Valve Body off SCP? - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-26-2007, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
 
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Valve Body off SCP?

I was thinking of getting the "Factory Tech Complete Accumulator Valve Body - For '93-95 Mark VIII & 4.6L Tbird/Cougar" off of SCP (Under the 3.8L for my 94). My only concern was exactly understanding what is done to this. I wanted to do a jmod, but don't know anyone around me that can do it, without overpaying a shop or annoying my mechanic buddy to death about it. If I got this valve body, what else would I need to do to have the complete jmod? Would I still have to do the drilling and stuff? I'm not very good with cars, so please assume I know nothing . Also, if there is anyone around in MD that can do it and could help me out with doing the jmod instead of buying the whole valve body, that would work too; I'm in Baltimore County.

I know I would still have to do some of the basic stuff like put Mercon V in it and get the deep pan, but I'm not exactly sure what else I'd have to do. Thanks!
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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-26-2007, 09:14 PM
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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 12:49 AM
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just get a j-modded one from darrin.
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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 06:28 AM
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This is what I have. Have a look if you want to www.bc-automotive.com

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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 06:51 AM Thread Starter
 
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So, I can get a whole jmodded one from you, Darrin, for ~$300 ($225+$75 core+S&H)?
What else would I need to do then to have a complete jmod? Change to Mercon V and add the deep pan?
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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 07:05 AM
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That is pretty much the case, yes.

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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 07:15 AM
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Huh, I just looked at the website at SCP. I didn't know Bill sold those. Thats interesting. With the work and time I have in mine these are unprofitable as it is and now I can see why people have been beating me down on the price. I didnt know my stuff was being compared to that.

What I do is very much not like that. What I do is very much tailored to the individual and their vehicle. I don't use a set or fixed modification. Unless the car is totally stock and the customer has no plans for upgrades. IE: they want a valve body for a daily driver to improve transmission life instead of performance

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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 07:23 AM Thread Starter
 
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So, I know there are different "settings" for different engines and for how much hp (etc etc) you have. I do plan on doing upgrades and would like tochirp 1-2. What's the best suited one for me?
I won't have the money for a month or two, but I'll definitely be giving you a call when I do get it, so keep me in mind .
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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
 
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Ah, okay! A few lights went off for me. Bare with me, I'm in no way a mechanic.

Basically, if I purchase the pre-modified Valve Body from Darrin, I can completely skip the article "Modifying the Valve Body to Jerry's specifications" (obviously), but I could still do the "A-Train's Shift Kit Install" if I choose to, for added performance, right? I'm not the one that will be doing the work, but I'll be spending the money, so I want to make sure I have the details correct.

And there are still the settings for the Valve Body I have to worry about, right? Like mild or hard shifts, no?

If anyone can completely clear this up for me, I'd appreciate that .
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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 02:13 PM
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If you buy a valve body, you drop the pan and replace the valve body.

A bunch of bolts, and a few electrical connections inside the pan.

Its pretty much a no brainer.

If your replacing springs, servos, etc, then thats a little more advanced, but not really bad at all.

When I was 18, myself and shawn40th did both our cars in his fathers garage. Much to the chagrin of his mother, we had ATF spilled everywhere.



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Ah, okay! A few lights went off for me. Bare with me, I'm in no way a mechanic.

Basically, if I purchase the pre-modified Valve Body from Darrin, I can completely skip the article "Modifying the Valve Body to Jerry's specifications" (obviously), but I could still do the "A-Train's Shift Kit Install" if I choose to, for added performance, right? I'm not the one that will be doing the work, but I'll be spending the money, so I want to make sure I have the details correct.

And there are still the settings for the Valve Body I have to worry about, right? Like mild or hard shifts, no?

If anyone can completely clear this up for me, I'd appreciate that .
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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
 
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So, what would be the benefit of actually doing the A-Train Shift Kit?
The only way for me to learn is to ask questions
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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 06:34 PM
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There would be no benefit on my valve body. Its all already done for you.
It even comes with a nice full color and very detailed instruction manual

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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
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There would be no benefit on my valve body. Its all already done for you.
It even comes with a nice full color and very detailed instruction manual

Darrin
That's what I'm talking about! lol.. Nice and easy.. You'll definitely be hearing from me when I get the money together..

Now, aren't there a few different settings I can get? Like a mild or hard shift? I'd like to figure that out soon instead of wasting time when I get the money .
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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 07:08 PM
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That is my job. Leave that to me. Like I said above, I don't really do things like settings. These are true custom valve bodies made for you and your car. Not cookie cutter stuff.

