power window motor - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 01:00 AM Thread Starter
3rd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Benton, Ky
Posts: 162
Cool power window motor

Is it just me or is the hardest part about doin this job is getting the door panel off? Anyone else feel this way?
hershy314 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 01:17 AM
PostWhore
The AFDB is on a lil tight.
 
Splattered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: is hot
Posts: 3,868
I'd say hardest part is cleaning the old garbage out of the regulator.

Spinning pies like wheels.

DD driving my 20 year old project

Now with new ball joints...again
Splattered is offline  
post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 01:29 AM Thread Starter
3rd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Benton, Ky
Posts: 162
i found no unk in mine
hershy314 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 12:59 PM
Kind of slapped together
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bossier City, LA
Age: 63
Posts: 4,787
Hardest part was getting my hand in behind to hold the new motor to start the screws ... I'm strongly right-handed, and for the driver's side door, I had to use the uncoordinated left hand to start the screws. Never been good screwing with the left hand ...

Door panel is easy if you remember to a) remove all the screws, b) check beside / inside the light on the door (early MN12s the screw is beside it, later it's inside), and c) LIFT IT UP TO REMOVE IT.

RwP
RalphP is offline  
post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 05:00 PM
3rd Gear Poster
 
CATALYST916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sacramento
Age: 32
Posts: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splattered View Post
I'd say hardest part is cleaning the old garbage out of the regulator.
yup, i thought it was never gunna stop coming out. when i thought it was all out then another big piece would fall out lol
CATALYST916 is offline  
post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 07:17 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
kpthefatty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Greentown, OH
Age: 31
Posts: 517
i think this was the only job that i have ever done on a car that something else didnt break... so what i am saying is, i have no complaints.
kpthefatty is offline  
post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 09:10 PM
13's or Mildly Broken
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Blair, Nebraska
Age: 36
Posts: 2,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphP View Post
Never been good screwing with the left hand ...
Quoted because I found it amusing

And glad to see this thread - I'm going to be changing my drivers one tomorrow in hopes to fix my window issue.

-Melon

1994 Thunderbird SC 3.8L Supercharged
1999 Crown Victoria P71 4.6
2000 Explorer 5.0
Melon is offline  
post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 09:32 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
RESET's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Excelsior Springs, MO
Age: 42
Posts: 550
After removing the panels from these cars about 100 times, the only thing easier than removing the panels is opening the door. I can do them in about 2 min each. Why does everyone think this is so hard?
RESET is offline  
post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 09:54 PM Thread Starter
3rd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Benton, Ky
Posts: 162
my problem was i didnt know where the screws were at first, now i do
hershy314 is offline  
post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 10:14 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
RESET's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Excelsior Springs, MO
Age: 42
Posts: 550
Well that I can understand. They are kinda hidden. You didn't unscrew the buttons too did you? You can actually put the whole button panel thru the hole in the door. Most instructions on the net say to remove the buttons.
RESET is offline  
post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-20-2010, 02:51 AM Thread Starter
3rd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Benton, Ky
Posts: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by RESET View Post
Well that I can understand. They are kinda hidden. You didn't unscrew the buttons too did you? You can actually put the whole button panel thru the hole in the door. Most instructions on the net say to remove the buttons.
actually i did
hershy314 is offline  
post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-02-2010, 01:56 AM
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kissimmee, FL
Posts: 79
Okay, here's the issue I have...
When I press the window buttons my motors work fine I assume cuz I can here them running but the windows freeze until I assist them.. I heard it could be a pin kit for both sides, but what do I look for to confirm it once the panels are off!?! Sorry for jacking the thread!..
KNKLHED is offline  
post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-02-2010, 04:10 AM
13's or Mildly Broken
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Blair, Nebraska
Age: 36
Posts: 2,670
I had the same issue with my window - I'd push the button and hear the motor running but it would only move in short bursts unless I helped it up or down. And then finally, it didn't move at all even with help.

When you remove the door panel, you'll see 3 rivets - I did not remove these. If you look a bit closer, you'll see 3 bolts - those are what hold the motor on. Remove the door speaker, then those 3 bolts. You can get the motor out through the speaker hole. Once removed, just unplug the motor and it's free from the car. I had spare motors so I can't speak for replacing the pins or anything.

The hardest part I had was lining up the motor to bolt it back into place. Otherwise, it's very simple.

