Riddle me this (possible perf mod) - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-12-2005, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
3rd Gear Poster
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Arlington, TX
Age: 39
Posts: 156
Riddle me this (possible perf mod)

So, ever since my dad got a '02 Z06 Vette (lucky bastard), I've been infatuated with the cars. So soon I found myself driving a '95 Tbird and here I am. Little history lesson, the Tbird that first came out in the '50s was meant to be the Vette's competition from Ford. Then Ford went lord knows where with the design and eventually came up with the 'Stang... But what kind of competition is that?

Anyway, I've been mulling over the possibility of making the Tbird a worthy competitor. Seriously, stop laughing. I know the weight is a HUGE issue, but that is an issue American cars need to get around, everything's heavy in America. I have accepted this and am attempting to work around it. But, both cars are rear drive with IRS so...

We have an advantage with the IRS... The pumpkin diff is stationary. So my question, has anyone thought about mounting the tranny in the rear, right on the pumpkin like the vette? I'm thinking after I get all the kinks worked out of the suspension, this could be the next thing, giving it better weight distribution.

My possible issues in bolting up the T-45 (or T-56 if I'm lucky)... You could keep the bellhousing on the motor to house the flywheel and starter, but the problem is connecting the flywheel to the clutch and thus the clutch to the tranny. Perhaps using a vette tranny is in order? Or just scrap the idea and buy a Vette?

You let me know your thoughts.


C6 underskin...






Dave
Samurai is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-12-2005, 11:53 AM
Awaiting E-Mail Confirmation
 
tinman_72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: North GA
Posts: 2,638
Gee... I'm not going to say that its impossible. Anything is possible with enough funds and time. Is there any reason that you want to put the tranny in the rear other than "that's the way the Corvette is"? Will you see any performance gains? You have to realize that the Corvette's body is designed around the drivetrain/chassis, so they had room to mount the tranny in the back. You would have to use a fuel cell in the trunk and remove the rear seats for that to work in a T-bird.
tinman_72 is offline  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-12-2005, 12:06 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Cullman, AL
Age: 56
Posts: 7,758
Send a message via AIM to 94 Daily Driven 4.6L
I'll agree with tinman 72, there is no "good" (i.e. cost effective) reason to put the transmission in the rear. The obvious benefit is the more balanced weight distribution, which does lead itself to better handling. However, IMHO it is not “necessary”.

And with that said, take the LARGE amount of money that would be spent on doing that swap and put it elsewhere. With the amount of money you’re talking about spending to do just that one modification, you could build a T’Bird that would rival a Vette. Maybe not beat it in every way, but it would definitely give it a run for its money.

Oh, and just to mention something that I find hilarious… the Vette guys brag about how their cars “have the transmissions in the rear”…. Well, I hate to rain on their parades, but the Porsche 928 always came with the transmission in the rear…. And they came out in 1979!!! So the Vette isn’t anything new at all!!!

97 Lincoln Mark VIII LSC (Chip'd, 3.73 T/L... so far... )
97 Ford Aspire (Slow, but getting 36 mpg (f'n Ethenol!! )
84 F250 Dually w/6.9L Diesel (7.3L IDI pending)
73 Mercury Cougar Convertible w/351C 4V (Partially Restored)
69 F100 LWB w/460 Engine
76 Glastron Carlson 23' Jet Boat w/460 CJ Engine
94 Daily Driven 4.6L is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-12-2005, 12:06 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 744
would be cheaper to just buy a vette. . .those mods are insane

the '55 bird was not supposed to "compete" with the vette. they mereasly co-existed at the same time. the vette was supposed to be a performance oriented roadster--and honestly it sucked at it. the bird was supposed to be a personal sports/luxary convertible--i.e a 2nd car that was fun, but still kinda practical. the vette did so poorly in sales it was supposed to end production in '55/'56, but the bird sold very well, thus embrassing the hell out of GM. GM was forced to fix the vette's problems to save face.

the reason for the bird's change in appearnce was due to market suggestions of having a 4 door instead of a two, and just like every other american car, it got bigger and bigger with time, untill a point is reached when you start over with a tiny car, and attempt to repeat the process. examples of cars that got bigger and bigger and then made tiny: mustang (mustang II) and the bronco (bronco II)
tomaso12 is offline  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-12-2005, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
3rd Gear Poster
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Arlington, TX
Age: 39
Posts: 156
Yes, true, but the mounting is the least of my worries. Of course the fuel tank would go, and the backseat is not an issue. The whole purpose is to get better weight distribtion and better performance on the road course.

