Rear Shock Mount Rust - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-10-2014, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
ebecker54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Age: 31
Posts: 33
I was hoping to be provided with some opinions for the one issue remaining with my '97, rust in the rear passenger shock mount.

My assumption is that it won't be an "easy" fix, but would love some input from those of you familiar with body work, as I am not. What I am wondering is if patching it will hold it for a few years, or if a combination of patching and reinforcing either through a tower brace or roll cage will either eliminate the issue if it is indeed bad.

If it calls for removal of the rusted area(s), any guesses on the labor involved and my options?

Thanks, Eric





http://i62.tinypic.com/ejitlw.jpg

Also I should point out I'm aware of the other threads on the topic.

Last edited by Rodeo Joe; 10-11-2014 at 05:30 AM. Reason: Merged posts
ebecker54 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-10-2014, 02:55 PM
Humble MN12 Genius
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Posts: 16,641
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
So you're also aware that most of us will tell you it's toast and proper repair would be more costly than finding a rust free car?

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-10-2014, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
ebecker54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Age: 31
Posts: 33
Bingo

I need to address it one way or another in order to sell it (well...selling the engine, drivetrain, suspension, wheels, brakes, plus a free, rusting car!).

Last edited by Rodeo Joe; 10-11-2014 at 05:31 AM. Reason: Merged posts
ebecker54 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-10-2014, 06:13 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 10,112
Garage
The rust came from the outside in; the only way to fix it is to cut out all the damaged metal, and weld in new metal.

The way these cars are built, that's pretty much not really possible.

I'd sell it to a JY, part it out, or wait for it to break. You could give it away as a tax deduction sometimes.

I would not sell that to some one, personally, as a driving car. You could be liable.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is offline  
post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-10-2014, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
ebecker54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Age: 31
Posts: 33
Thanks for the input. However, a junkyard is out of the question. The car puts out 300 to the wheels (and for anyone reading that may remember a tuning issue previously where it made only 240, that was before Kooks and a good shop took over tuning duties), and other than the body, every component is brand new, modified, upgraded, or rebuilt...thus my quip about the free rusting car.

You hit the nail on the head with your statement, "The way these cars are built, that's pretty much not possible." What I am wanting to know is why? Many say this type of issue is a killer, and many say it's any easy fix.
ebecker54 is offline  
post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-10-2014, 06:49 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 10,112
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebecker54 View Post
What I am wanting to know is why? Many say this type of issue is a killer, and many say it's any easy fix.
It's 3 layers, iirc, of 20awg steel.

It rusted from the outside in, so the outside patch tends to be 3x the size of the inside patch.

You have to cut it all out, and replace it. That's hard to do, and expensive.

So, What do the rockers look like?

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is offline  
post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-10-2014, 06:55 PM
Seasoned PostWhore

Super Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tinton Falls, NJ
Age: 37
Posts: 7,443
Garage
Send a message via AIM to MadMikeyL
In order to fix that properly, first off you need plenty of access to it. That means removing the rear seat, V-brace, and figure on taking off the rear suspension on that side as well. Next, if you look in your first pic, you see the metal piece in the upper right that is partly gray and partly red that the V-brace bolts to? That is part of the package shelf, and it is attached to the shock tower. The combination of the V-brace, shock towers, and package shelf make up a structural part of the car that transfers suspension loads when turning. When you cut out the part of the shock tower and detach it from the package shelf, you better have some temporary bracing welded in to prevent the structure of the car from moving. Once you have enough access, you need to get in there with a cutoff wheel and cut out the affected area. This is pretty thick metal here, so a little dremel tool or air saw is not going to be powerfull enough. Now lets move further down to where the shock tower meets the trunk floor. See all that seam sealer there? First all of that has to get ground out, then underneath it will be a whole bunch of spot welds. Each spot weld will need to be drilled out, but only through the upper layer of metal, leaving the lower layer untouched so that you can weld the new piece to it. Once you have your rust area cut out, you now need to either fabricate a new one, which will be difficult if not impossible given the compound curves and the thickness of the metal, or go do this same thing all over again on another car in the junkyard, making sure to cut the new piece bigger than the hole in your car. Once that is all done, you will have to measure everything, make sure the hole for the shock tower is in the right place, and weld it back together from both sides, then re-apply the seam sealer where it meets the trunk floor, and the undercoating in the wheelhouse. After doing all this, I would also want to reinforce it with at the very least a shock tower brace between the 2, and possibly tying it into the package shelf as well. If this car has sentimental value to you, and it is important to keep this body, and if you are handy with a cutoff wheel and a welder and have several days to devote to this problem, then have at it! If the intention here is to make the car sellable, here's something else to think about; the right way to fix this, according to Ford, would be to replace that whole wheelhouse assembly, which can only be done by removing the quarter panel and installing a new one. Ford does not specify a location where you can safely section this piece, so if you sectioned it, and the weld location failed, you would be just as liable for selling an improperly repaired car as you would be for selling it as is. Matter of fact, you would probably be more liable because if you sold it as is, you have the plausible defense of saying you didn't know, but if you repair it improperly, you can't plead ignorance.

