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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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Darrin, Lonnie

Is there anything you do in your EEC tuning to help the trans on the 3-4 shift?

Thanks

Mitch
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 01:57 PM
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careful on your 3-4 shift.

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

Its slow, Really.
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95xbird
careful on your 3-4 shift.
if your going to tell him to be careful, at least give a reason.

Nick......................I'm back!!!
May you fly low and fast
rest in peace JL
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 03:06 PM
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overdrive bands are easy to destroy.well at least in the 4R70W it is.

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

Its slow, Really.
LS1 KILLER
1995 svo Tbird. R.I.P.
Parts FOR SALE http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=132585
96 Pearl white bird. Awaiting transplants from the 95
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95xbird
overdrive bands are easy to destroy.well at least in the 4R70W it is.
exactly.

BTW, I wasn't tryin to be rude or anything

Nick......................I'm back!!!
May you fly low and fast
rest in peace JL
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _95badbird
exactly.

BTW, I wasn't tryin to be rude or anything
yes you were!

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

Its slow, Really.
LS1 KILLER
1995 svo Tbird. R.I.P.
Parts FOR SALE http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=132585
96 Pearl white bird. Awaiting transplants from the 95
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95xbird
yes you were!
well okay, maybe I was

Nick......................I'm back!!!
May you fly low and fast
rest in peace JL
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 06:50 PM
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Thats fine and all, but the problem on the 3-4 shift isn't the overdrive band. Its a thing called an intermediate stub shaft. Fix that with a hardened shaft and you have to deal with the splines that it goes into on the direct and forward hubs.
Its a matter of hard parts breakage. That is bad
Darrin

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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 07:28 PM
 
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run the car in the 1/8 mile ...never hit 4th...lol just my plans
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C F I FLY
run the car in the 1/8 mile ...never hit 4th...lol just my plans
You hit 4th in the 1/4 mile?!
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 07:52 PM
 
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trying to get my bird for the 1/8 mile track ...nearest 1/4 is 100 miles each way but have 2 tracks within 30 miles from home
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
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Well, what I was really looking for is if anyone uses torque reduction on the 3-4 shift. I do. I reduce torque by as much as 40%.

Mitch
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 08:48 AM
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That won't help. The problem is greater than that. You can easily break these parts with a stock 3.8 using torque reduction when the wrong thing happens at the wrong time. Which eventually will happen.
Darrin

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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 09:23 AM
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From what I understand, the problem comes from the inability to effectively exhaust the forward clutch at higher RPM......is this accurate Darrin? If so, are there any measures that can be taken to aid in exhausting this clutch drum? Just thinking out loud here...I know we modify turbo 400s for quicker exhausting for use with trans-brakes. Could something similar be done here?

Mike

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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrin
That won't help. The problem is greater than that. You can easily break these parts with a stock 3.8 using torque reduction when the wrong thing happens at the wrong time. Which eventually will happen.
Darrin
Can you be more specific?

Mitch
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 12:04 PM
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http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny...on/index.shtml

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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 12:48 PM
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The OD servo and the forward clutch exhaust through the same orifice, so anything that would make the forward clutch exhaust quicker also would make the servo apply the band quicker......which gets you no closer to solving the problem.

Am I interpreting that correctly?

Mike

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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 03:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrin
Darrin, I pretty much understand the dynamics and issues involved in the 3-4 shift. My point here is - if you have the trans setup to execute this shift as good as possible, reducing the max torque allowed on the 3-4 along with some other things will reduce the failure rate. Of course, things can go wrong and you'll end up breaking something, but that's not what I'm talking about.

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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 04:22 PM
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Sorry Mitch,
With all the torque reduction in the world, your engine and torque converter still have enough rotational mass to snap and destroy things when the time comes that something doesn't happen when it should.
I thihnk it was JL that broke stuff with his foot coming out of the throttle and getting a 3-4 by accident.
My best advice is still going to be to read more of that link I gave you. But, unfortunately it sounds like you have your mind made up already. The post started out as a question about the EEC and I tried to explain how it doesn't matter. Perhaps that is where I made my mistake.
So, I will try to more exactly answer your question. The answer is yes. Set the 3-4 WOT shift to 127mph. That absolutely WILL help protect the transmission.
I hope that helps
Darrin

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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrin
Sorry Mitch,
With all the torque reduction in the world, your engine and torque converter still have enough rotational mass to snap and destroy things when the time comes that something doesn't happen when it should.
I thihnk it was JL that broke stuff with his foot coming out of the throttle and getting a 3-4 by accident.
My best advice is still going to be to read more of that link I gave you. But, unfortunately it sounds like you have your mind made up already. The post started out as a question about the EEC and I tried to explain how it doesn't matter. Perhaps that is where I made my mistake.
So, I will try to more exactly answer your question. The answer is yes. Set the 3-4 WOT shift to 127mph. That absolutely WILL help protect the transmission.
I hope that helps
Darrin
Darrin, my question was helping the 3-4 shift under normal conditions, not under extreme conditions or when something goes awry. With regard to the JL failure, I have one question. At what RPM did this happen? Rotational inertia is only one part of this failure and probably the minor one.

Incidentally, I had a relatively long discussion with Jerry about the 3-4 shift on high power cars before he wrote that article. In fact, I have a hard copy that he sent to me before it appeared here on the TCCoA.

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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 08:51 PM
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So I just now am left with only one question.
Since you have explained your position and what you do for this issue and have talked with Jerry himself then why are you asking us? It seems like you had your answers from the start and this should have been less of a question and more of an informational commentary. Just saying.
My idea now would be for you to come back and tell us how it works out for you. After a very lengthy testing period of course.
I wish you great success.

Darrin

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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrin
So I just now am left with only one question.
Since you have explained your position and what you do for this issue and have talked with Jerry himself then why are you asking us? It seems like you had your answers from the start and this should have been less of a question and more of an informational commentary. Just saying.
My idea now would be for you to come back and tell us how it works out for you. After a very lengthy testing period of course.
I wish you great success.

Darrin
Our discussion was long before EEC calibration became the topic of every day discussion. What we did discuss was the trans main control calibration and the issues involved with the trans itself, not primarily EEC calibration. That is why I posed the question. I don't have a definitive answer. I did tell you one of the things I do, however. If I understand your response, your saying the 3-4 shift can trash the trans at almost any time and there is really nothing that can be done to help the 3-4 shift.

Mitch
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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 10:07 PM
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That is not what I am saying at all. Where did you get that? The problem on the 3-4 occurs at high TP and high rpm shifts.
Can you perhaps be very specific about what you are asking. As I just said, the problem that I know of on 3-4 shifts is at high TP or high rpm where the forward clutch can not exhaust fast enough and creates an issue when the OD band comes on.
At normal TP and reasonable rpm's this is not an issue. Things can happen in the alloted time and everybody is happy.
What I am saying is that if the shift happens under one of the conditions that causes the 3-4 shift problem then you cannot reduce torque enough to fix it and if you are reducing torque to fix a problem under conditions in which it doesn't really exist, then...
Well... Please tell me what you are really asking.

Thanks
Darrin

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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 10:40 PM
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There is a point that I just thought of. Ford put TR in the abilities of the computer on purpose and the computer has that ability for that shift. Don't you think if it needed more TR to make the trans last then perhaps they would have done that from the factory? Their factory calibrations are all about making every part of the vehicle last that they possibly can.
Just a thought
Darrin

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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-25-2006, 07:48 AM
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The consequence of a 3-4 WOT shift:

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=67549

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ I like intakes that whine \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_

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