Besides, it's all just thoughts and dreams and doing something different if the chance arises.

Dave
Samurai is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-12-2005, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
3rd Gear Poster
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Arlington, TX
Age: 39
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94 Daily Driven 4.6L
And with that said, take the LARGE amount of money that would be spent on doing that swap and put it elsewhere. With the amount of money you’re talking about spending to do just that one modification, you could build a T’Bird that would rival a Vette. Maybe not beat it in every way, but it would definitely give it a run for its money.

True that, very much so. I am a much bigger fan of road handling and braking than anything else, so this mod was the most EXTREME that I would make in any case... And I wanted to give a cheap plug to the new Z06 that's on it's way.

Dave
Samurai is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-12-2005, 12:16 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 744
that's cool your trying to do something different

while your at it, and if money's not an issue, get a blown DOHC 5.4 otherwise known as the ford gt's powerplant.
tomaso12 is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-12-2005, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
3rd Gear Poster
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Arlington, TX
Age: 39
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomaso12
while your at it, and if money's not an issue, get a blown DOHC 5.4 otherwise known as the ford gt's powerplant.

Hmmmm, sounds great, but then I'd have to get 3.5" half shalfts to handle the power, and, aw screw it. If money's not an issue, I'm buying a Porsche!

Dave
Samurai is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-12-2005, 01:10 PM
PostSkank
 
StupidFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Tempe, AZ
Age: 37
Posts: 3,231
Send a message via AIM to StupidFly
I cant remember the guys name, but there was a member here that had a black later model t-bird. He set it up with some pretty amazing suspension... and I think he pulled over 1g on a skidpad... or something like that. Duplicate that, plus some forced induction, and you're in buisness.


I dont think he did anything too radical either. Just stiffened the chassis, stiffer springs, shocks, poly bushings, and some other homegrown mods.

Mr. Hip? something like that I think, I remember his website. Correct me if I'm mistaken on any of that.

math > pasta
StupidFly is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-12-2005, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
3rd Gear Poster
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Arlington, TX
Age: 39
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by StupidFly
I cant remember the guys name, but there was a member here that had a black later model t-bird. He set it up with some pretty amazing suspension... and I think he pulled over 1g on a skidpad... or something like that. Duplicate that, plus some forced induction, and you're in buisness.


I dont think he did anything too radical either. Just stiffened the chassis, stiffer springs, shocks, poly bushings, and some other homegrown mods.

Mr. Hip? something like that I think, I remember his website. Correct me if I'm mistaken on any of that.
That actually sounds pretty cool. Do you have his website?

Dave
Samurai is offline  
post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-12-2005, 01:42 PM
TCCoA Founder
 
Sir William's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mountain Home, AR
Age: 49
Posts: 4,161
MrHip it was. 1.08g on a 200' skidpad. The Viper GTS-R they tested the same day couldn't do better than a 1.02. If memory serves, he had solid aluminum bushings in the rear, custom subframe connectors, etc. It probably rode really harsh, but handled like it was genuinely on rails.

God Bless and Fly Low!

Sir William
TCCoA Founder


97 Thunderbird LX - Smoothed

99 Expedition Eddie Bauer

04 Grand Cherokee Overland
Sir William is offline  
post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-12-2005, 02:28 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 268
All it takes is money...go for it.
Heavy Metal is offline  
post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-12-2005, 02:54 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Silver95Bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Gouldsboro, PA
Age: 36
Posts: 3,178
The name of the game for what you're getting at is weight distribution... personally, I'd find it much easier to keep the Trans mounted up front, but I would use an aluminum engine block and just move the engine backward a bit. If you move it back, you will have to make room around the firewall (and possibly the dash inside), custom engine mounts, and you'll need a new drive shaft. I don't know about header clearance, but that depends on how far you move the engine. Still, I think this would be a bit less work than trying to copy the corvette, since you'd basically have to gut and redesign the whole rear end of the vehicle.

96 Mustang GT 5spd. w/ 248A Option (GTS). Stock for now until I get the Roush on.

97 Thunderbird 4.6L LX /w Sport Package
24k B&M Cooler, 1" lowered, Steeda UD Pulleys, Dynomax cat-back, J-mod, 3.73's, PI intake, PI cams, 03 GT MAF/Tube, SCT tuned - Gone but not forgotten.
MAMN12 Drag Racing Team [email protected] In need of updated times.
Silver95Bird is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome