Need help diagnosing a trans - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-03-2006, 01:15 AM Thread Starter
3rd Gear Poster
 
kraken2026's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Clawson, MI
Age: 38
Posts: 139
Send a message via AIM to kraken2026 Send a message via Yahoo to kraken2026
Need help diagnosing a trans

Basically I had a fried stock AODE on my 94 4.6 and I replaced it with what I was told was 6 month old "rebuilt" AODE out of a 98 mustang that was owned by a guy who didn't hotrod his vehicals and only took it out to do a 5spd swap. I had to switch the MLPS, harness, and mounts from the 94 trans. When we went to bolt it up we discovered that the bolt pattern on the 98 torque converter was diffrent and that it was actually 1/2" smaller in diamiter. So we switched the TC from the 94 back in to avoid drilling the flywheel. Whats happening is I have a light whirl in 1st gear and it seems like its slightly slipping on a cold take off. Once it warms up it shifts OK but if I floor it, it seems like its sliping at the end of the gears when it shifts (over revs) but then it catches smoothly and has a nice solid accelleration. If I am just letting it accelerate normally it actually shifts OK but the TC kicks in kinda hard. I've also noticed that sometime I can't manualy kick the OD in and out when its cold (hit the button but nothing happens). I drove it on the freeway for about 400 miles this past weekend (made 30 MPG) and it felt fine and it actually feels better around town now. I'm thinking maybe it could be the old TC I'm using is crap. Normally I'd say fried clutch packs except it feels really solid once it shifts. Maybe a sticking soleniod? Any ideas would be great.

-94 T-bird 4.6L SOHC "Driver"
Full Pioneer sound system, 3rd muffler delete, PBR front Calipers, Rear disc conversion, Strut Tower Brace, Marauder Torque converter, True CAI & Silencer removal w K&N.
Planned upgrades: SC trac-loc pumpkin, Magnaflow SS mufflers & SS resonator tips, SC ground effects.

-93 Eddie Bauer Bronco
5.0L, E4OD, FatBob 2" Suspension lift, K&N CA, 2-1/2" flowmaster exhaust, sixliter ignition, 96 EB interior, Alcoa rims with 33's.

-92 Firebird 5.0 TBI, 4L60 "Project"
Accel / Holly Annihilator ignition, Dynomax cat back, adj. panhard Bar & T/A Sways, Formula 17x8 Rims, LT1 4L60 conversion, rear disc w posi conversion.

What can I say, birds of a feather flock together
kraken2026 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-03-2006, 07:41 AM
6th Gear Poster
 
wether's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tomball, TX
Age: 42
Posts: 585
Send a message via AIM to wether
Did you switch out the TCC Solenoid, Shift Solenoid and EPC Solenoid? These electronic internals were different in these two years and the '94 parts need to be used to communicate with the stock EEC.

Currently In the Short Bus Garage:
2 - '94 T-bird LX's 4.6L (one with 300,000+ miles and one with 200,000+ miles)
1 - '97 Mark VIII LSC - INTECH V8 (120,000+ miles)
1 - '97 F150 XLT 4x4 Flareside, 4.6L (130,000+ miles) - Currently being dismantled and rebuilt with upgrades!
1 - '00 Mustang GT (likes to accelerate with the brake on!), 4.6L (60,000+ miles - only comes out when I need to get somewhere fast.)

oh yeah, and they all have 4R70W's
wether is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-03-2006, 09:49 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Darrin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Camby, IN 46113
Age: 54
Posts: 2,976
So you put a converer that came out of a fried transmission back in with the new transmission...

Time for another new transmission because you toasted this one with the contamination from the old one that was in the converter.

When you have a transmission go bad you MUST replace the converter and MUST flush the lines and cooler. It isn't optional at all becuase the first time you start the engine and pump that old contamination into the new transmission its done for.
Sorry to have to tell you this.

Darrin

01 F150 5.4L 4x4 and a 98 Mustang GT vert sitting engineless and without transmission or converter


All my vehicles tuned by BC Automotive (me)

Darrin is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-03-2006, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
3rd Gear Poster
 
kraken2026's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Clawson, MI
Age: 38
Posts: 139
Send a message via AIM to kraken2026 Send a message via Yahoo to kraken2026
Quote:
Originally Posted by wether
Did you switch out the TCC Solenoid, Shift Solenoid and EPC Solenoid? These electronic internals were different in these two years and the '94 parts need to be used to communicate with the stock EEC.
No I didn't but its not tripping any lights eather, you'd think it would send off a trouble code.

-94 T-bird 4.6L SOHC "Driver"
Full Pioneer sound system, 3rd muffler delete, PBR front Calipers, Rear disc conversion, Strut Tower Brace, Marauder Torque converter, True CAI & Silencer removal w K&N.
Planned upgrades: SC trac-loc pumpkin, Magnaflow SS mufflers & SS resonator tips, SC ground effects.

-93 Eddie Bauer Bronco
5.0L, E4OD, FatBob 2" Suspension lift, K&N CA, 2-1/2" flowmaster exhaust, sixliter ignition, 96 EB interior, Alcoa rims with 33's.

-92 Firebird 5.0 TBI, 4L60 "Project"
Accel / Holly Annihilator ignition, Dynomax cat back, adj. panhard Bar & T/A Sways, Formula 17x8 Rims, LT1 4L60 conversion, rear disc w posi conversion.

What can I say, birds of a feather flock together
kraken2026 is offline  
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-03-2006, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
3rd Gear Poster
 
kraken2026's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Clawson, MI
Age: 38
Posts: 139
Send a message via AIM to kraken2026 Send a message via Yahoo to kraken2026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrin
So you put a converer that came out of a fried transmission back in with the new transmission...

Time for another new transmission because you toasted this one with the contamination from the old one that was in the converter.

When you have a transmission go bad you MUST replace the converter and MUST flush the lines and cooler. It isn't optional at all becuase the first time you start the engine and pump that old contamination into the new transmission its done for.
Sorry to have to tell you this.

Darrin
Yea I know, I know bone head move with the TC but I didn't have a choice I needed to drive it that weekend. I did drain the old converter and lines first though. Another thing I forget to mention is that the old trans fluid was perfictly clean it looks and smells just like the new stuff I had put in and I know the fluid was like 10,000 to 20,000 miles old. The thing about this is its not something thats deteriating its actually feeling better the more I drive it. If I had terminally contaminated the system wouldn't it have started out fine and then gotten worse the more I drove it not better? If it wern't feeling better the more it was driven I'd say I had fried it for sure. I'm wondering if maybe like wether was saying I still need to switch some hardware. That might account for the late shifts and TC hard lock-up. And as far as the it getting better thing maybe the comp is adjusting to the wrong hardware and compensating, their pretty adaptiable. Can those componets that Wether mentioned be changed out with the trans installed? And do any of you know if the TC from the 94 is ok to use on the 98 gt trans?

-94 T-bird 4.6L SOHC "Driver"
Full Pioneer sound system, 3rd muffler delete, PBR front Calipers, Rear disc conversion, Strut Tower Brace, Marauder Torque converter, True CAI & Silencer removal w K&N.
Planned upgrades: SC trac-loc pumpkin, Magnaflow SS mufflers & SS resonator tips, SC ground effects.

-93 Eddie Bauer Bronco
5.0L, E4OD, FatBob 2" Suspension lift, K&N CA, 2-1/2" flowmaster exhaust, sixliter ignition, 96 EB interior, Alcoa rims with 33's.

-92 Firebird 5.0 TBI, 4L60 "Project"
Accel / Holly Annihilator ignition, Dynomax cat back, adj. panhard Bar & T/A Sways, Formula 17x8 Rims, LT1 4L60 conversion, rear disc w posi conversion.

What can I say, birds of a feather flock together
kraken2026 is offline  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-03-2006, 12:46 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Darrin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Camby, IN 46113
Age: 54
Posts: 2,976
The TCC is the only solenoid that you would have to change.
How did you handle the internal wiring differences between the 94 and 98?
A 98 should definitely have a black case plug and a hard internal connector board instead of wires. This will mean a rewire of the vehicle harness or swapping the internal wiring harness from the old transmission into the new one.
Darrin

01 F150 5.4L 4x4 and a 98 Mustang GT vert sitting engineless and without transmission or converter


All my vehicles tuned by BC Automotive (me)

Darrin is offline  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-03-2006, 03:45 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
wether's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tomball, TX
Age: 42
Posts: 585
Send a message via AIM to wether
Yes, these parts can be changed with the tranny installed. The pan has to be dropped and the VB pulled to get to the TCC. If Darrin says the TCC is the only thing that needs to be changed then I would go with what he says. I was just looking at a parts listing saying that the parts were only interchangable through '97.

Darrin,

Can you replace the connector board with a new wiring harness for the transmission from a '94 4R70W? I am just wondering if this is a feasible idea. . .

Currently In the Short Bus Garage:
2 - '94 T-bird LX's 4.6L (one with 300,000+ miles and one with 200,000+ miles)
1 - '97 Mark VIII LSC - INTECH V8 (120,000+ miles)
1 - '97 F150 XLT 4x4 Flareside, 4.6L (130,000+ miles) - Currently being dismantled and rebuilt with upgrades!
1 - '00 Mustang GT (likes to accelerate with the brake on!), 4.6L (60,000+ miles - only comes out when I need to get somewhere fast.)

oh yeah, and they all have 4R70W's
wether is offline  
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-03-2006, 11:11 PM Thread Starter
3rd Gear Poster
 
kraken2026's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Clawson, MI
Age: 38
Posts: 139
Send a message via AIM to kraken2026 Send a message via Yahoo to kraken2026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrin
The TCC is the only solenoid that you would have to change.
How did you handle the internal wiring differences between the 94 and 98?
A 98 should definitely have a black case plug and a hard internal connector board instead of wires. This will mean a rewire of the vehicle harness or swapping the internal wiring harness from the old transmission into the new one.
Darrin
When I had the two trans next to eachother the only diffrence was that the wire harness for the 98 had the lower set of O2 sensors with it and that the MLPS had a slightly diffrent plug. That and the mount didn't have the hanger for the exhaust on it. All I changed was the harness to the 94 one so the that the O2 sensors were seperat again like stock and I switched the MLPS to the one off the 94 unit so that it could plug into it. All the other sensors and internal hook-ups were identical style and color as the 94 harness with no problem. I double checked the connections and the the colors and everything. The 94 trans had 2 markings on it a big "35" and a smaller "94" the 98 trans has a big "35" and a smaller "98" in the same locations. I have a picture of the tag that was on the 98 trans if someone knows how to decode it. I can also take pictures of the 98s wire harness and MLPS. You know I was reading on another thread that a guy was having a similar problem as me and it turned out to be his map sensor. I do have a K&N and to the best of my knowlage the MAP has never been cleaned & my plugs are going on 3 years I think. Could be completely unrelated.

-94 T-bird 4.6L SOHC "Driver"
Full Pioneer sound system, 3rd muffler delete, PBR front Calipers, Rear disc conversion, Strut Tower Brace, Marauder Torque converter, True CAI & Silencer removal w K&N.
Planned upgrades: SC trac-loc pumpkin, Magnaflow SS mufflers & SS resonator tips, SC ground effects.

-93 Eddie Bauer Bronco
5.0L, E4OD, FatBob 2" Suspension lift, K&N CA, 2-1/2" flowmaster exhaust, sixliter ignition, 96 EB interior, Alcoa rims with 33's.

-92 Firebird 5.0 TBI, 4L60 "Project"
Accel / Holly Annihilator ignition, Dynomax cat back, adj. panhard Bar & T/A Sways, Formula 17x8 Rims, LT1 4L60 conversion, rear disc w posi conversion.

What can I say, birds of a feather flock together
kraken2026 is offline  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-04-2006, 08:32 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Darrin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Camby, IN 46113
Age: 54
Posts: 2,976
I am very confused about what you are saying. What harness did you change or use? Did you use the correct external harness for your car? The one that had the O2 connection on it.

Those are casting marks you are talking about. Can I see the tag you are talking about? Or just give me the number on the one from the new transmission. It should have a code on it like PKF-AB, but I am curious about the F8zp-xxxxx-xx information too if possible.

The internal wiring on a 98 Mustang transmission is most definitely different. The main connector on the side of the transmission has a black plug and has a different pinout than a 94. On the inside of the transmission in a 98 there is a black plastic circuit board that connects the shift solenoids, the TCC and the EPC.
I don't know what transmission you have there if it plugged up and worked.
Darrin

01 F150 5.4L 4x4 and a 98 Mustang GT vert sitting engineless and without transmission or converter


All my vehicles tuned by BC Automotive (me)

Darrin is offline  
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-04-2006, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
3rd Gear Poster
 
kraken2026's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Clawson, MI
Age: 38
Posts: 139
Send a message via AIM to kraken2026 Send a message via Yahoo to kraken2026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrin
I am very confused about what you are saying. What harness did you change or use? Did you use the correct external harness for your car? The one that had the O2 connection on it.

