the tune. SCT tuners definately change the lockup strategy. I have driven Darrin's mustang and with the exception of it just being inpossible to drive in the snow and difficult to drive in the rain it is just better. It also can inch forward slowly if you feather the throttle. Actually to my surprise it still creeps on level ground. The 2800 in Brett's car under light throttle feels no different than a stock converter. Under heavy throttle it is way different. Same goes for the converter in my car. I have decided 2800 is not enough for me (go figure) I just put that in until I get our winter car built so that it can still be driven in the snow if I have to.
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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-03-2005, 11:43 AM
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Alan, I never told you and I meant to. I tested that SCT theory and set the computer back to stock. It didn't make a lick of difference on how the converter performed. As a matter of fact the lockup schedule I am using right now is almost exactly stock because I liked it better. I did move my WOT shift points up after the PI intake and cams to take advantage of that
And yeah, forget about it in the snow. I have enough of the right kind of rubber on the ground to make rain driving ok and I never could get it to move in the snow anyway.
My original planned response to the question that started this thread was going to be one word... FUN!

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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-03-2005, 11:45 AM
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Even better. What about lockup in 2nd and at wot?

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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-03-2005, 11:55 AM
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I did make changes to the lockup at WOT after the PI stuff, but for the most part it is still almost the same as stock. When you drove it the shift and lockup schedules were stock. I went home and looked at the program after we talked about it and couldn't believe it. I had to call Ryan at SCT to make sure. He looked and said that there was nothing changed in any the transmission stuff on that original tune.
So on my car the converter worked perfectly fine on stock programming. With all the rest of the stuff I need to tweak it still, but it is nitpicking in all honesty.

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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-03-2005, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrAzyT
3800 Stall TC... What can I expect
Krazy

About .5 second off of your 1/4 miles times.
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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-03-2005, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Z.
About .5 second off of your 1/4 miles times.
I got a little more than that and the timeslips to prove it

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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-04-2005, 03:23 PM
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I am running what was to be a 3500 9 1/2 inch in mine, but seems closer to 3800-4000. It works just fine, but takes a little getting use to on the road at slow cursing speeds. Sort of like a large rubber band between the engine and trans. Under slight pressing of the gas pedal, the engine speeds up slightly, but not much initial increase in speed. A little bit more gas, and hold on. If I press the gas hard, it pins you in the seat. If you have ever driven a go cart, you have felt the same thing. The fun part, is full throttle starts. I have poly seats in mine with no roll bar and back brace for the seats yet, so have only done a few of these. It got into the power band so fast, I was worried about the seat breaking. For a daily driver, I would keep the stall speed at 3200 rpms, or lower, but never closer than 500 rpms from your max torque RPM. For a week end play car, go for 2-300 below max torque RPM, and hold on.....

Note: Make sure you increase the size of your external trans cooler as the stall speed goes up, since it will generate lots of heat. I am running 2 24,000 GVW B&M coolers on mine.

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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-04-2005, 04:34 PM
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For street, you fellas with these tall stalls are generating alot of heat and even if your cruise speed keeps the RPM at about 3000 you are just wasting the energy on the hiway until you meet or excced the stall. It will work.

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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-04-2005, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverFox
For street, you fellas with these tall stalls are generating alot of heat and even if your cruise speed keeps the RPM at about 3000 you are just wasting the energy on the hiway until you meet or excced the stall. It will work.
That is the beauty of lockup transmissions, those problems you mentioned do not exist on the highway.
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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-04-2005, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
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should I just get the 3800 or go lower?? I would like to get my car in running condition again.. it is only a summer car also so no winter and barely any rain.. Thanks for everyone opinions!

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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-04-2005, 09:48 PM
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You list your max torque as 287 RWTQ, so what RPM is that at? That is the main factor to determing the max stall speed you want to use. It should be below the max torque RPM.

-----1993 Bird 5.0------
393 stroker, Vortech YSi, on E85
Lentech Strip Terminator & 4,000+ RPM stall converter
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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-05-2005, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
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3750 rpm for max tq

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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-05-2005, 08:49 AM
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OK, if it is driven on the street mostly, with strip use once or twice a month, I would get a 3000 stall. If weeked play car with mostly in town driving, and weekly trips to the strip, I would go for around 3500. Strip only car, 3800. Most off the shelf converters give the stall speeds that average weight/hp cars may get. If you want one within 500 RPMs of your max torque RPM, you should really have it custom built to your car specs. With a off the shelf converter, If your enine peak torque is much more than they figured there stall for, you will stall above your peak, and you will launch softer sibce your on the declining side of the torque curve. With you having an above average 4.6, I would either get a custom one, or a off the shelf 3200 rpm, and count on your added torque stalling it higher. Before all these conveter companys were around, the cheap easy way to up the stall speed was to put a 6 cyl converter on a mild built V8. The higher torque of the V8 would stall the converter 5-800 RPMs than the factory designed it for.

-----1993 Bird 5.0------
393 stroker, Vortech YSi, on E85
Lentech Strip Terminator & 4,000+ RPM stall converter
Detroit Locker with 3.55 gears.
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post #21 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-07-2005, 10:00 AM
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One rule I have followed....don't know where I picked it up, Lentech maybe, says take your MAX torque RPM and buy a TC that stalls roughly between 500 - 700 rpm bellow that. It has worked for all my cars. That means you are looking at a 3000-3200 stall as your best choice for all around street/performance use.
Then it goes into the quality of the stall, I just put a 9" Lentech Stall on an SC and it is junk in my opinion.....WAY LOOSE, the engine only drops like 200 rpm on the shift.....but the customer likes it for now.

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post #22 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-07-2005, 11:42 AM
 
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I would agree, with that torque, 3200 would be about perfect for you, that's what I got, and it seems to be a good mix of performance and driveability.
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post #23 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-07-2005, 12:12 PM
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I agree too. If your torque peak is where you say it is then a 3200 is about right.
Do you have a dyno graph to show?

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post #24 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-07-2005, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
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its going to change in about 2 months.. I will having VT stage 2 cams, kooks headers, highflow cats.. pretty much everything you can get minus porting.. I also added accufab 75mm tb and c&l upper intake so it is probally changing.. i am going with a 3500 from justinh

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post #25 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-07-2005, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrAzyT
i am going with a 3500 from justinh
Well, you just bought yourself a fine converter there KrAzyT. Fine choice.

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post #26 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-07-2005, 11:39 PM
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i was gonna say go with a 3400 or so thatll probably all the conveter you need, but hey 3500, hot, it should feel extra nice, so is 3200 or 3000 to much for a stock motor with just bolt ons if you wanna roll down the 1320 like crazy, i dont think 3200 would be wayyyy to much for it, im just curious if i go out and get a converter when the next trans blows (and probably will have stock motor internals) that like a 3200 would be to much or not

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post #27 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-07-2005, 11:43 PM Thread Starter
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JL, justin and one other person... cant recall the name told me to go with 4000.. im not really stock motor wise.. heads, vt cams and headers.. thats pretty much all i can do fornow..

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post #28 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-08-2005, 06:46 AM
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Perhaps you gave them more info to go on than we had here. 4000 is about right for a car that sees the strip a lot, but pushing it for most people on the street. Definitely not saying that it is too much though.
Again, I like the converter you bought. You will too.

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post #29 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-08-2005, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyICU
i was gonna say go with a 3400 or so thatll probably all the conveter you need, but hey 3500, hot, it should feel extra nice, so is 3200 or 3000 to much for a stock motor with just bolt ons if you wanna roll down the 1320 like crazy, i dont think 3200 would be wayyyy to much for it, im just curious if i go out and get a converter when the next trans blows (and probably will have stock motor internals) that like a 3200 would be to much or not
I surely wouldn't fear a 3200 I have a 2800 in mine and it still begs for more. It's getting a unit just like these we are talking about when I change it again.
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post #30 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-08-2005, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
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Well the car is mainly used just for summertime. Will never see snow, I can't stand washing under the car. This summer it will have:

PI Heads
VT Stage 2 Cams
Comp Cam Valve Springs
Kooks Headers
Highflow Cats
C&L Upper Intake
Accufab Throttle Body 75mm
Steeda UD Pullies
Dual 24k Transmission Coolers
01 GT Transmission with only 5k on it
3.73s with Trac-loc
""3500-3800 Stall TC""
Dynotune
80mm LMAF
GT Intake Tube and Airbox
***possibily 75shot n2o***


What you guys think ill run? and what kind of RWHP and RWTQ can I expect?

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