1995/1997 instrument cluster - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 05:30 AM Thread Starter
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1995/1997 instrument cluster

Does anyone know if a 95 cluster would plug into a 97 tbird?
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 06:36 AM
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No. It's been done but rewiring needs to be taken care of. Do a search, you will be able to find what you're looking for.

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It's not a 97 Sport, it just looks like one!

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 12:27 PM
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97 cluster is superior to that of the prior ones as well.

Larger, easier to read gauges. Odometer gears don't break. Yeah, you lose the fake oil pressure gauge, but you can easily install an aftermarket one in an afternoon and have a real gauge.

Also, SHO 150mph speedo and 8K tach.

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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
97 cluster is superior to that of the prior ones as well.

Larger, easier to read gauges. Odometer gears don't break. Yeah, you lose the fake oil pressure gauge, but you can easily install an aftermarket one in an afternoon and have a real gauge.

Also, SHO 150mph speedo and 8K tach.
Care to take a ruler to the 96 vs 97 speedo and tach? I have, the only gauges larger on the Taurus cluster are the fuel/temp ones, speedo is about the same albeit oblonged (slightly wider but also shorter on the 97) and the tach is puny. That 8K SHO tach? It’s neat, with a voodoo 5.2 swap and of course a manual transmission.

Also if you source those sho gauges from a 96 you might not want to brag about the odo gears not breaking. The original worm gear material was very brittle and every one I’ve pulled out of a 96 SHO(which is the most common year) needed a rebuild.

I’ve used both and wired my 94 for both, so it’s not bias either!



94-96 is superior in packaging, it’s simply more information in a similar footprint. On the subject of mods to it the SC 145 speedometer plugs and plays, the illumination note is the same green like the rest of the gauges/interior and the dummy lights aren’t randomly shuffled around like they are with the SHO gauges. The oil pressure gauge can be converted to fully functional with a simple piece of bus wire soldered across the resistor and a new sending unit swapped in place of the old one on the engine. No need for an unattractive, expensive and troublesome aftermarket gauge unless you absolutely need the numbers with it(what the needle is doing is more useful than what it’s pointing at)
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 09:42 AM
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I know, I'm weird. I just like the 97 cluster better.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 10:25 AM
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I like the 97 better too. It has a light for when the cruise control is engaged.

Al
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 08:02 PM
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I like the 97 better too. It has a light for when the cruise control is engaged.

Al
I've never noticed, that's pretty cool.

I just found out yesterday that my CC works again, after replacing the airbag frame and controls. And airbag...

Where is it?

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 09:15 PM
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The 97 cluster in a way looks more modern. But now a days they both obviously look dated. When I was searching for my first MN12, I looked specifically for a 96 due to the newer body design, and the earlier (original) gauge cluster.
Both the clusters are nice in their own way, but IMO the original cluster is much more driver oriented and informative.

Unrelated.... Still on the lookout for a super coupe 140mph speedo for my cougar
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 09:56 PM
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BTW, this is a very old mod; the hard part is getting faces for the mod.

http://www.sccoa.com/faq/SpeedometerConversions.pdf

This also shows how to disassemble the speedo to change the bad gears out.

The blue one on page 9 is the one you'll find in pieces.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenz View Post
The 97 cluster in a way looks more modern. But now a days they both obviously look dated. When I was searching for my first MN12, I looked specifically for a 96 due to the newer body design, and the earlier (original) gauge cluster.
Both the clusters are nice in their own way, but IMO the original cluster is much more driver oriented and informative.

Unrelated.... Still on the lookout for a super coupe 140mph speedo for my cougar
I totally agree, 97 looks more modern, but by the 2001 definition of modern That was both my rationale for doing the unheard of converting of a 94 to it(I still believe I’m the first on that one!) and ultimately converting back to the original. Do I want dated and designed for the MN12 from the start? Or dated and originally designed for the ugliest Taurus?

SHO gauges are (were?)way easier to find, but once I acquired the SC speedo that 97 cluster was off like a prom dress.

-Matt
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 07:10 AM
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I've never noticed, that's pretty cool.

I just found out yesterday that my CC works again, after replacing the airbag frame and controls. And airbag...

Where is it?
The CC light is in the bottom right of the cluster, IIRC.

Al

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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
BTW, this is a very old mod; the hard part is getting faces for the mod.
Is Scott still making them? I'm out of touch with the scene here.

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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 09:09 AM
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Scott hasn't made them in years.

Good to see you around.

Too bad your pic with Ron Jeremy is long gone, lol.

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Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
BTW, this is a very old mod; the hard part is getting faces for the mod.

http://www.sccoa.com/faq/SpeedometerConversions.pdf

This also shows how to disassemble the speedo to change the bad gears out.

The blue one on page 9 is the one you'll find in pieces.
Thank you for that! I need to take apart my speedo to fix the tachometer (it doesn't work). I'm guessing the gear doesn't work (broken)? I have a spare cluster from another '97 I pulled from a yard not too long ago. I'll see if it works. If it does, I'll adjust the mileage to match that of mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
I totally agree, 97 looks more modern, but by the 2001 definition of modern That was both my rationale for doing the unheard of converting of a 94 to it(I still believe I’m the first on that one!) and ultimately converting back to the original. Do I want dated and designed for the MN12 from the start? Or dated and originally designed for the ugliest Taurus?

SHO gauges are (were?)way easier to find, but once I acquired the SC speedo that 97 cluster was off like a prom dress.
Why are the SC gauges better than the SHO gauges?

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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 06:16 PM
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IIRC, the 140mph speedo, and a boost gauge.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 10:54 PM
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Scott hasn't made them in years.

I got the last set he made.
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2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 10:58 PM
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Thank you for that! I need to take apart my speedo to fix the tachometer (it doesn't work). I'm guessing the gear doesn't work (broken)? I have a spare cluster from another '97 I pulled from a yard not too long ago. I'll see if it works. If it does, I'll adjust the mileage to match that of mine.



Why are the SC gauges better than the SHO gauges?
Either or...

89-95 SC gauges give you the 140mph speedo.

the SHO gauges give you an 8k tach and 150mph speedo.
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2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 11:17 PM
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Either or...

89-95 SC gauges give you the 140mph speedo.

the SHO gauges give you an 8k tach and 150mph speedo.
How much RPM do we need? It's been so long that I've gotten behind the wheel of mine that I don't remember what the stock '97 faces look like, lol.
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-07-2019, 01:26 AM
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If you're hitting 8k, you are making more than your engine unhappy, lol.

GM had mods done to his to keep the fluid from centrifugally draining out of the clutches over 7k, IIRC.

This is a real problem, as they loosen with increasing rpm; I've seen it, thru stupidity I'm not going to discuss, lol.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 12:30 PM
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If you're hitting 8k RPM, then you've got some real power down at the wheels. While I plan on making more power than stock, I don't think I'll be making 8k RPM power. Maybe a DOHC motor and other bolt ons. For sure will have at least a complete PI top end and other bolt ons.

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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 12:32 PM
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How much RPM do we need? It's been so long that I've gotten behind the wheel of mine that I don't remember what the stock '97 faces look like, lol.
I need ALL the RPM's!

My old motor was a PI swapped NPI motor, has a Mark VIII TC, Jmod, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft. I'd regularly get it to 6000 rpm winding it out on onramps or when passing a pokey old guy on a two lane blacktop (disable OD, when oncoming traffic is clear, punch it, car grabs second with a chirp, and I'm doing 80 by the time I'm next to their window).

New motor is full PI, I plan on doing WOT shifts at 6500.

Do I "need" an 8k tach? Not yet. If I ever get the boss block swap with 323 cubes and forged internals, maybe 7500 might be seen.

For what it's worth, 8K on the SHO cluster is way past redline anyway. It was in the car when I bought it, I just like it. It does have the marked redline higher up than the MN-12 gauges.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
Scott hasn't made them in years.



Good to see you around.



Too bad your pic with Ron Jeremy is long gone, lol.



Thanks. It's around...FB_IMG_1557337540563.jpg

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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
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I need ALL the RPM's!

My old motor was a PI swapped NPI motor, has a Mark VIII TC, Jmod, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft. I'd regularly get it to 6000 rpm winding it out on onramps or when passing a pokey old guy on a two lane blacktop (disable OD, when oncoming traffic is clear, punch it, car grabs second with a chirp, and I'm doing 80 by the time I'm next to their window).

New motor is full PI, I plan on doing WOT shifts at 6500.

Do I "need" an 8k tach? Not yet. If I ever get the boss block swap with 323 cubes and forged internals, maybe 7500 might be seen.

For what it's worth, 8K on the SHO cluster is way past redline anyway. It was in the car when I bought it, I just like it. It does have the marked redline higher up than the MN-12 gauges.
The PI intake manifold can’t physically supply the amount of airflow it will take to breathe at 6500rpm. You can get it there if you want but you’ll just be making noise, not speed. A stroker bottom end isn’t going to help you in the rev department either.

The redline on the stock SHO tach face(not scott’s Faces) is 7K RPM for the record. The 94-96 tachometer doesn’t have the number 7 printed but it’s marked to 7k, so you’re not gaining much information, and having that one extra number is basically about as useful to you as a 200mph speedometer. Resolution is key IF you’re depending on the tachometer for shifts(ie manual trans or valve body) and neither factory tach is that accurate anyway, but between the two, keeping in mind my 4V will keep making power up to ~6800(not that I shift there), I still choose the 94-96 tach simply because it’s that much easier to read from a glance than the 1/3 smaller 97/SHO tach with their more cluttered together hash marks.

To each their own, there are pros and cons to both clusters. If you want the best functioning setup you make an aftermarket cluster like maddmartigan.
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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 08:29 AM
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The PI intake manifold can’t physically supply the amount of airflow it will take to breathe at 6500rpm. You can get it there if you want but you’ll just be making noise, not speed. A stroker bottom end isn’t going to help you in the rev department either.

The redline on the stock SHO tach face(not scott’s Faces) is 7K RPM for the record. The 94-96 tachometer doesn’t have the number 7 printed but it’s marked to 7k, so you’re not gaining much information, and having that one extra number is basically about as useful to you as a 200mph speedometer. Resolution is key IF you’re depending on the tachometer for shifts(ie manual trans or valve body) and neither factory tach is that accurate anyway, but between the two, keeping in mind my 4V will keep making power up to ~6800(not that I shift there), I still choose the 94-96 tach simply because it’s that much easier to read from a glance than the 1/3 smaller 97/SHO tach with their more cluttered together hash marks.

To each their own, there are pros and cons to both clusters. If you want the best functioning setup you make an aftermarket cluster like maddmartigan.
Like I said, it was in the car when I bought it. I like the look, see no reason to change.

IF I ever get the boss crate shortblock (which is mostly square with a 3.7" bore and 3.75" stroke) it'll have a trick flow top end on it to feed it fuel and air at the upper RPM's. Square engines LOVE rpm, and the boss crate shortblock has been proven to make 460+hp with Trick Flow 2v upper end parts, and have a good flat torque curve throughout the rev range. Do I "need" that power? Nope. But it'll be fun.

I am probably going to end up replacing my PI intake eventually as I think it may have been weeping a little, and I know I don't have any real choices (the Typhoon is basically a metal version of the PI, I can get another PI, or I can get one of two Trick Flow units, both of which push the powerband up due to how they flow, and both of which cost a lot). My car right now again doesn't "need" an 8k tach, none of our cars really "needs" a 140+ speedo either, but we still like them, don't we?

Eventually I'll be dropping a manual in, have the pedals, have lots of supporting parts, just need a transmission, flywheel, clutch, and that'll happen eventually.

Once I have the engine in the car (this coming month I hope!), it will get dyno tuned for the final part of the tune process, so I'll post up numbers once it's together.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 09:15 AM
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Thanks. It's around...Attachment 34257

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There's a guy that frequents a local bar that looks like Ron Jeremy. To the point that he says "just call me Ron, everyone else calls me Ron", lol!

Al
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97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 78k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 CVPI- Brenda's car - 71k miles
Previous Fords:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years, 220k miles
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years, 206k miles
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