So figure a week of work for a repair that won't be proper, may rust out again, and still won't let you sell the car with a clear conscience, vs $1000 for a rust-free shell and a few days swapping your engine/trans/suspension into the new shell, then scrap this body for $400. It's your car, so its your call, but that is why most of us say the car is done.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
-"Your buddy Mike is INSANE!" -ClintD's dad
MadMikeyL is offline  
post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-10-2014, 06:56 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
ebecker54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Age: 31
Posts: 33
Our cars are expensive to fix? Say what?

Rockers are a year old now, but before they were replaced, only the driver side was rusted, and not too badly, really. The only other rust spot (I know of) is the passenger front wheel well. Everything else has been replaced and the spots weren't structural.

Mike (I assume), great explanation, thanks. I'm still on the fence with selling, but would never not make this issue known to prospective buyers; I assume the quickest sell for me would be the parts, anyway.

Last edited by Rodeo Joe; 10-11-2014 at 05:32 AM. Reason: Merged posts
ebecker54 is offline  
post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-10-2014, 08:12 PM
PostWhore
 
Black_Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Virginia Beach, Virginia
Age: 27
Posts: 1,640
Garage
Send a message via AIM to Black_Cat
It might be a difficult repair, but not impossible. If you find someone skilled enough they could do it with no problem. I just had the Cougar welded last weekend, the guy said the sheet metal is definately tough to weld, however doable, but when you find someone who can weld paper thin aluminum, paper thin steel is nothing. It will cost you some serious money, but if you like the car enough it could be worth it, otherwise I'd opt for a new body as the others have stated.



2011 BMW X5 35i Premium Package
2009 BMW 535i ///M Sport Package
Black_Cat is offline  
post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-14-2014, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
ebecker54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Age: 31
Posts: 33
I'm really not wanting to part with the car. I don't really have sentimental attachment to the body, so I'm not opposed to finding a new one, I'm just lazy, and with all the repairs made on the car so far and this really being the last issue, I'd like to see what can be done.

In the interest of hypotheticals, does anyone have any say on how a roll cage might play into a repair here? Let's assume money is not an issue, but also assume making a perfect "cut-and-replace" weld repair is an issue (let's say finding a rust-free body in Southwest Ohio is tough). In my model, I think some sort of patch/plate/sandwich job with some way to address the rust or prevent it from worsening, in addition to a cage that connects to the shock mounts may do the trick? I'd love some input and other possibilities if there are any.
ebecker54 is offline  
post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-14-2014, 06:29 PM
The Parts Guy
 
racecougar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Imperial, Missouri (near St. L
Age: 36
Posts: 7,265
Covering up the rust isn't the answer. Cut it out and weld in new metal. It's an involved repair, but it is a VERY doable job.

Rod @ AzzKicker Cars
[email protected]
90 XR7-The Meth Addict-KB SC'd 5.0L DOHC Stroker
2004 Mustang GT-The Driver-Intake/Exhaust/3.73's
1995 F150 4x4-The Mud Toy-5.0L/4R70W/33's/Warn 8274 Winch
94 LX w/Splitport 3.8L from 2000 Mustang - SOLD
2 - 90 35th Anny Ed SC's
And a TON of parts cars!
racecougar is offline  
post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-17-2014, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
ebecker54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Age: 31
Posts: 33
I know that covering up the problem is not the answer, and apologize for my lack of clarity in my previous post. I am wanting to know how or if a cage and mount crossmember will relieve stress from the area that is now rusted that will be repaired.