Those are casting marks you are talking about. Can I see the tag you are talking about? Or just give me the number on the one from the new transmission. It should have a code on it like PKF-AB, but I am curious about the F8zp-xxxxx-xx information too if possible.

The internal wiring on a 98 Mustang transmission is most definitely different. The main connector on the side of the transmission has a black plug and has a different pinout than a 94. On the inside of the transmission in a 98 there is a black plastic circuit board that connects the shift solenoids, the TCC and the EPC.
I don't know what transmission you have there if it plugged up and worked.
Darrin
I used the harness off of my 94 bird it doesn't have the O2 connections on it. The O2 sensor harness is above / around the trans but it is a seperate peice that just goes up into the firewall somewhere. The harness on the new trans had it all as one peice and a extra connector that I traced to the O2 sensors.

I'd post a pic but apparently theres no way to post attchments... Is this because I'm a new member or something?

Anyway the TAG says:
Line one, PKE-N1
Line two, F7LP-7000-AA
Line Three, 016961
Then a barcode
and below that, E-N1 016961
Also in large print on the top right of the tag, 7N

On the passanger side at the rear it says, RF-F3RP-7A040-AA
This is followed by large print, 48 and a W underneith it.

My 94 trans looks identical to the new "98 GT" trans with the exception of the trans mount a slightly diffrent MLPS and the TC being 1/2" smaller causing the studs not to line up on the flywheel. All the conectors are the same shapes, and colors.

All I know is somethings not quite right with the new "98 mustang GT 6 month rebuilt trans" I bought but somehow I'm also knocking down 29.9MPG on the freeway cruising at like 75MPH and doing WOT on-ramp runs. This weekend I'm changing my sparkplugs and I'm gonna clean the MAF sensor. I got $10 that the guy who sold it to me ripped me off and gave me a worn trans out of a F-150 or some ****.

-94 T-bird 4.6L SOHC "Driver"
Full Pioneer sound system, 3rd muffler delete, PBR front Calipers, Rear disc conversion, Strut Tower Brace, Marauder Torque converter, True CAI & Silencer removal w K&N.
Planned upgrades: SC trac-loc pumpkin, Magnaflow SS mufflers & SS resonator tips, SC ground effects.

-93 Eddie Bauer Bronco
5.0L, E4OD, FatBob 2" Suspension lift, K&N CA, 2-1/2" flowmaster exhaust, sixliter ignition, 96 EB interior, Alcoa rims with 33's.

-92 Firebird 5.0 TBI, 4L60 "Project"
Accel / Holly Annihilator ignition, Dynomax cat back, adj. panhard Bar & T/A Sways, Formula 17x8 Rims, LT1 4L60 conversion, rear disc w posi conversion.

What can I say, birds of a feather flock together
kraken2026 is offline  
post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-06-2006, 09:18 PM Thread Starter
3rd Gear Poster
 
kraken2026's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Clawson, MI
Age: 38
Posts: 139
Send a message via AIM to kraken2026 Send a message via Yahoo to kraken2026
Hey Darrin you give up on me? Just curious I haven't seen anyone post on this thread in a few days now.

-94 T-bird 4.6L SOHC "Driver"
Full Pioneer sound system, 3rd muffler delete, PBR front Calipers, Rear disc conversion, Strut Tower Brace, Marauder Torque converter, True CAI & Silencer removal w K&N.
Planned upgrades: SC trac-loc pumpkin, Magnaflow SS mufflers & SS resonator tips, SC ground effects.

-93 Eddie Bauer Bronco
5.0L, E4OD, FatBob 2" Suspension lift, K&N CA, 2-1/2" flowmaster exhaust, sixliter ignition, 96 EB interior, Alcoa rims with 33's.

-92 Firebird 5.0 TBI, 4L60 "Project"
Accel / Holly Annihilator ignition, Dynomax cat back, adj. panhard Bar & T/A Sways, Formula 17x8 Rims, LT1 4L60 conversion, rear disc w posi conversion.

What can I say, birds of a feather flock together
kraken2026 is offline  
post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-07-2006, 02:20 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Darrin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Camby, IN 46113
Age: 54
Posts: 2,976
I have been busy and didn't catch that you had replied.
That is not a 98 Mustang GT transmission you have there. That is a 97 Mark VIII transmission.
But, again it realy doesn't matter because you put a converter from a fried transmission into it. That is a no recovery point no matter how clean the fluid looked. I know it sucks, but it is what it is.
Drive it until it dies and get something better.

Darrin

01 F150 5.4L 4x4 and a 98 Mustang GT vert sitting engineless and without transmission or converter


All my vehicles tuned by BC Automotive (me)

Darrin is offline  
post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-07-2006, 08:47 PM Thread Starter
3rd Gear Poster
 
kraken2026's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Clawson, MI
Age: 38
Posts: 139
Send a message via AIM to kraken2026 Send a message via Yahoo to kraken2026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrin
I have been busy and didn't catch that you had replied.
That is not a 98 Mustang GT transmission you have there. That is a 97 Mark VIII transmission.
But, again it realy doesn't matter because you put a converter from a fried transmission into it. That is a no recovery point no matter how clean the fluid looked. I know it sucks, but it is what it is.
Drive it until it dies and get something better.

Darrin
Thats cool thanks for responding. Whats throwing me off is the 98 marking on the trans I thought that it was supposed to designate the year... Then again it could be a really late in the production line mark VIII for the 97 year and got the 98 casting but still the 97 tag. I totally agree with the point of no return. But you know the weird thing about it is... Its getting better everyday I drive it lol. Bizzar. I know from the whine it makes taking off that its only a mater of time. I'll probably do a swap this upcomming summer. I've actually been looking into doing the Mark VIII 4.6 DOHC swap if I can find a low milage one with the trans I'll just do the swap with the trans, Jmod and true dual exhaust in one whole shot.
Thanks again for the help

-94 T-bird 4.6L SOHC "Driver"
Full Pioneer sound system, 3rd muffler delete, PBR front Calipers, Rear disc conversion, Strut Tower Brace, Marauder Torque converter, True CAI & Silencer removal w K&N.
Planned upgrades: SC trac-loc pumpkin, Magnaflow SS mufflers & SS resonator tips, SC ground effects.

-93 Eddie Bauer Bronco
5.0L, E4OD, FatBob 2" Suspension lift, K&N CA, 2-1/2" flowmaster exhaust, sixliter ignition, 96 EB interior, Alcoa rims with 33's.

-92 Firebird 5.0 TBI, 4L60 "Project"
Accel / Holly Annihilator ignition, Dynomax cat back, adj. panhard Bar & T/A Sways, Formula 17x8 Rims, LT1 4L60 conversion, rear disc w posi conversion.

What can I say, birds of a feather flock together
kraken2026 is offline  
post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-18-2007, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
3rd Gear Poster
 
kraken2026's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Clawson, MI
Age: 38
Posts: 139
Send a message via AIM to kraken2026 Send a message via Yahoo to kraken2026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
I have been busy and didn't catch that you had replied.
That is not a 98 Mustang GT transmission you have there. That is a 97 Mark VIII transmission.
But, again it realy doesn't matter because you put a converter from a fried transmission into it. That is a no recovery point no matter how clean the fluid looked. I know it sucks, but it is what it is.
Drive it until it dies and get something better.

Darrin
Heh yea its finally starting to give up the ghost. Slips of of gear all the time now. I have the original 94 trans sitting in my garage and a guy on here is hooking me up with and old ford trans tech guy he knows whos done a few rebuilds for him. He uses only new oem ford parts. I'm using that original 94 tbird torque converter right now and was thinking about switching my flywheel and using the mark VIII TQ instead do you think this is a good idea and would I have to change anything on on the trans for it to work right like use a TCC solinoid from a mark VIII? Also I was thinking about maybe beefing it up a little as long as I was having it rebuilt I'm not planing on racing the car or anything but I do have a little bit of a heavy foot so any ideas on that? Any input is helpfull thanks again.

-94 T-bird 4.6L SOHC "Driver"
Full Pioneer sound system, 3rd muffler delete, PBR front Calipers, Rear disc conversion, Strut Tower Brace, Marauder Torque converter, True CAI & Silencer removal w K&N.
Planned upgrades: SC trac-loc pumpkin, Magnaflow SS mufflers & SS resonator tips, SC ground effects.

-93 Eddie Bauer Bronco
5.0L, E4OD, FatBob 2" Suspension lift, K&N CA, 2-1/2" flowmaster exhaust, sixliter ignition, 96 EB interior, Alcoa rims with 33's.

-92 Firebird 5.0 TBI, 4L60 "Project"
Accel / Holly Annihilator ignition, Dynomax cat back, adj. panhard Bar & T/A Sways, Formula 17x8 Rims, LT1 4L60 conversion, rear disc w posi conversion.

What can I say, birds of a feather flock together
kraken2026 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome