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post #1 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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BIG TIME ISSUE! Help!

Alright so I finally got my tires mounted / balanced on my new rims.

I put the rims on the car today (17x9 36MM offset polished 03 cobras 4.25" bolt pattern from thecustomwheelshop) and when I got done putting them on I backed down the driveway. I heard a slight grinding and stopped immediately and pulled the car back up the driveway. Pulled the wheels back off and it looks like the inner lip of the rim is contacting the spindles on both the left and right sides. What on earth is going on there? I was going to get a four wheel alignment today, but this is serious bizz. Anyone else running 17x9 36mm offset?

If it helps my cat is lowered 1.6" with Vogtland springs and KONI Adjustables all around



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post #2 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 04:27 PM
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Lots of people run 17x9 +36, including me, with no issue. Tire offset won't change as a result of different springs or shocks; the only possibilities I see are a rotor which isn't thick enough against the hub, a fluke with the spindles, or a casting problem with the wheels.

Lift the front end and try to turn the wheels by hand. What size tires are you running? I've read that 255 is about as much as you can fit up front without spindle contact; after feeling how close the spindles on my car are to the tires with my setup, I'm inclined to agree.

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post #3 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 04:27 PM
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I know those work great for the back IDK about the fronts, and I assume that's where your rubbing, I'm sure you could get a thin spacer to get it away from the spindles. Can you turn the wheel full lock and get a picture of the problem? It may be as simple as a balance weight rubbing, I've had that issue before.

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post #4 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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Running 245/45R17s all around. I have stick on weights, and they are not rubbing, the spindle was legitimately contacting the Wheel Lip. I'll try to get a pic.



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post #5 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 04:42 PM
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I'm no alignment guru but may be too much negative camber?

I do like the other suggestions. It could be any or all of the above ...

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post #6 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 05:04 PM
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The wheel should not contact the spindle, no matter how negative the camber setting is. One thing I'm thinking is worn hubs/ bearings, thus causing the top of the wheel to be closer to the spindle.

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post #7 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgino96tbird46 View Post
The wheel should not contact the spindle, no matter how negative the camber setting is. One thing I'm thinking is worn hubs/ bearings, thus causing the top of the wheel to be closer to the spindle.
Also was looking in there and just a thought.....but Strut rod bushings? Mine are ford originals there since March 1995

Here is a ton of pics to help with this...





Damage from Earlier:



The little white dot 1/2 way up the spindle is a bit of aluminum that rubbed off onto the spindle where it was contacting so that's the spot


I just let the car roll down the driveway REALLY slow and I don't hear anything contacting....I made sure the lugnuts were tightened down NICE and tight. It seems ok now, but I really don't want to even take it down the street in my neighborhood. I'm scared sh*tless to move it again.



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post #8 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 05:28 PM
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nah, couldn't be strut rod bushings either... It's gotta be either the spindle/ hub / brake rotor/ or the wheel itself. No matter what the rest of the suspension does that distance will remain static. You could remove those parts as a unit it would still rub laying on the ground.

I'd start by measuring the dimensions of the wheel just to be sure it is what it says it is. Next maybe the thickness of the rotor hat. I don't think you'd be able to drive with the bearings worn bad enough to cause that much tilt. Are they maybe maybe cheap replacement hubs that aren't quite to spec? Any reason to believe the car has older style spindles... or would that even make a differance?

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post #9 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 05:34 PM
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I highly doubt strut rod bushings would cause this. If anything, refer to your Ford/Mercury shop manual that you have and look through the suspension section. It will be Group 4. You'll see what I was talking about to you earlier when you called.

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post #10 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
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With the tire/rim up in the air I can spin the rim around with 0 contact, everything seems fine, but that's the left side, the right side was rubbing harder.



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post #11 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 06:22 PM
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Then it's definitely the hubs and/ or wheel bearings. If there is no rubbing with the car off the ground, but rubbing with the car on the ground, that's gotta be it. that is assuming the lug nuts are all torqued correctly.

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post #12 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 07:50 PM
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Worn wheel bearings could be the issue. Can you rock the wheels back and forth if you grab the top and bottom the wheels when they're off the ground?

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post #13 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by druggles85 View Post
nah, couldn't be strut rod bushings either... It's gotta be either the spindle/ hub / brake rotor/ or the wheel itself. No matter what the rest of the suspension does that distance will remain static. You could remove those parts as a unit it would still rub laying on the ground.

I'd start by measuring the dimensions of the wheel just to be sure it is what it says it is. Next maybe the thickness of the rotor hat. I don't think you'd be able to drive with the bearings worn bad enough to cause that much tilt. Are they maybe maybe cheap replacement hubs that aren't quite to spec? Any reason to believe the car has older style spindles... or would that even make a differance?
Those are definitely newer style spindles.

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Worn wheel bearings could be the issue. Can you rock the wheels back and forth if you grab the top and bottom the wheels when they're off the ground?
This is the best way to check, sounds like wheel bearings to me.

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post #14 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
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Ok so up in there air there is like zero movement, I put the car on the ground and I still have a TAD bit of clearance, but when I back down the slope in my driveway it rubs. I called Brad and he said he thinks 99% that it's my Duralast UCAs that are 3 years old. I also don't believe it's the rims, it's gotta be something suspension wise.



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post #15 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by '95Cougar_XR-7 View Post
Ok so up in there air there is like zero movement, I put the car on the ground and I still have a TAD bit of clearance, but when I back down the slope in my driveway it rubs. I called Brad and he said he thinks 99% that it's my Duralast UCAs that are 3 years old. I also don't believe it's the rims, it's gotta be something suspension wise.
I dont see how UCAs would change the clearance at that particular spot...

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post #16 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 08:25 PM
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The only things involved in how much clearance there is between the rim and spindle are the parts between the rim and spindle - the rim itself, the rotor, the hub and the bearing. The UCA, LCA, other suspension components won't change what clearance there is between the rim and spindle. Take off the UCA or LCA or endlinks or strut rod... that won't change the clearance because they don't change the position of the rim in relation to the spindle.

The problem lies in one of the components between the spindle and the rim.

If alignment or loading affects your clearance, you must have a worn bearing that flexes more than it's supposed to under changes to loading.

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post #17 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 10:28 PM
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I remember many moons ago when 95 Cobra Rs were all the rage spacers were almost a must have with them for this very reason.

I wouldn't rule out rotor thickness being a culprit and as many already have stated, no alignment, bushing or component other than the hub will bring the knuckle closer to the rim.

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post #18 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-22-2011, 09:28 AM Thread Starter
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Well when i am at speed with my stock rims on the car and I hit the brakes, the front end shakes back and forth and so does the steering wheel which leads me to believe warped brake rotors, could that be the culprit?



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post #19 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-22-2011, 09:43 AM
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Well seeing as your rotors are warped that would be a good place to start. Slap some new ones on and torque your lug nuts equally to help avoid warping them again. When you spun your wheel when it was jacked up did it make any grinding noises?

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post #20 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-22-2011, 10:21 AM
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Warped rotors wouldn't cause the issue, but the thickness of the rotor against the hub face could. Either way, get some good replacement rotors (not the cheap "lightweight" rotors) on there and go from there. Even if the rotors aren't causing the tire issues, they're warped and that in itself warrants their replacement.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/brake_rotors.htm Scroll down near the bottom of the page for a picture of the two types of rotors side by side.

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post #21 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-22-2011, 10:54 AM
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it had a set of those on my 97 the did not hit at all.

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post #22 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-22-2011, 11:09 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gcash81001 View Post
it had a set of those on my 97 the did not hit at all.
Wanna come take a peek at mine then? I think it COULD be my rotors, but who knows. I might slap the stock rims back on then go to the hobby shop and check rotor high/low spots and get the hubs checked to make sure it's not out of alignment.



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post #23 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-22-2011, 12:35 PM
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Do you happen to know what brand rotors are on your car now? Brandon brings up a good point with the "lightweight" rotors from the parts stores. I wouldn't think they'd take material from the hub face but you never know sometimes. Could be part of why they're warped.

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Originally Posted by '95Cougar_XR-7 View Post


....I made sure the lugnuts were tightened down NICE and tight.

Nice and tight as in torqued to spec in the proper sequence, or nice and tight as in zapped with an impact?

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post #24 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-22-2011, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Do you happen to know what brand rotors are on your car now? Brandon brings up a good point with the "lightweight" rotors from the parts stores. I wouldn't think they'd take material from the hub face but you never know sometimes. Could be part of why they're warped.




Nice and tight as in torqued to spec in the proper sequence, or nice and tight as in zapped with an impact?
I used a 4 way and put em on there really good with two hands in the star pattern. My front right hub has 5 studs but 1 is messed up so I can't put a lug nut on it until I replace it, but I doubt that's an issue. As far as the brand, I'm not sure.



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post #25 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-22-2011, 05:34 PM
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I used a 4 way and put em on there really good with two hands in the star pattern. My front right hub has 5 studs but 1 is messed up so I can't put a lug nut on it until I replace it, but I doubt that's an issue. As far as the brand, I'm not sure.
Buy a torque wrench, there not expensive.

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post #26 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-22-2011, 05:48 PM
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I agree!! But, spend a little extra and buy a torque wrench that goes to 250 ft. lbs so you can change your front hubs


If it's worth anything to anybody I Just measured the thickness of a set of old rotors, the face was 7mm. Now I know these aren't factory rotors but they're not "lightweight" Chinese junk (like I would normally buy) either.

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post #27 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-22-2011, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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I already have a 160 ft lb tq wrench that I paid good money for, None of my sockets can fit in the shallow holes though. Only the 4 way or a spline lug set will fit. We ended up putting the rims on gcash's tbird and he had no problems with it. So tomorrow I'll get new rotors and see what happens. If it's not the rotors it's the hub or wheel bearing.



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post #28 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-22-2011, 10:55 PM
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Cheapie from a parts store and a matching deep well socket is all you need. I don't use a 4 point anywhere but the junkyard(where I only remove things).

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post #29 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
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Does anyone else have a picture of their spindle to inner rim lip clearance who have 17x9 @36+MM offset? 4.25"x5?



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post #30 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 11:49 AM
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