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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-30-2017, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
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Where To Find Rust Free MN12

I'm starting this thread in an effort to help current and future MN12 enthusiasts find Rust-Free cars..

Basically, I've put together a map of the United States that illustrates what parts of the country to avoid when looking for a rust-free MN12..

Some people really love the MN12, but are having trouble finding a rust-free one..
So let's help future and current MN12 enthusiasts find these rust-free cars, and the best parts of the country to look..

Rust Free MN12 Map.JPG

It's come to my attention that almost every state in the U.S. puts some sort of salt or brine solution on the road in the Winter..
Not every part of the country does this though..

This practice of using salt in any form on the roads in Winter is a major contributor to rust found on our cars..
(Sodium Chloride) (Calcium Chloride) (Magnesium Chloride)

This isn't a debate if road salt causes your car to rust..

Many MN12 owners out there drive their car year round..
Even car washes are just not going to prevent the rust that will inevitably take over a car that is driven daily on salted Winter roads..

Let's get some feedback from members around the country that drive their MN12 year round, and the effects road salt has had on their MN12..

As well as the accuracy of the "Rust Map"

What parts of the country do you guys live in, where your MN12 has NOT suffered the ill-effects of rust??

I don't mean surface rust either, I'm talking about the kind of rust that has eaten a hole through part of your car..

Let's keep this MN12 themed..








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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-30-2017, 06:11 PM
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How is Florida is above California? I've personally been to Colorado junkyards and looked at MN12s that were cleaner than the couple Florida MN12s I've looked closely at.

Salty wet air can be as bad as northern winter road salt.

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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-30-2017, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
How is Florida is above California? I've personally been to Colorado junkyards and looked at MN12s that were cleaner than the couple Florida MN12s I've looked closely at.

Salty wet air can be as bad as northern winter road salt.
Agreed! Especially since there are lots of people in FL that have either relocated there from the northeast, or bounce back and forth, so just because a 20+ year old car is in FL now doesn't make it particularly likely that it spent its entire life there.

I would make SC, GA, and FL orange, at least along the coast. And if we are only talking about rust, and disregarding faded paint comes with some of the rust-free areas, then pretty much all of CA, NV, AZ, NM, and TX should all be dark green.
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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-30-2017, 07:10 PM
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If a car is from Virginia it's always a big selling point here, so I think of them as pretty good area to get a used car. But to be honest, PA cars here are way better than anything from NY.

You could have the northeast corner of the country from NY-MI an over; in their own category because that's about the worst part of the country. We have the worst salted roads due to lake snow and long winters.

In Indiana from Indy down isn't too bad either. They use little to no salt from what I recall.

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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-01-2017, 07:49 AM
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If you do one with interior parts Florida will get the worst. I look for body parts in Florida and interior parts from the north
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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-01-2017, 09:02 AM
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What is this rust stuff you people talk about?
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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-01-2017, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
What is this rust stuff you people talk about?
-g
Hip west coasters refer to it as patina
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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-01-2017, 12:37 PM
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I'm not sure I'd paint that much TX coastline dark green. Let's not forget all the sunbunnies who frequent the beaches.. and don't necessarily wash their cars soon after their visits. There are some public beaches down here where it's still allowed to park right at the water.

Only thing I can say for sure is that when I sell or part out my Bird, somebody is going to get a lot of rust-free MN12.
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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-01-2017, 05:21 PM
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My bird will never see a wet winter road. No rust...a Seattle car believe it or not... Rust free! Plan to keep it that way!
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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-01-2017, 05:53 PM
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Washington is not bad for rust since most of the Tbirds were off the roads before they did a statewide switch to Sodium Chloride from Magnesium Chloride. Soon we'll hear every culvert needs to be replaced.

Junkyards are not kind to the cars though. Everything cooks east of the cascades and lots of rain on the west side is not good for unsealed cars. Ones sitting in driveways for the last decade are probably best for the rust. Of course, minty and garaged forever is best.

Bare metal rusts everywhere in the state.

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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-01-2017, 05:56 PM
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My 89 SC has spent it's entire life in Eastern WA. Only rust of note is surface on the underside hood lip and bottom of the doors. That is getting fixed.

The 95 SC was Boise ID. Only rust is surface on the front seat rails. Both cars appear to have been parked with the sun rising on passenger side. Roof/trunk paint is toast.

Big thing to check in the PNW is pine needle and road dirt buildup in lower door cowls/behind fender panels and under GFX if so optioned. I got lucky. Bunch of crap but no harm done.

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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-02-2017, 07:37 AM
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Yeah, when I got her, there was some tree & brush debris in areas... All cleaned up now. Car did have water spots or some spots on the body and glass which would not come out with any product I had.... Polishing compound got the paint, cerium oxide powder got the glass....
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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-02-2017, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the input fellas..

Now to address some of the comments made on the "Rust Map"

The "Dark Green" areas on the map, are areas that don't treat the roads with salt of any form in the Winter..

The "Neon Green" areas on the map, do have areas in the state that treat the roads with salt of some sort in the Winter..

That's not to say, someone couldn't move from a Northern state to a "Green" state and bring their rusty car with them..

The map is based on cars that have stayed in their state for most of their life..

I'm also aware of the salty wet air near the sea that the map does not account for..
All of the states in "Green" that border the coast have that potential flaw..

It's impossible to account for every scenario, so some generalization is inevitable..

Unless a member from South Carolina, Georgia, or Florida chimes in says that area is full of rusty MN12, and shows some evidence of this..
Then those areas will stay "Green"

The "Dark Red" part of the map covers the "Salt Belt" region of the country..

Colorado could go either "Red" or "Green"..
I've read certain parts of the state are really bad about rusting cars out, due to them treating the roads with salt of some sort in the Winter..
Again, with sufficient evidence from a member living in the state..We could possibly change that one to "Green"

You guys get what I'm saying though..If the color of a state is in question, let's let a member from that state speak up..
Then I can adjust the map accordingly..

Thanks for speaking up Gordon, Washington state could have gone either "Red" or "Green"..
Since you confirmed that parts of the state are laying down salt of some sort in the Winter..We'll just keep that state "Red"

Thanks to everyone else as well, your feedback is invaluable!

Let's keep this going..







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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-02-2017, 10:54 AM
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So let me get this straight, you will not revise the inaccurate map unless you get physical evidence from 48 residents for each state, despite the fact that you created this map on a whim based on your own personal assumptions? Everybody who has chimed in so far has provided more evidence than you have "read" so far

I find it particularly funny you have dark green over the one teeny tiny part of California that happens to contain the SALTon Sea lol
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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-02-2017, 11:22 AM
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Florida, no road salt rust.

Any car with huge amounts of rust here was imported from road salt states.

Example, my 71 Mach 1, from New Jersey and my Granada, from New York.

My Pinto has some rust on the left rear fender, due to being a crappy design.

My 72 Mustang Grande had some minor rust under the vinyl half top.

Of the 24 automobiles I have owned in my life, none of the FL bred ones had the rust that
this thread is referring to.

Also my Pinto was parked 10' from the Intercoastal Waterway, nine hours a day, on Hollywood beach for
the first four years of my job with the city.
Not counting going to Fort Lauderdale Beach too during the 70's and 80's.

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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-02-2017, 07:45 PM
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Being close to the ocean doesn't cause rust. I am really close to the ocean and no rust. Houses get more damage on the beach than cars
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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-02-2017, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayo View Post
Thanks for all the input fellas..

Now to address some of the comments made on the "Rust Map"

The "Dark Green" areas on the map, are areas that don't treat the roads with salt of any form in the Winter..

The "Neon Green" areas on the map, do have areas in the state that treat the roads with salt of some sort in the Winter..

That's not to say, someone couldn't move from a Northern state to a "Green" state and bring their rusty car with them..

The map is based on cars that have stayed in their state for most of their life..

I'm also aware of the salty wet air near the sea that the map does not account for..
All of the states in "Green" that border the coast have that potential flaw..

It's impossible to account for every scenario, so some generalization is inevitable..
True. It is impossible so why try? Basically what you've done is outline the sun-belt as a rust-free zone.




VS.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayo View Post

Unless a member from South Carolina, Georgia, or Florida chimes in says that area is full of rusty MN12, and shows some evidence of this..
Then those areas will stay "Green"
Since you insist, based on LIVING in North Carolina and being married to a Tennessean we can tell you that overall those states need to be on the better side of the line. You want "evidence" just look at my car, or any of the Carolina Crew cars: RobertP, AndyR, Shadow, Shadow Dragon, BostonBull, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayo View Post
The "Dark Red" part of the map covers the "Salt Belt" region of the country..

Colorado could go either "Red" or "Green"..
I've read certain parts of the state are really bad about rusting cars out, due to them treating the roads with salt of some sort in the Winter..
Again, with sufficient evidence from a member living in the state..We could possibly change that one to "Green"

You guys get what I'm saying though..If the color of a state is in question, let's let a member from that state speak up..
Then I can adjust the map accordingly..

Thanks for speaking up Gordon, Washington state could have gone either "Red" or "Green"..
Since you confirmed that parts of the state are laying down salt of some sort in the Winter..We'll just keep that state "Red"

Thanks to everyone else as well, your feedback is invaluable!

Let's keep this going..

Rayo..
Stop trying to reinvent the wheel. There are a lot of "rust maps" out there. After a quick search I found this one USAtoAUS | Locating American Cars for import that I don't even agree with based, as you said, on too many variables.

Here are some other fun maps that I found along with a "rust belt" map. LITR pages Craig White UHCL images

I also found the third map at the link above with "Bible, Jello, the "Unchurched" and of course Mexamerica, pretty entertaining. The only one I didn't understand and had to look up was Jello-belt. The rest are self explanatory.

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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-02-2017, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayo View Post
I'm also aware of the salty wet air near the sea that the map does not account for..
All of the states in "Green" that border the coast have that potential flaw..

The "Dark Green" areas on the map, are areas that don't treat the roads with salt of any form in the Winter..

The "Neon Green" areas on the map, do have areas in the state that treat the roads with salt of some sort in the Winter..
As for the Neon green in California, you can pretty much eliminate that from everything West of the Sierra Nevada mountains. They dont salt the roads - even in the Tahoe region, salt is not used. I cannot speak for anything north of that, but most of this region would be Dark green in my opinion with the exception of a few areas I will expand on in the next quote ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1995 cougar xr7 View Post
Being close to the ocean doesn't cause rust. I am really close to the ocean and no rust. Houses get more damage on the beach than cars
The ocean doesnt necessarily cause rust, its the moisture in the air that gets retained. Its mostly from the Fog that rolls inland .. a little south of where I live, the fog rolls inland to Salinas and the cars that come out of that area are rust buckets even though its not that close to the ocean. At the power plant in Moss Landing, the pipes that run to the ocean are covered in rust. The ones that got insulated are much worse, since the moisture gets trapped inside the insulation. So like you said, its not the ocean itself, but the moisture that gets retained / suspended in the air for longer periods of time is much worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
What is this rust stuff you people talk about?
-g
Youve seen my stockpile of junk in the backyard, been sitting around for too many years but nothing that wouldnt come off with a little elbow grease.

On the subject of "Rust Free" vehicles .. are there people actually looking for these cars anymore ?? I have three of them I cant get rid of. LOL
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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-03-2017, 12:36 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey
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In an effort to help future and current MN12 enthusiasts..I've taken it upon myself to make a thread of this here on TCCoA..

So when an MN12 enthusiasts starts looking for a rust-free car..They can come to a site dedicated to MN12 to find that information..

You can choose to be reactive or proactive..I've chosen the latter, as I've demonstrated so many times here..

It would be admirable of you to support these kinds of threads, rather than belittling them..






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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-03-2017, 01:42 AM
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I think this topic has relevance, but the problem I find with it is that the rust belt is generic and well known geographically as Ron points out, there's nothing unique or special about rust regions as it relates to the MN12 platform, and the map as presented is clearly flawed.

I'm not suggesting a Florida coast car will be as bad as a daily driven beater from Chicago, but they won't be like a southern CA car, all things being equal. Even if the extent of it amounts to inconsequential surface rust of suspension components and oxidized fasteners. Cars from here that only get driven spring through fall get this sort of corrosion regardless, they pretty much look the same as Florida cars in fact.

Plus road salt doesn't create terminal rust overnight. A state(or part of a state) may get a bout of snow and they use salt to melt it, and then a week later the snow melted and basically over for a long period, maybe for the season. That's no more exposure than a car with sea air gets, and I'd say quite a few of those red western/northwestern states, and a few dark red eastern states apply(the worst of Virginia will never equal the worst of us) . It's very a different scenario than here or the northeast where it is being used during some winters on a near daily basis with roads that are perpetually wet for months and months on end.

Plus it's a matter of your standard of rust free and your opinion of how much rust is too much. My car has a few spots despite being well taken care of but none of it is extensive or critical. Of course I'd prefer totally "rust free", but if I had the opportunity to straight up swap bodies with a totally spotless southwestern car that needs a full paint job from UV damage, I'm sticking with my rust bucket. Writing off every last car in the deep red states is potentially the opposite of admirable because there are probably decent examples closer to you if you know what to watch out for, and properly fixing them may actually be more economical if the extent of it is minor.

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post #21 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-03-2017, 01:15 PM
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How come Nevada is in the "good" but not in the "best". We quite literally have no salt and no water and absolutely no rain here, nothing has rust here. That map is retarded lol.
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post #22 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-04-2017, 11:11 AM
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In Georgia, the only city I know of that 'brines' the roads is Atlanta.
Other than that, I have not seen any form of salt used on the roads.

The East Bay of SF Bay also uses no salt, and I never noticed any salt deposit
from the dew in the early AM, nor over the hill into the Walnut Creek,
San Ramon, Dublin, Pleasanton, or Livermore areas. There's more salt in the water
in the latter two, and it WILL leave water spots that require effort to remove.


SoCal in Orange and Riverside counties has no need for salt, and the coastal
areas don't seem to get salt misted, at least when you are a little bit inland.

Indianapolis salted the roads in winter in the past, as did Chicago and the area
around Springfield, MA. The only salt I saw in Colorado was on the roads in/near
Denver and on I-80 on the way west from Denver. Most Colorado cars are rust-free.

For the damage road salt causes, the tiny raising of the freeze point of water seems
a terribly costly tradeoff.
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post #23 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 08:24 AM
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The map is a great idea, but like others have mentioned, it needs work. I wouldn't have the cutoff at a state line, but maybe down the middle of some states. Virginia is a good example. Southern VA is good.

Montana is good? Wyoming? They get a ton of snow, I thought.

Like already mentioned, NC & TN should be green.

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post #24 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for everyone's feedback..I made some changes to the "Rust Map" reflecting that..

I know some areas could be shaded a "Dark Green" like Southern California for example, but I'll just leave it green for now..

Does anyone else think Virginia should be green?






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post #25 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 05:46 PM
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SoCal born and raised here. All of, if not at least SoCal, should be dark green. Maybe the spot around Salton Sea may need to be light green because of Salton Sea runoff when there's rain. My T-Bird has a bit of surface rust on her "bald spot" of the roof. My Accord has absolutely no rust anywhere. None of the cars I grew up with had rust anywhere either, and I'm one of those people that keeps their cars for as long as possible.

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post #26 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-06-2017, 07:42 AM
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Here is a link of the states that use salt. https://www.google.com/search?q=us+m...=1499344084296

But a lot of the Southern and Western states use a very small amount compared to the Northern states. This pic is pretty much the "hot spot".

And I didn't mean the whole state of VA, just the Southern plains.

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post #27 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-07-2017, 10:33 AM
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As to the belt itself, most can agree with: wiki

Ford and other makes have had lots of problems with corrosion in the rust belt. A tragic example: Windstars recalled again
Google finds all kinds of dangerous corrosion issues in various Ford models, from fuel tank straps rusting through, letting the tank drag on the ground, to license plate lamps shorting and causing fires, to control arms separating.

I couldn't find MN-12 specific rust recalls, but generally, Ford considers the typical rust belt states to be problematic.

Given the variables involved in ownership and care, I doubt that any tweaked map will result in increased accuracy/reliability over the standard rust belt map in locating "clean" cars in any specific platform, including the MN-12.
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I'll go ahead and leave the "Rust Map" as is for now then..

I think some of you are missing the point of this thread to begin with though..
Spread throughout the internet are different maps and whatnot, but this is a forum dedicated to MN12..

Believe it or not, there are actually people that exist..That are interested in finding rust-free MN12..

So instead of posting a Wiki link, or saying "Got Search" to someone..

This thread, and the "Rust Map" will be a tool to aid them in their search for a rust-free MN12..
Right here, in this thread on TCCoA

I should stress though..The "Rust Map" alone is not enough, but is a good tool to start with in the search for a rust-free MN12..

A CARFAX Vehicle History Report will tell you what part of the United States the car has been registered in its life..

Armed with the information in this thread on ideal locations to find rust-free MN12, and a CARFAX Vehicle History Report..

The only thing left to do after that, is to actually look at the car..So you can see how well it was taken care of..

There will be a day when someone comes online looking for this information, and we can point them to this thread






Rayo..

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post #29 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-09-2017, 05:24 PM
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So would you personally avoid a car from a lighter red state based on this?

The only thing unique to the MN12 or any other car as it relates to rust is where on the body/chassis it happens. It's not as if the map changes for a SN95 or Panther platform vehicle.

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post #30 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-09-2017, 06:43 PM Thread Starter
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Personally, I would avoid a car in a lighter red state..In fact, I would prefer to find something in a darker green part of a state..
That's just my personal preference..

The "Rust Map" doesn't reflect just rust-free MN12..It is a reflection of rust-free cars as a whole..
That said, it's still our map and something that could be relied on here on TCCoA..To help find where to look for rust-free MN12..


Sure, there are areas of the country that are bad on the paint..Regions where cars don't rust, but the sun bakes the hell out of them..

The amount of $$$$ spent to pay someone else to properly fix the rust on these cars can be astronomical vs just paying for a new paint job..

I don't really need to make the argument why someone would want a rust-free car..
It really goes without saying..






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