-Melon

1994 Thunderbird SC 3.8L Supercharged
1999 Crown Victoria P71 4.6
2000 Explorer 5.0
Melon is offline  
post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-18-2010, 07:29 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 3
There are plastic bushings around the motor gear. Cheap and easy to replace once you get the motor out. Any parts store should sell them. Tell them you need a window motor repair kit for a Ford, they will know what you mean.
salem is offline  
post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-19-2010, 01:14 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
NetKeym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,862
Yeh, I had to do both my windows, too. The pack comes with 6 teflon balls and I paid $3 for mine from Napa. Each window motor takes three. You'll see them when you take your door apart and take the motor out. I drilled out the rivets and bolted my window motors back to the door. Did anyone else do theirs that way?
NetKeym is offline  
post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-26-2010, 04:07 PM
PostWhore
 
dmw_4814's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 56
Posts: 1,164
Send a message via Yahoo to dmw_4814
I was having a problem with my driver's-side window, so I replaced both of my window motors (I decided to do both since they weren't that much money). My original motors were NOT riveted in, but the were attached with bolts instead. The whole job was very easy.

However, this did NOT solve my problem! My passenger-side window goes up and down fine, but my driver's-side still slows down and acts as if its "binding" on the way down. Sometimes I have to put my hand on it and force it down. Once it gets past a certain point, it then starts operating normally again. I believe the problem lies in the window run channel. If it is not in perfect condition and not positioned perfectly, the window will not go up and down smoothly. I've tried adjusting it, but I just can't get it to work properly. Part of the problem is that the bolt attaching the window run channel (or door glass run, as it's also called) to the door pulled through the door and the glass run was rattling inside the door for the longest time. I didn't even realize that was what was rattling until I took the door panel off to replace the window motor. I reattached it by using a washer under the bolt head that was a larger diameter thatn the bolt head/hole in the metal, but I still just can't get it to operate properly. I'm at a loss as to what to do next as these door glass runs are no longer available from Ford.

Dennis
dmw_4814 is offline  
post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-27-2010, 12:27 PM
PostWhore
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: albany, ny
Posts: 1,170
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmw_4814 View Post
I was having a problem with my driver's-side window, so I replaced both of my window motors (I decided to do both since they weren't that much money). My original motors were NOT riveted in, but the were attached with bolts instead. The whole job was very easy.

However, this did NOT solve my problem! My passenger-side window goes up and down fine, but my driver's-side still slows down and acts as if its "binding" on the way down. Sometimes I have to put my hand on it and force it down. Once it gets past a certain point, it then starts operating normally again. I believe the problem lies in the window run channel. If it is not in perfect condition and not positioned perfectly, the window will not go up and down smoothly. I've tried adjusting it, but I just can't get it to work properly. Part of the problem is that the bolt attaching the window run channel (or door glass run, as it's also called) to the door pulled through the door and the glass run was rattling inside the door for the longest time. I didn't even realize that was what was rattling until I took the door panel off to replace the window motor. I reattached it by using a washer under the bolt head that was a larger diameter thatn the bolt head/hole in the metal, but I still just can't get it to operate properly. I'm at a loss as to what to do next as these door glass runs are no longer available from Ford.

Dennis
Try lubing up the felt glass runs with liberal amounts of silicone spray (can't hurt, right? And its suggested in the manual too). Lube up the internal regulator tracks too with teflon grease.

Last edited by tbirdguy; 04-07-2012 at 12:28 PM.
tbirdguy is offline  
post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-16-2010, 02:59 PM
5th Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 408
Sorry to revive an old thread. The OP has probably done the job already, but anyway, my 2 cents. This is for the novices at this sort of repair. Seasoned mechanics may not get much out of it (but you can fact-check me if you like):

I recently repaired my driver's side door motor. The urethane bushings were ground into a million bits (yes, I counted them! ok, I didn't).

Don't plan on replacing your original '96 metal gear assembly that press fits in/atop the bushings with the one from Cardone, because it DOESN'T FIT W/O MODDING. The lip/rim of the sleeve sits too high to fit under the gear housing seal plate. I was determined to make it work, so I spent more time on it than I should have. Filing that sleeve down took a long time -- had to go easy and do many fit checks or I'd have filed off too much; and it filed like it was hardened steel (the sleeve), using an almost new file. If your old gear assembly isn't trashed, save yourself the trouble and reuse it!
All you're likely to need for most stuttering/bumping/stalling fixes are the new urethane bushings anyway.

The Cardone plastic worm gear appeared tough enough and it fit the motor housing just fine, so I used it.

Those considering repairing their own window motor need to be mindful of the regulator counterbalance spring. If you remove just the motor from the door w/o the regulator arms fixed in position, the spring will snap the regulator arm down HARD toward the bottom of the door after you push out the last motor bolt -- if your finger(s) are caught in the wrong spot, it is forceful enough to do serious damage to it/them.

IMHO, it's better to remove the regulator with motor attached, for several reasons:
1. It's safer, because the motor gear will keep the spring in place -- use a bench vise to help you ease off the spring tension as you dismount the motor.
2. You can clean the regulator with it off the vehicle -- mine was getting some rust, so I wire brushed it down nice-n-clean. I also removed all the old lube with a screwdriver and aerosol cleaner, as it was dry/hard in spots.
3. You can easily relube the regulator -- can be done on vehicle, but much more difficult to get at and you can't effectively clean the old lube gunk off (trying to will make a mess inside your door as well). The Cardone kit came with some kind of red grease (it looks like bearing grease), which I used on the metal external gear, but I opted for white lithium grease on the internal worm gear(s), regulator joints, spring and plastic channel slides. I already had the lithium grease in a syringe, ready to get in the recesses; the red grease packet had a cut-away "nozzle" end that made for easy enough application on the motor gear.

If you're worried about drilling out the large rivets, don't. You do not need new rivets. To reattach my regulator, I used stainless, truss head (perhaps they're panhead, but a low-profile version if so) hex bolts with stainless, external-toothed lockwashers and stainless nuts. I got these from the local Home Depot and Lowes, so they aren't hard to find.
The bolt head goes on the inside of the door to ensure clearance and there's room for the nuts/washers in the rivet pits on the trim side of the door. I used a 3/8" drive hex bit to tighten them down -- people with really large arms/hands might have difficulty with this, as it's a tight squeeze in there and you have to feel your way around to get the bit engaged on the bolt (there's no room for even a small lighted service mirror; I tried it). A 1/4" drive with a shorter bit might help some, but there's still very little maneuvering room in there.
Sorry, I don't have the exact bolt dimensions handy, as I've misplaced the packaging and the bolts are on the assembled door. I can look for them if anyone needs specs.
Meanwhile, just measure the holes in the door, the thicknesses of the regulator, door and the nut+washer, and get bolts just long enough that the ends are flush with the nut once tightened. You can cut them to length, but stainless IS tougher to machine, so best to get the right length to begin with. You don't have to use stainless, of course. I chose to because I didn't want to take the chance of having to deal with rusted bolts should I need to remove the regulator again. Stainless hardware does cost more, but it was worth it to me. I know, zinc plate... but I couldn't find any the right size and they're not as rustproof as stainless anyway.

The motor itself was a mess. First, I had to clean out all the bits and pieces of bushings. They were in every conceivable nook and cranny of the entire housing. To remove it all, I had to completely disassemble the motor. For the uninitiated, reassembly can be tricky if you aren't careful. You should note the order and orientation of the parts as they're removed so you don't forget something, and you must remember to use the brush retainer to keep them off the rotor during assembly -- otherwise you'll be tempted to push the rotor back in normally, but it won't fully insert (even though it looks like it should fit!). This is not my first electric motor disassembly, not by a long shot. However, everything flew apart upon dismantling this one, so it took me a while to figure out how the brushes were held in place -- it's done with a plastic shaft sleeve (one which I had carelessly placed away from my work area). When you push the motor assembly back into the gear housing, the worm shaft catches on a rim, which in turn pushes the sleeve down the shaft and off the brushes, freeing them. Whatever you do, do not lose or damage this retaining sleeve! Because the brushes are completely covered by the motor casing during reattachment to the gear housing, it is impossible to get any tools in there to manually hold the brushes, and you'll be hard pressed to find a suitable replacement, even from a plastic supply house (e.g., a tube to cut one from).

My motor has been working flawlessly for months with the Cardone kit, after the aforementioned mod, which shouldn't have been necessary. The window is faster/smoother than the passenger side, so I may refurb that one soon for good measure, even though it's been used far less than the driver's side.

Good luck!

Last edited by Torque; 07-16-2010 at 03:14 PM.
Torque is offline  
post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-15-2010, 03:41 PM
5th Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Age: 75
Posts: 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torque View Post
Sorry to revive an old thread. The OP has probably done the job already, but anyway, my 2 cents. This is for the novices at this sort of repair. Seasoned mechanics may not get much out of it (but you can fact-check me if you like):

I recently repaired my driver's side door motor. The urethane bushings were ground into a million bits (yes, I counted them! ok, I didn't).

Don't plan on replacing your original '96 metal gear assembly that press fits in/atop the bushings with the one from Cardone, because it DOESN'T FIT W/O MODDING. The lip/rim of the sleeve sits too high to fit under the gear housing seal plate. I was determined to make it work, so I spent more time on it than I should have. Filing that sleeve down took a long time -- had to go easy and do many fit checks or I'd have filed off too much; and it filed like it was hardened steel (the sleeve), using an almost new file. If your old gear assembly isn't trashed, save yourself the trouble and reuse it!
All you're likely to need for most stuttering/bumping/stalling fixes are the new urethane bushings anyway.

The Cardone plastic worm gear appeared tough enough and it fit the motor housing just fine, so I used it.

Those considering repairing their own window motor need to be mindful of the regulator counterbalance spring. If you remove just the motor from the door w/o the regulator arms fixed in position, the spring will snap the regulator arm down HARD toward the bottom of the door after you push out the last motor bolt -- if your finger(s) are caught in the wrong spot, it is forceful enough to do serious damage to it/them.

IMHO, it's better to remove the regulator with motor attached, for several reasons:
1. It's safer, because the motor gear will keep the spring in place -- use a bench vise to help you ease off the spring tension as you dismount the motor.
2. You can clean the regulator with it off the vehicle -- mine was getting some rust, so I wire brushed it down nice-n-clean. I also removed all the old lube with a screwdriver and aerosol cleaner, as it was dry/hard in spots.
3. You can easily relube the regulator -- can be done on vehicle, but much more difficult to get at and you can't effectively clean the old lube gunk off (trying to will make a mess inside your door as well). The Cardone kit came with some kind of red grease (it looks like bearing grease), which I used on the metal external gear, but I opted for white lithium grease on the internal worm gear(s), regulator joints, spring and plastic channel slides. I already had the lithium grease in a syringe, ready to get in the recesses; the red grease packet had a cut-away "nozzle" end that made for easy enough application on the motor gear.

If you're worried about drilling out the large rivets, don't. You do not need new rivets. To reattach my regulator, I used stainless, truss head (perhaps they're panhead, but a low-profile version if so) hex bolts with stainless, external-toothed lockwashers and stainless nuts. I got these from the local Home Depot and Lowes, so they aren't hard to find.
The bolt head goes on the inside of the door to ensure clearance and there's room for the nuts/washers in the rivet pits on the trim side of the door. I used a 3/8" drive hex bit to tighten them down -- people with really large arms/hands might have difficulty with this, as it's a tight squeeze in there and you have to feel your way around to get the bit engaged on the bolt (there's no room for even a small lighted service mirror; I tried it). A 1/4" drive with a shorter bit might help some, but there's still very little maneuvering room in there.
Sorry, I don't have the exact bolt dimensions handy, as I've misplaced the packaging and the bolts are on the assembled door. I can look for them if anyone needs specs.
Meanwhile, just measure the holes in the door, the thicknesses of the regulator, door and the nut+washer, and get bolts just long enough that the ends are flush with the nut once tightened. You can cut them to length, but stainless IS tougher to machine, so best to get the right length to begin with. You don't have to use stainless, of course. I chose to because I didn't want to take the chance of having to deal with rusted bolts should I need to remove the regulator again. Stainless hardware does cost more, but it was worth it to me. I know, zinc plate... but I couldn't find any the right size and they're not as rustproof as stainless anyway.

The motor itself was a mess. First, I had to clean out all the bits and pieces of bushings. They were in every conceivable nook and cranny of the entire housing. To remove it all, I had to completely disassemble the motor. For the uninitiated, reassembly can be tricky if you aren't careful. You should note the order and orientation of the parts as they're removed so you don't forget something, and you must remember to use the brush retainer to keep them off the rotor during assembly -- otherwise you'll be tempted to push the rotor back in normally, but it won't fully insert (even though it looks like it should fit!). This is not my first electric motor disassembly, not by a long shot. However, everything flew apart upon dismantling this one, so it took me a while to figure out how the brushes were held in place -- it's done with a plastic shaft sleeve (one which I had carelessly placed away from my work area). When you push the motor assembly back into the gear housing, the worm shaft catches on a rim, which in turn pushes the sleeve down the shaft and off the brushes, freeing them. Whatever you do, do not lose or damage this retaining sleeve! Because the brushes are completely covered by the motor casing during reattachment to the gear housing, it is impossible to get any tools in there to manually hold the brushes, and you'll be hard pressed to find a suitable replacement, even from a plastic supply house (e.g., a tube to cut one from).

My motor has been working flawlessly for months with the Cardone kit, after the aforementioned mod, which shouldn't have been necessary. The window is faster/smoother than the passenger side, so I may refurb that one soon for good measure, even though it's been used far less than the driver's side.

Good luck!
Let me pick your brain. Mine's a 95 (don't know if there's any difference in the window assembly) & my window would go up part way, stop & kind of twitch, go & finally quite working altogether. I can hear the motor spinning but the window doesn't move. I am assuming some gear has stripped. Is this what happened to yours?
I went on NAPA's website & found what's called a lift motor gear kit (P/N RAY 4922283). Is this what I need to replace?
Thanks for any help
Bymet is offline  
post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-16-2010, 04:49 PM
5th Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 418
I just repaired both windows on both thirds. I used advanced auto window motor lift kit pn below. Yours sounds correct.

When you take the motor cover off, the issue is clear. I had to dissassemble the motor to properly clean the worm gear on most of the motors. Bit tricky but not hard. You do NOT have to drill out the rivets. 3 bolts drop the motor. I can do these in my sleep now.

84635

1994 Thunderbird - Renegade Racing Long block, TFHS Trans, NA/SVO intake. Cam94 lives!
2010 Shelby GT500 - Black/Silver
1995 Thunderbird LX - 2000 GT PI Swap by W&S Motorsports - Sold on Tccoa.
Bill H is offline  
post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-16-2010, 09:54 PM
5th Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Age: 75
Posts: 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill H View Post
I just repaired both windows on both thirds. I used advanced auto window motor lift kit pn below. Yours sounds correct.

When you take the motor cover off, the issue is clear. I had to dissassemble the motor to properly clean the worm gear on most of the motors. Bit tricky but not hard. You do NOT have to drill out the rivets. 3 bolts drop the motor. I can do these in my sleep now.

84635
The kit I saw on NAPA is a gear only that looks similar but has a smaller gear that appears to fit inside the larger gear & doesn't have the 3 plugs. Advanced Auto also has a complete new motor for $60.00 (#83095). In your opinion is it worth saving $30.00 to disassemble the motor to clean it & replace the gear or just go with a new motor & not have to screw around with it?
I haven't taken the panels off yet to inspect but from what I'm reading it sounds like the gear is my problem.

Thanks
Bymet is offline  
post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-26-2010, 12:31 AM
5th Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Age: 75
Posts: 359
I want to thank everyone on this thread for their valuable input. I finally fixed my power window problem today. I ended up having to replace just the gear plugs (under $9.00 at Pep Boys). If I would have followed the Ford manual instructions I'd still be working on it. This thread had great information to shortcut the process, especially pulling the motor out through the speaker hole.
Thanks again

Jim
Bymet is offline  
post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-26-2010, 02:16 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Raptor22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chico, California
Age: 25
Posts: 2,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphP View Post
Hardest part was getting my hand in behind to hold the new motor to start the screws ... I'm strongly right-handed, and for the driver's side door, I had to use the uncoordinated left hand to start the screws. Never been good screwing with the left hand ...

Door panel is easy if you remember to a) remove all the screws, b) check beside / inside the light on the door (early MN12s the screw is beside it, later it's inside), and c) LIFT IT UP TO REMOVE IT.

RwP
Agreed, I had to do the opposite on my passenger window motor. I am insanely left handed....

[-----[ Conner ]-----] ASE P2 Automobile Parts Specialist - P4 General Motors Parts Consultant
The Blunderbird - 1989 Ford Thunderbird
3.8L V6 / M5R2 / 145,005 miles
Thunderbird SC Suspension Swap - Eibach Pro-Kit
JBL Premium Audio Swap - JL CP108 Subwoofer
Resonator Delete - Magnaflow DI/SO Muffler - Custom 2.5in Exhaust
Raptor22 is offline  
post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-14-2011, 05:10 PM
1st Gear Poster
 
Woodybiggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Flint,Mi
Age: 43
Posts: 30
Need some pics if there is any available of reassembling the motor,I had to take the whole thing apart to clean the worm gear,etc,it was a mess,but now Im not sure where the springs,etc;sit,thanks
Woodybiggs is offline  
post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-14-2011, 05:29 PM
PostWhore
 
Dusty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Rocket City, AL
Posts: 1,252
Garage
Good luck if you pulled the motor apart. I did that once and ended up buying a new motor. I could not get it back together so it would work.

I fine it is best to pick the small broken pieces of plastic with a small screw driver, if needed plug in the motor while holding it in my hand and running it a few turns an pick out more pieces.

1995 PI Tbird
2001 Lincoln Town Car Cartier L
1998 TA Vert
2004 Buick Regal GS
2000 Honda ST1100
1990 Mazda RX-7 2+2
Dusty is offline  
post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-14-2011, 06:24 PM
1st Gear Poster
 
Woodybiggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Flint,Mi
Age: 43
Posts: 30
Wish I would have thought of that beforehand,but I guess I will search and search somewhere to see if there is a diagram or take it to a shop and see if it'll cost less than buying a new motor
Woodybiggs is offline  
post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-19-2011, 09:08 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Plano, Texas
Age: 59
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodybiggs View Post
Need some pics if there is any available of reassembling the motor,I had to take the whole thing apart to clean the worm gear,etc,it was a mess,but now Im not sure where the springs,etc;sit,thanks

Try this link. I really found it quite useful. http://www.supercoupeperformance.com...0Reg%20Kit.htm
Green T is offline  
post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-21-2019, 11:10 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torque View Post
Sorry to revive an old thread. The OP has probably done the job already, but anyway, my 2 cents. This is for the novices at this sort of repair. Seasoned mechanics may not get much out of it (but you can fact-check me if you like):

I recently repaired my driver's side door motor. The urethane bushings were ground into a million bits (yes, I counted them! ok, I didn't).

Don't plan on replacing your original '96 metal gear assembly that press fits in/atop the bushings with the one from Cardone, because it DOESN'T FIT W/O MODDING. The lip/rim of the sleeve sits too high to fit under the gear housing seal plate. I was determined to make it work, so I spent more time on it than I should have. Filing that sleeve down took a long time -- had to go easy and do many fit checks or I'd have filed off too much; and it filed like it was hardened steel (the sleeve), using an almost new file. If your old gear assembly isn't trashed, save yourself the trouble and reuse it!
All you're likely to need for most stuttering/bumping/stalling fixes are the new urethane bushings anyway.

The Cardone plastic worm gear appeared tough enough and it fit the motor housing just fine, so I used it.

Those considering repairing their own window motor need to be mindful of the regulator counterbalance spring. If you remove just the motor from the door w/o the regulator arms fixed in position, the spring will snap the regulator arm down HARD toward the bottom of the door after you push out the last motor bolt -- if your finger(s) are caught in the wrong spot, it is forceful enough to do serious damage to it/them.

IMHO, it's better to remove the regulator with motor attached, for several reasons:
1. It's safer, because the motor gear will keep the spring in place -- use a bench vise to help you ease off the spring tension as you dismount the motor.
2. You can clean the regulator with it off the vehicle -- mine was getting some rust, so I wire brushed it down nice-n-clean. I also removed all the old lube with a screwdriver and aerosol cleaner, as it was dry/hard in spots.
3. You can easily relube the regulator -- can be done on vehicle, but much more difficult to get at and you can't effectively clean the old lube gunk off (trying to will make a mess inside your door as well). The Cardone kit came with some kind of red grease (it looks like bearing grease), which I used on the metal external gear, but I opted for white lithium grease on the internal worm gear(s), regulator joints, spring and plastic channel slides. I already had the lithium grease in a syringe, ready to get in the recesses; the red grease packet had a cut-away "nozzle" end that made for easy enough application on the motor gear.

If you're worried about drilling out the large rivets, don't. You do not need new rivets. To reattach my regulator, I used stainless, truss head (perhaps they're panhead, but a low-profile version if so) hex bolts with stainless, external-toothed lockwashers and stainless nuts. I got these from the local Home Depot and Lowes, so they aren't hard to find.
The bolt head goes on the inside of the door to ensure clearance and there's room for the nuts/washers in the rivet pits on the trim side of the door. I used a 3/8" drive hex bit to tighten them down -- people with really large arms/hands might have difficulty with this, as it's a tight squeeze in there and you have to feel your way around to get the bit engaged on the bolt (there's no room for even a small lighted service mirror; I tried it). A 1/4" drive with a shorter bit might help some, but there's still very little maneuvering room in there.
Sorry, I don't have the exact bolt dimensions handy, as I've misplaced the packaging and the bolts are on the assembled door. I can look for them if anyone needs specs.
Meanwhile, just measure the holes in the door, the thicknesses of the regulator, door and the nut+washer, and get bolts just long enough that the ends are flush with the nut once tightened. You can cut them to length, but stainless IS tougher to machine, so best to get the right length to begin with. You don't have to use stainless, of course. I chose to because I didn't want to take the chance of having to deal with rusted bolts should I need to remove the regulator again. Stainless hardware does cost more, but it was worth it to me. I know, zinc plate... but I couldn't find any the right size and they're not as rustproof as stainless anyway.

The motor itself was a mess. First, I had to clean out all the bits and pieces of bushings. They were in every conceivable nook and cranny of the entire housing. To remove it all, I had to completely disassemble the motor. For the uninitiated, reassembly can be tricky if you aren't careful. You should note the order and orientation of the parts as they're removed so you don't forget something, and you must remember to use the brush retainer to keep them off the rotor during assembly -- otherwise you'll be tempted to push the rotor back in normally, but it won't fully insert (even though it looks like it should fit!). This is not my first electric motor disassembly, not by a long shot. However, everything flew apart upon dismantling this one, so it took me a while to figure out how the brushes were held in place -- it's done with a plastic shaft sleeve (one which I had carelessly placed away from my work area). When you push the motor assembly back into the gear housing, the worm shaft catches on a rim, which in turn pushes the sleeve down the shaft and off the brushes, freeing them. Whatever you do, do not lose or damage this retaining sleeve! Because the brushes are completely covered by the motor casing during reattachment to the gear housing, it is impossible to get any tools in there to manually hold the brushes, and you'll be hard pressed to find a suitable replacement, even from a plastic supply house (e.g., a tube to cut one from).

My motor has been working flawlessly for months with the Cardone kit, after the aforementioned mod, which shouldn't have been necessary. The window is faster/smoother than the passenger side, so I may refurb that one soon for good measure, even though it's been used far less than the driver's side.

Good luck!
Good overall description and cautions. However I have read now at least 3 other "how to's" including a step by step with pics over on the supercoupe perf site which just above me there is already a link to. I would like to clear up one detail though.

About grease. Greases are loosely "color coded". White grease as far as I can tell is always lithium based. It is also the lightest of greases. Next in viscosity and wearability (as in lasts longer under harsher conditions and usage) is your grey and silver colored grease. It is a little thicker also. Finally your "severe duty grease" which tends to be more resistant to "wearing out" under use and stays "grease" longer and keeping lubricating properties and all those good grease things, is a grease that is generally colored... "Red". So you opted away from the more expensive and basically much more durable grease for the lightest grease.

I took 3 years of auto mechanics in 71 - 74 and have worked as an aircraft mech since then and have hung around shops all my life. White grease is universally nicknamed "assembly grease" or "assembly lube" because of it's light nature with great lube abilities it is great for assembling 4 stroke engines from bikes through cars and trucks with lots of white grease. It protects the engine on initial startup and then dissolves away quickly into the oil which is what one actually wants when the engine starts. You don't want a silver grease hanging on and continuing to over lubricate as it could interfere with rings setting in initially and worse cause the walls and rings to "glaze" and then they will virtually never set. It goes without saying you deffo don't want red grease as assembly lube. But... In an application where you don't want to tear something apart for a long time. Plus at the contact points there is decent concentrated pressure. Then red grease is excellent. Kudos to Cardone for including it in their kit! Classy.

Myself? I have all 3 greases. Plus now all colors are available in a spray can with a straw! I found them at Autozone. Though to pack a window gear I would just use a small tube and squirt in liberal amounts. The supercoupe site showed using nice neat little applications of the grease. Another pro mech online on youtube actually shows a rebuild of the little pucks and then greasing. I like his way. He drenched the gears in too uch grease, then put the cover on which squirted out like toothpaste then wiped off the excess. That's how you grease the window motor gear assembly. Not the time to get overly "neat" or "chinzy" in your lubrication. Think about how many things in and on your cars and even home receive too little lube and re-lubing and suffer greatly decreased service life's simply due to not lubing every so often. Every time I buy a used car no matter how "nice" condition it seems I go front to back lubing everything I can lubricate with various appropriate lubricants and have enjoyed great results and also longevity with this philosophy.

Anyways great thread and thanks for all the info everyone.
NeoRocket is offline  
post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-23-2019, 02:08 PM
5th Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoRocket View Post
White grease as far as I can tell is always lithium based. It is also the lightest of greases. Next in viscosity and wearability (as in lasts longer under harsher conditions and usage) is your grey and silver colored grease. It is a little thicker also. Finally your "severe duty grease" which tends to be more resistant to "wearing out" under use and stays "grease" longer and keeping lubricating properties and all those good grease things, is a grease that is generally colored... "Red". So you opted away from the more expensive and basically much more durable grease for the lightest grease.
Holy necropost. This must set some kind of record on here.

As it's been EIGHT AND A HALF YEARS since I did that particular job, I'm struggling to remember why I did what I did. I seem to recall Cardone didn't spec the grease or application of same. I know from experience that not all "red" bearing greases are compatible with plastics, so, not wanting to risk ruining the rather difficult and time-consuming job I just invested all that energy and scraped up fingers in, I opted to play it safe and use what I knew to be a plastic-compatible product (not auto store white grease, btw, it's high-quality stuff from my electronics service shop; it does dry out, though... after a few decades).

I could have used black moly, synthetic, silicone, etc. I maybe/probably had all those and more on hand 8.5 years ago, so who knows, maybe I wrote them all down on pieces of paper and picked the winner from a hat.

Since I'm here, I'll add my long-term results and say that my door windows are still working smoothly 8.5 years later, despite the white lube.

I'll also add that color does not necessarily correlate to type, price, quality or durability.
I have used white and off-white greases that are not lithium-based (i.e., don't use lithium soap as the thickener). Some were synthetic with colorant (if you want to call white a "color") added purely for the sake of visibility. There are also some food-grade lubes that are white, including synthetics, aluminum, and calcium-based. I wouldn't use white lithium grease in food related applications.

I've used red grease that is lightweight and not meant to take high pressure or heat like automotive wheel bearing grease.

I've used high-end red bearing greases that were much cheaper than high-end white lithium greases (per unit volume). Factors affecting price, quality and durability include brand, additives, etc.

Basically, it's a good idea to read the label to know what product you're using, regardless of color. Some have additives that aren't appropriate (or needed) for some applications.

As for the stuff found at most auto parts stores, yes, white is typically lithium and red is typically bearing grease. This will blow your mind: RED LITHIUM grease

Last edited by Torque; 02-23-2019 at 02:18 PM.
Torque is offline  
post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 03:40 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 2
Yes that color sorting is definitely "loose" at best and of course read the labels. Glad your fix worked. I just replaced my driver side with a cardone unit and am happy with it. The passenger side I just tore apart and put the 3 little nylon mini hokey pucks in and packed it with, get this, wheel bearing grease. Works great and is silent and smooth. Now... Just saw the temp gauge working great yet the fan does not turn on. The system for a 95 heat auto turn of for the fan is ridiculously complicated. Chiltons and Haynes is worthless and My Ford Service Manual and Electrical Service Manual both refer me to "1995 Ford Powertrain Control Emissions Diagnosis Service Manual" and I was like... Seriously? Whew. Found a few fairly reasonably priced on the net... But... Dayum. I shoulda studied neurosurgery. Much simpler than troubleshooting the intricate complex of interconnections between the various relay modules under the T Bird hood just to get the damn fan turned on.
NeoRocket is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome