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Scrapping the 4.6L altogether...

8K views 61 replies 18 participants last post by  newkid510 
#1 ·
Since I don't know what to replace it with, I'm posting here in the 4.6L area since my 95 Thunderbird was originally equipped with one.

I was going to build a late model 4.6L engine but I've sold all of the good stuff I had for that build because I've chosen that I don't want to work on my own car with such a wide engine. For me, it just takes the fun out of it and I'm all about fun when it comes to cars.

This said, I'd be curious on the options. I'm mostly resigned in myself to build a 347 with a Kenne Bell. However, the pill I'm finding tough to swallow is the iron block part of it. The original 4.6L was iron block alumn. heads, but I really appreciated the upgrade of an all aluminum engine with the DOHC swap. That goes away with the 347ci.

The other option is a new Coyote 302 engine. This seems to be a more narrow DOHC engine and there is gonna be plenty of them to go around... I just don't know if it is going to be narrow enough to make a difference from the 4.6L DOHC.

Any thoughts (please don't bother with the "what's a cooler engine". I agree the coyote is far more cool... BUT if its gonna be a nuckle buster like the 4.6 than its not worth it.
 
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#11 ·
Yeah, I know the coyote isn't cheap now, but that's because its brand new. In a couple of few years it isn't going to be as bad. Kind of like the LS GM engines. They're rediculas reasonable now, I mean you can get a while car with an LS1 for under a grand. Generally you score that, you can part a remainder of the car out and break even - thus getting the LS for $0
 
#14 ·
See, I need to look into this kind of stuff too. I'm sure there are aftermarket blocks (alumn, and iron alike)... if I go with a 302 I'd have to see what's out there.

I don't know if the factory 351 has any better chance... perhaps a lightning motor... I don't know if those were DOHC engines or not, I'm suspect that they are.

I like being able to get a late model 302 from an explorer to start with... funny thing is, I wait like, what, 3 years here in MD and I'll be able to put historic tags on it so emmissions will not be a concern to worry about whether its an OBII 302 donor car or not. I need to do some research and see what engines ford has to choose from between the years of like 89 to 99 or something like that.
 
#13 ·
I can't walk away from the one I have. It has the interior I like and I have already started body mods and suspension upgrades. I know a lot of that can be converted over, but then I'd have to swap interiors... I think I'd just be trading one pain in the *** for another.

If the earlier birds came with a 5.0 I'm not following why getting one in a 95 would be that difficult? I haven't looked at the details on that swap, but why wouldn't it be factory parts to get the engine in (i.e. engine mounts for example)?
 
#5 ·
Do the unthinkable/impossible and enjoy the knuckle busting action of 5.4L DOHC!
 
#8 ·
I say, 351...Cleveland. The 4V headed variety.
 
#9 ·
5.0L DOHC Coyote Dimensions

Here's the Dimensions of 3 Modular Engines..That should help you decide which Engine will fit best.. :thumbsup:


5.0L DOHC
28" Length
26" Height
27-1/2" Wide

4.6L DOHC
28" Length
29-7/8" Height
30" Wide

4.6L SOHC
28" Length
26" Height
28-5/8" Wide




Rayo...
 
#12 ·
Here's the Dimensions of 3 Modular Engines..That should help you decide which Engine will fit best.. :thumbsup:


5.0L DOHC
28" Length
26" Height
27-1/2" Wide

4.6L DOHC
28" Length
29-7/8" Height
30" Wide

4.6L SOHC
28" Length
26" Height
28-5/8" Wide




Rayo...
I was pretty certain there was only a 3" difference between the 4.6L DOHC and the new 5.0L DOHC. I know that little bit can make a difference, but I don't think enough.
 
#20 ·
A supercharged 5.4L 2V would be great, but with overhead cams its probably exactly like having the original 4.6L SOHC engine, as far as footprint is concerned.

If I was gonna do that though, I should have just kept everything I just sold. I think I need to go with a pushrod engine. The first gen Lightning 351 for a 1995 is most likely what I'm gonna need to go with.

Anyone have any clue what other cars were equipped with the 1st gen lightning engine - and are there "better" and "worse" ones to look for or stay away from?
It sucks... I noticed Kenne Bell doesn't offer a supercharger for a 1st gen lightning.
 
#17 ·
Anyone ever drop a Cleveland in these cars or any other 335 series motor? That would be cool.
 
