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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-22-2018, 02:46 AM Thread Starter
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Shocks for the Daily Driver

What is it? It's a 2000 Honda Accord v6 with 324k miles on the clock.

What's the history? I got it lowered back in 2009-ish with Eibach ProKit springs, Sway Bars - 27mm solid up front, 23mm solid rear, and set down on some KYB GR-2 shocks.

Fast forward to today: In addition to the year when I did that, it's also been somewhere between 150k miles - 185k miles since I put those parts on. The front end needs some work, namely ball joints, UCAs, and LCAs. I already have all that except for the ball joints which I plan on getting anyway. For good measure, I've also purchased end links and new sway bar bushings all around.

The first question: Should I also get shocks in addition to what I've already gotten? Despite them not showing signs of being blown, they do have that mileage on them. Would it be best that I get the shocks anyway?

The second question: If I do get the shocks, where can I get some Tokico Blues for the front that I've been looking for? I've been set on getting those for some reason.

The third question: What other options are available to me that will do well in a lowered setup that won't break the bank at the same time?

In reference to my question two above, the rear Tokico shocks seem to be fairly straight forward and Amazon has them. However, the front shocks leave me questioning the true PN of the Tokico shocks. Amazon has them listed as one PN, but other sites give the front Tokico shocks a different PN. Additionally, some sites give the front left and front right two different PNs entirely! I'd like to know if anyone here can help me out and at least point me in the right direction.

Also, this isn't helping with my quest to get my Bird back on the road. For now though, the daily will have to take priority...

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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-22-2018, 03:56 PM
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Man, there are all kinds of good shocks for that car; I'm Jelly.

I'd buy the adjustable koni sports; you won't need another pair for years, if ever.

And they're designed for lowering springs.

There are bilsteins, and several others available.



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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 02:01 AM Thread Starter
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Yea, but I don't want to spend that much. Like, I mean, I know I have to spend it but I don't want to spend so much that I'm delaying my T-Bird suspension project.

Amazon has Tokico Blues for rear for about $50 and....if I can find the correct PN....the fronts for about $60.

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 10:55 AM
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My question would be do you want to spill out for hi-end shocks for the car that may last longer than the car has left? I realize Hondas are very solid, but at 300k+ I'd just be looking to keep it on the road and go with some lower-end units and call it a day. The Tokico Blues seem reasonable at the ~$50-60 price point but I wouldn't splurge for the Koni's at ~$155 per. That's just my $0.02.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
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^^ This....sorta.

I need higher end shocks so that I don't blow them out since I am lowered 1.5". If I were to cheap out and get OEM replacements, say with like Monroe or Gabriel shocks, I'd probably be replacing those somewhat soonish because they wouldn't be able to handle the drop. I don't want to go with super high end because like you said, it's got 300k+ on the clock and I just want it to be around for DD purposes at this point. The Tokicos are my first choice and the price point they're offered at is fairly reasonable. I am open to other brands so long as they're sub $100/ea and can also handle the drop. In terms of the Tokicos, I just can't seem to find the front end shocks and those are what I need first since it's my front end that needs most of the work done.

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 12:14 PM
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I'd say if it ain't broke - don't fix it. If they aren't obviously trashed just leave them be and replace only what needs to be replaced. Then you have extra t-bird cash. Or even swap it back up to stock height, sell the springs and profit.

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 12:23 PM Thread Starter
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Swap back to stock = buying new springs = more cost / cost as much as getting a ~$125 - $150/ea shock.

I know it's a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" type thing, but at the same time I'm also riding on at least 150k miles on the existing shocks. I'm sure they're pretty worn. Part of why I'm wanting to replace them. But at the same time, like you said, they ain't broke so I don't want to replace them on that premise. My thing is, "while I'm there".

The 6GA uses a coil over shock design on all 4 corners so I'll need to get these guys on a spring compressor...

'97 Bird, "Pearl": L/R 2.5in Magnaflow Hi-Flow CATs | PI Intake & PI Cams | Suspension Rebuild

'13 Taurus, "The Bull": 3.5L Goodness

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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jco1385 View Post
I'd say if it ain't broke - don't fix it. If they aren't obviously trashed just leave them be and replace only what needs to be replaced. Then you have extra t-bird cash. Or even swap it back up to stock height, sell the springs and profit.
1) There are so many parts for this gen Honda (inc eBay specials) that I doubt he'll get much for dropped springs with 185K mi on them.
2) Unless the car is unsafe (ex: blown/missing front bushings), I wouldn't put more money into this chassis as well but that's just me. That includes another $100 worth of struts if the stock ones can be pushed down and do pop back up. Maybe buy them from rockauto w/ Paypal free return shipping option (or Amazon prime) and have them ready just in case you need them?

Even if the engine is 'rock solid' and the suspension gets an overhaul, something else might get to the point where you might need to replace/rebuild/overhaul something that drives you crazy (ex: maybe the driver seat gets to an uncomfortable level of sag). A 300K mi car is just screaming to be a death by a million cuts.

I got rid of my Accord @ 220K mi (or thereabouts) because even though the car still ran just fine (suspension redone at ~150K mi and oil pump went out around there as well), it had gotten to the point where I was having to put $100/mo into the car and that just got annoying.

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 01:23 PM
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I'm not at all familiar with the aftermarket on those cars, but there are a billion of them out there. Surely someone would buy the springs or even swap some stockers for them. I'm all about some 'while I'm there' stuff but you have to draw the line somewhere. How much longer do you plan to keep the car, and what further maintenance is required to get it past 400k? If it were me, I'd replace what is necessary and worry about anything else if the need arises and you plan to keep the car.

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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I plan on keeping the car for at least another two years, possibly longer. In those two years, I'm pretty sure I'll reach 400k. What BIG maintenance will I need at 400k? Timing belt. Timing belt will also require water pump. It's a job I can do myself in an afternoon and will cost me about $150 in parts.

Outside of oil changes, ATF changes, and brake changes (pads + discs), I won't have any other big maintenance costs outside of the suspension I'm doing now. and the timing belt. Of course, there will be things that break on me, like my alternator, starter, and PS pump that failed on me recently, but those have been covered under parts store warranty. I guess there's my car battery too that I'll have to be buying sometime in the next year or two as it already is 5 years old.

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jco1385 View Post
I'm not at all familiar with the aftermarket on those cars, but there are a billion of them out there. Surely someone would buy the springs or even swap some stockers for them. I'm all about some 'while I'm there' stuff but you have to draw the line somewhere. How much longer do you plan to keep the car, and what further maintenance is required to get it past 400k? If it were me, I'd replace what is necessary and worry about anything else if the need arises and you plan to keep the car.
There being a billion of them out there is what prevents the profitability, they’re not like our aftermarket where some of us would probably a premium for a pair of used 10 year old Koni inserts with 185k on them. With such an abundant source for aftermarket parts older Honda’s have, the used pool is high as well and prices are appropriately low to move them.

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 03:56 PM
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My alternator - the last original piece on the engine - lasted 218,000 miles! I just replaced that. So, you're looking at about 200K out of an alternator.

400k~!? God, who knows ... ? probably transmission rebuild. Replace the Torque converter. Of course, I wouldn't mess with that until the trans starts to show signs of failure.

My airbag sensor control module recently went out. I replaced it with NOS for a pretty price. I'd recommend sourcing a newer one from the bone yard and stashing it for later.

That's all I can think of for now...

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
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Well after thinking about it some more, I'm thinking of holding off some on shocks for the daily for the time being. As @jco1385 stated, "if it aint broke, don't fix it" and it ain't broke. My existing shocks aren't busted right now so I'm just going to do what I need to do and replace the parts that for sure need replacing. If I got to get in there later, I will. And it's looking like I'm going to go with Megan Racing units when that time comes. Getting these parts....that aren't broke....just delays my T-Bird, and I don't want to do that.

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 06:38 PM
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I plan on keeping the car for at least another two years, possibly longer. In those two years, I'm pretty sure I'll reach 400k. What BIG maintenance will I need at 400k? Timing belt. Timing belt will also require water pump. It's a job I can do myself in an afternoon and will cost me about $150 in parts.

Outside of oil changes, ATF changes, and brake changes (pads + discs), I won't have any other big maintenance costs outside of the suspension I'm doing now. and the timing belt. Of course, there will be things that break on me, like my alternator, starter, and PS pump that failed on me recently, but those have been covered under parts store warranty. I guess there's my car battery too that I'll have to be buying sometime in the next year or two as it already is 5 years old.
Wait, how old is the automatic transmission in this Accord and was it every replaced? IIRC, that was a weak link in that generation of Honda... so much so that they extended their warranties on V6 accords to 100K mi IIRC.
Found it.
https://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=39434

Has it been replaced yet?
Since it sounds like you are planning to do the suspension labor yourself (and have the time), and are already planning on replacing all the bushings anyway, I'm more ambivalent about whether you go with the tokicos or reuse the existing ones. If you insisted on paying someone to do the work, i'd a) not do the work to begin with or b) if you definitely are going to do the suspension workI'd lean towards swapping struts just to avoid having to potentially repeat the labor work.

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PS. Didn't we have a similar thread about this Accord a few months ago when you were deciding whether or not to upgrade cars or keep the existing ones running? I seem to recall that most of us advised against dumping more money into this high mileage vehicle than was necessary.

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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 11:10 AM Thread Starter
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Wait, how old is the automatic transmission in this Accord and was it every replaced? IIRC, that was a weak link in that generation of Honda... so much so that they extended their warranties on V6 accords to 100K mi IIRC.
Found it.
https://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=39434

Has it been replaced yet?
Since it sounds like you are planning to do the suspension labor yourself (and have the time), and are already planning on replacing all the bushings anyway, I'm more ambivalent about whether you go with the tokicos or reuse the existing ones. If you insisted on paying someone to do the work, i'd a) not do the work to begin with or b) if you definitely are going to do the suspension workI'd lean towards swapping struts just to avoid having to potentially repeat the labor work.

-g
The extended Honda warranty went from 3yrs / 36,000 miles to 7yrs / 100,000 miles. Now at 18yrs and 325k miles, that warranty doesn't apply to me any more. But yes, that did in fact happen because of the weak 4AT in the 6GA and 7GA accords (not so much on the 7GA, but it still happened).

Has it been replaced? Under 11yrs and 216k miles of my ownership, it has been replaced twice. The first time at 127k miles and the second time at 185k miles. The 185k mile replacement happened back in somewhere around 2010 or 2011 (I'd have to look at my records to give you a more exact date).

There are preventative maintenance that can be done to prolong the life of the transmission on the 6GA, namely replacing the ATF with Honda DW-1 ATF every 15k - 20k miles (~12qts of ATF) or at every oil change replace just 3qts of ATF. The other big thing to do is to add an external magnetic filter with by-pass valve and replace the filter every 3rd oil change (15k miles). The last thing to do is to add an external ATF cooler. I replace the ATF and filter on this schedule. I've yet to add an external ATF cooler though.

The thing that is commonly said about this transmission on the Accord forums I'm on is not "if" we replace the transmission, but rather, "when" we replace the transmission. Despite the above preventative maintenance, all it does is prolong the life of the transmission. Thankfully, my Accord's transmission has been running great since the last replacement at 185k. It still shifts smooth and doesn't slip gears, so I'm happy about that.

As for the actual work itself, I was going to do the work myself, save for the swapping of the struts as that requires a spring compressor that I don't have. So that bit I'd have to take them down to a shop so it can be done for me.

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PS. Didn't we have a similar thread about this Accord a few months ago when you were deciding whether or not to upgrade cars or keep the existing ones running? I seem to recall that most of us advised against dumping more money into this high mileage vehicle than was necessary.
We can look it up, but yes, a conversation was had about this very same Accord a few months ago. My position on the car has changed and I'll keep it as long as I need to - or can - keep it. Basically, unless I know I'm in a position where I know I can comfortably afford a new car payment of $400 - $500 a month for a truck, I'll keep this Accord until the wheels fall off....and put them back on and keep driving it! The only reasons why I would move on from my Accord would be if I had electrical issues or if I was involved in a traffic collision that I couldn't fix (read, frame damage or rear quarter panel damage).

In 2017 I knew that 2018 was going to be a high cost year in terms of maintenance outside of the standard oil change and ATF change for my Accord relative to the last couple of years. In 2018, I've already purchased new tires, power steering pump and PS fluid, replaced one COP, and all the suspension stuff I've already purchased. I still need to purchase front lower ball joints for my suspension project with the Accord as those are shot and I know I'll be needing to replace my pads and rotors as well sometime in the fall or winter. The shocks I that I asked about initially was, like I said, one of those "While I'm there" type things to take care of. I'm not even counting the alternator and starter in my costs that were covered for me under lifetime warranty parts store replacement.

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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 11:41 AM
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My airbag sensor control module recently went out. I replaced it with NOS for a pretty price. I'd recommend sourcing a newer one from the bone yard and stashing it for later.
I’ve only ever heard of those failing after deployment. If that goes randomly kaput that gives me the perfect excuse to rip out the rest of the airbag related dead weight

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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 12:25 PM
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LOL. Yea it was beeping when you turned the key to the accessory position. Rob said it had failed. So I went by his word and replaced it.

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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 02:37 PM
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So your current (knock on wood) transmission has 135K. You, me, and the rest of the internet acknowledges that this gen AT can be fragile and you accept that its a matter of time before you'll need trans #4.

I'm all for driving cars into the ground but ARE YOU SURE YOU want to invest the time/money to swap in all the "ball joints, UCAs, and LCAs"?
UCAs and LCAs seems to be $30/each so we are talking about $120-200 worth of stuff plus install time. Unless the ball joints are blown and we are talking about a safety issue, I'd be inclined to leave them alone. Of course, if the parts will all be warranty replacements (gotta love the lifetime warranties), then we are just talking about your labor time. After all, it's a 300K mi DD.

-g
PS. If you do go the route of replacing your struts, I've found some places where you can bring the old strut assembly and the new shocks and for a few bucks they'll quickly swap them using their wall mount spring compressor. Or, you can just rent the mcpherson strut clamp tool and loosen them yourself. Assembly can be done by using the weight of the car to compress the spring enough to get the top nut on.

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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
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So your current (knock on wood) transmission has 135K. You, me, and the rest of the internet acknowledges that this gen AT can be fragile and you accept that its a matter of time before you'll need trans #4.

I'm all for driving cars into the ground but ARE YOU SURE YOU want to invest the time/money to swap in all the "ball joints, UCAs, and LCAs"?
UCAs and LCAs seems to be $30/each so we are talking about $120-200 worth of stuff plus install time. Unless the ball joints are blown and we are talking about a safety issue, I'd be inclined to leave them alone. Of course, if the parts will all be warranty replacements (gotta love the lifetime warranties), then we are just talking about your labor time. After all, it's a 300K mi DD.

-g
PS. If you do go the route of replacing your struts, I've found some places where you can bring the old strut assembly and the new shocks and for a few bucks they'll quickly swap them using their wall mount spring compressor. Or, you can just rent the mcpherson strut clamp tool and loosen them yourself. Assembly can be done by using the weight of the car to compress the spring enough to get the top nut on.
Yes I'm sure. Until I'm spending at least $200/mo on maintenance / fixing things that suddenly break, I'm all for it. If the transmission goes out, I'm willing to spend another $2,000 to have the transmission replaced again as well. If the engine (original to the car) suddenly takes a dump on me, I know I can install a replacement myself for around $700 or less; timing belt, water pump, new seals, etc. and all that included in that $700 or less price tag. I'm willing to spend that and the time associated with that. Why? Because it's still cheaper than a car payment when I know I'm not ready for a car payment. Even if it's a used car, I don't want to spend it. I don't want to spend money on car payments until, like I said earlier, I know I can comfortably take on car payments on a vehicle I want.

A used car would be even worse than keeping my current car because then I'm getting into someone else's problems that they dumped on me on top of car payments (assuming I can't buy the vehicle outright). The only exception to this would be if the used car I'm purchasing is a certified pre-owned vehicle that is still covered under manufacturer warranty.

2. Yes, there are a few shops in my area that would do that disassembly and reassembly of the strut and spring.

'97 Bird, "Pearl": L/R 2.5in Magnaflow Hi-Flow CATs | PI Intake & PI Cams | Suspension Rebuild

'13 Taurus, "The Bull": 3.5L Goodness

'00 2dr v6 Accord, "Dirty Girl": Magnaflow Hi-Flow CAT | Greddy SP2 CAT-Back | Eibach ProKit springs | Eibach F/R Sway Bars | KYB-GR2 struts
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