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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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Ah, gotcha .
Thanks for the help!
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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 07:34 PM
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Not a problem. I look forward to helping you with your car.
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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 08:39 PM
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so if you were to do the jmod. this is like one step allrdy done for you?

Project still in progress
Explorer engine, vortech v2,intercooled,bullit intake,derale power steering cooler, b&m trans cooler, oil filter relocation, cobra aluminum radiator, Walbro 255 Pump, Intrax 2in lowering springs, KYB front/back,,mark8 Driveshaft, 1.25Rear sway bar, 3:73 aluminum diff, TrackLok, Rear Diff Cover Brace, Sc Wheels 235/60s, Jmodd, Air Bags in Springs,Rear strut Bar,17in Mirror Blk CobraRs, Sc L Brackets, rear torsional load brace, kmember-frame brace, weightloss program, pbr dual pistons drilled/slotted, stainless lines , recaro seats, sct x4 DonL tuned
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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 08:47 PM
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This is like remove your old valve body and put this one in and you are done. Out with the old and in with the new. You do no modification whatsoever. You remove and replace. No drilling, no guessing.

Take one out put one in and you are done.

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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 08:50 PM
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ya. i got that..but what other steps are there in the jmod that i would have to do?

Project still in progress
Explorer engine, vortech v2,intercooled,bullit intake,derale power steering cooler, b&m trans cooler, oil filter relocation, cobra aluminum radiator, Walbro 255 Pump, Intrax 2in lowering springs, KYB front/back,,mark8 Driveshaft, 1.25Rear sway bar, 3:73 aluminum diff, TrackLok, Rear Diff Cover Brace, Sc Wheels 235/60s, Jmodd, Air Bags in Springs,Rear strut Bar,17in Mirror Blk CobraRs, Sc L Brackets, rear torsional load brace, kmember-frame brace, weightloss program, pbr dual pistons drilled/slotted, stainless lines , recaro seats, sct x4 DonL tuned
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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
 
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If I understand right, you would just have to change to Mercon V (if you haven't already), put in the '96 deep pan and filter and add a tranny cooler (optional, but highly recommended by everyone).
Correct me if I'm wrong or missed anything .
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post #21 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-28-2007, 01:38 AM
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also change out the 1-2 and 2-3 pistons (along with the springs) as you have the crap ones. i dont know if they are included with darrins valvebody or not. if not they are cheap to get from jason.

edit: dont forget about adding a tranny cooler too.
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post #22 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-28-2007, 02:39 AM
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yea but 300 for a jmodded valvebody + 75 core? not too sure about that.

what "internal" changes are done to the valvebody?
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post #23 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-28-2007, 03:14 AM
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if you do it yourself, you need to drill some holes in the seperator plate and put some new gaskets in there. alot of people dont feel comfortable doing that because if you f it up you end up spending 300 anyway (you cant buy just the plate from ford). and if you look at most performance places (performance automatic comes to mind) their valvebodies run about the same amount. me personally, id rather send the business to alan and darrin for a few reasons.
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post #24 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-28-2007, 03:16 AM
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seperator plates can be had at the junkyard for cheap. Heck i even have a spare seperator plate. hell i bought a 99+ gt *jmodded* valvebody with low miles from a local here for under 175 shipped.....
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post #25 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-28-2007, 03:18 AM
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well then i guess you dont need to buy one from darrin, and you dont need to piss and moan about what he is charging. and just to set the record straight, he has different prices for different years. the one thats mentioned here is 300 total, 225 and 75 core.
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post #26 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-28-2007, 03:34 AM
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Dont get me wrong i know darrin is the man and in the near future i hope to hit him up for some business but i would think he would make a killing just selling pre-modified seperator plates. Get a good stock of accumilators/pistons/springs/gaskets from jason and sell that as a kit and i would definately hit him up. After switching over a valvebody and taking the pan off more than once im not intimidated at all when it comes to modify'ing it. Of course when it comes to drilling thats a different story. Shoot he can even have the plate as a core and i would give him my stock plate after i got a modified one from him installed on my car.

Just throwing out ideas...

And im not b!tching and moaning about the price....its just....shift kits were made to be cheap and effective, prolly why its one of the most highly recommended mods to do first to our cars. If you make it 300 bucks then it looks intimidating and a lil confusing especially when you see it for cheap in the ford parts hq.

So i guess what im saying is.....Get some seperator plates darrin!!! lol

-Mike
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post #27 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-28-2007, 06:58 AM
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so to have a nice jmodded tranny id get accumilators/pistons/springs/gaskets from jason and the allrdy done up valve body from darrin?

Project still in progress
Explorer engine, vortech v2,intercooled,bullit intake,derale power steering cooler, b&m trans cooler, oil filter relocation, cobra aluminum radiator, Walbro 255 Pump, Intrax 2in lowering springs, KYB front/back,,mark8 Driveshaft, 1.25Rear sway bar, 3:73 aluminum diff, TrackLok, Rear Diff Cover Brace, Sc Wheels 235/60s, Jmodd, Air Bags in Springs,Rear strut Bar,17in Mirror Blk CobraRs, Sc L Brackets, rear torsional load brace, kmember-frame brace, weightloss program, pbr dual pistons drilled/slotted, stainless lines , recaro seats, sct x4 DonL tuned
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post #28 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-28-2007, 08:10 AM
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Porkchop buddy, you are WAY wrong. I sell those complete valve body kits too cheaply. Thats why you don't see me pushing them too hard. This isn't just some junk VB that I simply slap a modded plate on. You cannot find that valve body in the Ford parts section. You can find just a small part of the parts I use there.

I really don't make enough money on these valve bodies to have this conversation again over, but lets not leave your comment about the price out there unanswered to fester. I show from between a technical loss to a minimal profit on these valve body kits and I don't hardly make any real gain on them either. I honestly lost money on the separator plate kits that I offered.

The only gain is a customer base for future sales.

Think about this.

I sold a sep plate kit for $50 and some people b!tched about that price even.
Here is what that takes. I have to scrap an old valve body to do it. I also supplied accumulator pistons, springs, caps, gaskets, and a filter. Then I have to package it all up and print a manual so that anyone can understand how to install it. I end up with well more than an hours work in it. Lets not even consider the parts, the paper and sleeve for the manual or any of the misc stuff. If you just look at the time and labor its not profitable on that alone. Its a technical loss right there. Add in the real expenses and its an actual loss. A negative number.

So to offset the actual cost I beg and I plead for cores back. I end up with about 1 in 20 that do that for me. THANK YOU!!! to those that were honerable enough to do that by the way. I then had to try to offer these with a core charge and people b!tched even more and wouldn't buy them. I have pretty much had to scrap the plate kits because of that.

I tried to offer something to help for practically nothing and I lost money. Not good business. I tried to have new plates laser cut but the expense does not justify it. If you want a plate kit then you are now forced to go buy the "one size fits all" kit that someone else offers that is based on a truck plate. I really can't do plate kits anymore with no other purchases.

Now I know that I am going to have to address my labor fees straight up front here. In my line of work you have to make a bare minimum of $50 per hour or you are losing money. I have utilities, phones, a computer, software, rent on the building, insurance, tool payments... All of the costs of running a business to cover. This is a business and its my sole means of support. I have to first support the business before I can make a dime. That is why the $50/hour labor minimum. And if you look around, thats cheap.

Take that sep plate kit above. I didn't even cover just the labor in that price really. Thats why its gone now.

I sell a valve body kit because people need these. I am not going to tell you how to do what I do. I worked long and hard to know what I know to do. I use J's stuff and then add my own parts and modifications to the mix. These work great. Ask anyone that has one.

I am not going to detail my internal modificatins. That is my stuff. If you want to learn what to do then I suggest you start buying scrap valve bodies and use them on your own car to learn what to do and what not to do. A lot of your changes will not be reversable. If you really want to learn whats what you do things that cause you to scrap a VB when that new change doesn't work. Thus the need for several. Do all of that and then you can find out how to do some of it and maybe start your own sales on these. But let me warn you. its a real hassle to pull off. Someone will occasionally publicly say that you charge too much and you will have to defend your price.

So for fun, lets break the VB kit down. I am giving you ACTUAL prices. You can check on that by asking Jason in the parts section.

I buy GOOD cores to work from. I don't want damaged rusty crap. Been there, done that too many times at too much end cost. At one point I bought a bunch of $40 cores and was only able to use less than half of them. Ask Alan or Lonnie. They had to listen to me carry on about it. I spent almost $1000 and got less than half of that in usable parts. Now I only buy from one place. They cost me an average of $70 shipped, but they are good stuff.

So, $70 for the core valve body. But wait theres more...

I disassemble every little piece and part of these valve bodies and clean and inspect everything. I have to scrap some of them for plates and springs. Because of that, my software has shown me that the core actually costs me an average of $90. Why do I have to srap a certain amount? Because you can't get those plates or springs from anywhere else.

So make that $90 for the core.

I end up with an average of 2 hours of cleaning and inspection per vb. So the labor there is figured at $100. Even if I try to do several at a time to save cost it isn't an appreciable savings because I have to have clean bench space for all the little parts and to keep everything together in a way that insures no mistakes are made. The 2 hour per figure is figuring 2 at a time which is all I can really handle due to the complexity of these when they are fully apart and the space needed to do this in.

I have to run a solvent tank and heat up a parts washer for the second cleaning portion on the bigger stuff after it comes out of the solvent tank and then I bought this ultrasonic cleaning tank that cost a small fortune to take care of the rest to ensure clean happens every single time. I have to supply chemicals for that stuff too.

But lets leave those expenses out of it and include them in the labor rate like I explained above.

I end up with an average of half an hour on the modifications. Another $25.

It takes me between 15 minutes and a half an hour to reinstall all the valves and springs and work them after they are reinstalled make sure they are not stuck. So another $25 there.

At least 1/4 qt of Mercon V at $4 per qt is used, so $1 for that.

I have an average of $25 in internal parts for upgrades and replacements.

I have about $6 in gaskets.

I have $10 in the filter.

I have almost $20 in the accumulator pistons and caps.

I have between $5 and $30 in accumulator springs depending on the setup. So lets average that to $17.50

There is an average of $2 in misc parts like check ball kits with those little filters and replacements for damaged bolts or whatever.

Now, I have to take the time to talk to every individual customer to determine exactly what they need. That is no less than 15 minutes. So lets say $15 in time for that.

Then I have to print a manual $2

Box, tape and label. $3 stuff plus $10 labor combined on this and the manual.

I know I am forgetting something or several things, but hey lets look at what we have now and go with just that.

Labor =$175
All parts and supplies =$145.50
Total average cost to produce=$320.50
And ask people, I was giving free shipping and had to stop that.

I sell these for an average of $250 and the above totals to more than $320. I had to add a $75 core charge to show a profit and I still have only had about 2 people return a core for that refund.

Think about it. The labor cost doesn't include profit. That labor cost is an expense. So after the addition of a core charge these show a technical profit of not quite $5. In fact, I honestly break about even for my time.

So to anyone, if you want to offer these and can do it properly then you are welcome to it. If they arer not up to my standards then you will definitely hear about it, Often. I am not going to tell you my personal modifications though so don't ask me. I took it upon myself to learn what I know. You would need to take on the time and expense to do that on your own as well.

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Last edited by Darrin; 02-28-2007 at 08:25 AM.
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post #29 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-28-2007, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by TwoHaggard View Post
so to have a nice jmodded tranny id get accumilators/pistons/springs/gaskets from jason and the allrdy done up valve body from darrin?
To have a nice modded tranny that has everything done to it that you can do without removing the transmission from the car to disassemble and modify internally then you just get the valve body kit that I offer. Its complete with everything you need except for the fluid and the person to swap the VB out.

I also offer tailshaft lube mod kits if you want those. But don't get me started on how much those braided lines and fittings that come with them cost me. Now that is robbery.

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post #30 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-28-2007, 12:09 PM
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Darrin should NOT have to defend himself here.
There is only truth in all that Darrin mentioned. If he sold for less - he would be jeprodizing his LABOR cost. And when it comes to transmissions, vb's, converters....they are only as good as the guy building them.

Take a LENTECH VB for example. He has done a great job with his products and is reguarded as one of the best in the industry. How much does he sell his VB's for? Can you get one for $300.......Fck no! Are you paying for the expensive fancy parts inside....I can tell you now....NO you are not. You are paying over $300 for HIS LABOR and RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT. Let me also add that his VB's kits don't come standard with all the gaskets and accumulators as Darrin provides.

Why would anyone think that D would put less work and expertise into his vb's as Lentech or the many other builders? Plus if you think Darrin is just slapping a Jmod into a crappy core VB, you are wrong. The Jmod is pretty basic and works great - but to fine tune a product to the needs of his customers OVER THE PHONE takes tallent. Let alone accualy acknolwledge you AND your machine as an individual person making sure he gets you what you want.

Two truths in the transmission world:
1) you get what you pay for
2) it is only as good as the builder (10% parts, 90% person)

This can be applied to transmissions, vb's, converter, engine building, body work, paint work, machine work......you name it. NO ONE HERE will dispute that.

FWIW, a REMAN VB, not new, but REMAN is about $250-$275. Now, add what Darrin does on top.........yeah......time wasted for $300 IMHO. Now consider that he could take a core VB and build the units. He pays $75 for them. Have you dissasembled a VB completely and tried to hand clean it......PITA, it is deffinetly worth something....$300 is just right price IMHO.

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