#18 ·
There's a few but it's really not worth these days. The only ones any good were made in a 4 year period and the modified series are bigger boat anchors than the 5.4 2V. The Windsor just has so much more modern go fast parts available, the Cleveland parts are scarce and expensive and really not much good unless your doing a period restoration.
 
#19 ·
My friend had a Diamond Jubilee Thunderbird (76 I think) with the 351C and a 2 barrel. That thing was a dog. I think it ran 18-19s in the quarter. I have also heard you can change the rods and crank and make it into a 400M, but he never did it.
 
#28 ·
The 95 Cobra R lol You'll have to piece it together if you don't source it from a lightning. Any blower for a 5.0 should fit as long as you use the 351 lower intake. You need the SN95 or tbird acessories and brackets too.

If real estate is that much of a concern you may as well build a 3.8. No V8 fits well in one of these fully dressed. SBF's are long and tall and modulars are wide and tall.
Yeah, I'm not even gonna try and find actual "cobra R" items... I'd presume the name tag jumps the price quite a bit. I would be intersted in the Lightning engine though. I have the 95 accessory brackets from the car already... would just need to send then out to get 'em pretty'd up.

Can't do the 3.8, I like the sound of V8s too much... a V8 powerplant and rumble is just so much of the hotrod hobby for me. Every "play" car I'v eever owned was a V8.

Thanks very much - this info has been VERY helpful to get me pointed in a direction to research a new engine option. I think a lightning engine is gonna be the initial plan here - unless I learn something terrible that prevents it from happening.
 
#24 ·
Try to beat the explorer swap for easy swap and bump in power. I mean I wouldnt fight the upgraded 2v swap, I really wouldnt. Maybe you can be like that guy who swapped in a supra motor LOL, something totally different.
 
#42 ·
If you want to stay with fuel injection and don't care about brand loyalty, I would seriously consider a GM LS1, LS2, LS3, etc motor. Normal small block width, many are factory aluminum blocks / heads, all have decent to awesome flowing heads and intake etc.

If you didn't care about having an aluminum block, they can be built up pretty cheap with junkyard truck motors like the 4.8l/5.3l and 6.0's.
 
#44 ·
I think I like the 94' or 95' model year Lightning 351 option.

My car is already headed in the direction of "what would it look like had Ford built an SVT t-bird".

I know this was actually done, but like the 17" fanblade rims, Cobra R induction hood, cobra brakes, etc.... these have been done on my car and it all looks factory.

Placing an engine in the car, especially from the same year, that was a factory HO engine and even used in the Cobra R cars kind of just fits very well into the overall build. I saw one on eBay last night for $1800 plus shipping (high mileage, but I'll be rebuilding and upgrading anyway... I just need a complete engine).

I didn't even think of the LS engines being aluminum. This would also take away all of the guess work to mating to the GM t56 trans. I just have to think that there would not be ANY difference between trying to install a Ford 351 that was never available in the car and a GM LS engine - as far as difficulty goes.
 
#45 ·
I just looked on Craigslist and found 2 Ford Lightnings, one about 15 minutes from me for a 1993 for $3500 and another around the corner from me for a 1995 for $6500

This would allow me to have the entire donor for a reasonable price and probably enough parts on the vehicle to comp a large portion of the inital price.

Its just good to know they are available
 
#46 ·
but the ford 351W will bolt up using factory parts, the GM engine will require some kind of custom mounts to be made, along with a new placement for the tranny crossmember.

also, why are you dead set on a lightning motor?
its just a factory roller block, but no with the roller stuff installed if memory serves me correct.

Are you wanting a hydraulic roller settup for the cam?
 
#49 ·
I've heard many conflicting stories on this as well.

I've heard more often that the 351w in 1993 and 1994 were roller ready, meaning they are drilled and tapped for the roller equipment and in 1995 they were all roller equipped (in the Lightning only). Now, this also depended on the vehicle. The Lightnings supposedly had roller equipped blocks in 1995 and all 351w engines in 1996 had roller equipment from the factory. Of course, how much longer were we able to really enjoy a roller 351w, not much long after stoopid Ford...
 
#51 ·
What sucks is trying to find someone selling factory/OEM roller equipment (the spiders and the roller lifters) for under $200. People want all kinds of coin for that crap, and then even to buy it new is even more expensive. Or has the price of the roller equip dropped? I can only imagine with the economy, prices have gone up.

Easiest/cheapest thing to do is to find an already roller equipped 351w. Might have to pick it out yourself from an F-250 from the junk-yard, but they're out there....
 
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