I'm also fairly certain I won't be able to find a rust-free body in the area, let alone one with rust-free shock mounts, nor do I believe it's more cost-efficient, even in relation to the car's monetary worth, to swap bodies than to make this repair if one in good condition were available to me. The point I'm trying to make is that I'm wondering how doable this will be for a good body shop without a cut-out spare from another body, but I might bite the bullet and give it a shot. And I was wondering how this type of repair is any different from replacing rocker panels aside from the structural loads of the shock mounts (very involved and very costly are after all relative terms).

I appreciate everyone's input as always.
ebecker54 is offline  
post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-17-2014, 05:37 PM
Humble MN12 Genius
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Posts: 16,641
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
To do it the way Mikey describes would probably match the cost of finding a rust free southern/western car, and then the cost of paint(since the quarter will have to be removed) would far exceed the cost of getting the car too you. Plus, if you found a doner car with those pieces rust free, you should just swap everything to THAT CAR.

A cage throws a wrench into the equation since you can effectively create a separate structure within the car just repair the rust in whatever fashion and tie it all together, but that's not exactly cheap either.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-19-2014, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
ebecker54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Age: 31
Posts: 33
Matt, now you're speaking my language. My thoughts are that if I'm hoping to go through the trouble, and if I care to keep the car or upgrade it further (or to sell), I might consider a cage. Has anyone tied a cage to the rear shock mounts with or without a crossmember?

At this point, I will probably have the body shop free form new panels, and whatever advice is given as far as a roll cage goes, I'd like to tie the mounts to that as well (I will be getting a cage, the question now comes down to timing with this repair).

EDIT: By cage I mean roll bar, before someone goes off on me.

Last edited by ebecker54; 10-19-2014 at 05:57 PM.
ebecker54 is offline  
post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-20-2014, 08:00 AM
4th Gear Poster
 
soundman502's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Indiana
Age: 37
Posts: 212
Garage
ebecker54, I'm in the exact same boat as you, except mine broke completely through. I'm considering the same concept as you in that I know that I can't feasibly "fix" the body, but if I think I could create a framework inside the trunk area that would be able to not only firm up the rear, like the tower braces, but could also add in mounting points for the shocks as well. Will it be pretty, no, but neither is an MN12 in a junk yard.

1996 Thunderbird LX 4.6L 147,000 mi.
Mods: Stock

1979 Ford Bronco Custom 5.8L Modified 188,000 mi.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2547728
soundman502 is offline  
post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-24-2014, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
ebecker54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Age: 31
Posts: 33
I will be speaking again with the body shop this next week to work things out, and will do my best to follow through on the outcome.
ebecker54 is offline  
post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-28-2014, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
ebecker54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Age: 31
Posts: 33
UPDATE:
The rust is only pertinent on the interior, and practically nonexistent outside.

http://i58.tinypic.com/34ecks3.jpg

I've decided not to address it for now as I will be selling the car (and thus need to hit 30 posts to post in the Marketplace )
ebecker54 is offline  
post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-28-2014, 12:10 PM
MA Chapter Director

Administrator
 
Rodeo Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Franklin, MA
Age: 62
Posts: 7,959
Garage
Actually it's 50!

Joe

It's not a 97 Sport, it just looks like one!

Mass. TCCoAers, Send me your info!

I buy all my Ford parts from 93 lx.

Member of the TCCoA Damage Control Team.

R.I.P. Johnny Langton 1975 - 2011
Rodeo Joe is offline  
post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-28-2014, 12:11 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
ebecker54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Age: 31
Posts: 33
Nooooo! Where's the post showing such?
ebecker54 is offline  
post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-28-2014, 12:22 PM
MA Chapter Director

Administrator
 
Rodeo Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Franklin, MA
Age: 62
Posts: 7,959
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebecker54 View Post
Nooooo! Where's the post showing such?
Newbie Forum

Cars For Sale

But of course if you provide FULL contact information to a Forum Administrator including your legal name, a valid mailing address and contact phone number we'll see what we can do!

Joe

It's not a 97 Sport, it just looks like one!

Mass. TCCoAers, Send me your info!

I buy all my Ford parts from 93 lx.

Member of the TCCoA Damage Control Team.

R.I.P. Johnny Langton 1975 - 2011
Rodeo Joe is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome