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post #1 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-26-2018, 11:46 PM Thread Starter
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What Are Your Stocks In?

First, I want to state that I don't want to get into your financial business. I just want to know your thoughts on specific companies you are considering to buy and avoiding as well as companies that you currently hold stock in.

I recently got into stocks and did quite well with one of my first picks, Tilray (TLRY). This gave me the itch to be a (almost) day trader. I know it's bad, but having extra cash is awesome, lol.

For those of you have stocks, what are you guys in? Are any of you day traders? Are any of you long term holders of your shares? Do any of you do both (have shares to hold for the long term and other shares that are short term)?

Ideally, I'd like to do the "get rich quick" scheme and find another TLRY type stock to buy. What stocks / companies are out there that is high / good speculation on that?

Are there any penny stocks out there that in the near future 25% speculated growth (or larger of course) is possible where their current share price around (or less) $2.50/share. That's what I'm looking for.

I'm also looking at companies where they're good for the long term. I recently bought GE shares when I heard they got a new CEO. So far, they're basically flat, but I'm hoping for growth in the mid to long term. I bought Ford shares a little while ago, but I've lost 30% since buying that. I missed out on AMD stocks when they were at $9/share. Their recent increase to $32/share was awesome and I missed that boat. That boat is coming back to dock though, lol.

Anyway, I'm interested in hearing what you guys are into and your guys' current sentiment about any company for both the short and long term future.

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post #2 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-27-2018, 12:11 AM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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The market is now controlled by people who can raise and fall them at will, it's not a free market.

I'd put 90% of my cash into money equivalents, for at least the next year.

I made 20k on the drop in 2008, with my play account.

I'd maintain my wealth until next year, and see how it goes.

The 2008 crash was on purpose; President Obama was left picking up the pieces from 2 wars, with
NO funding from congress. (their terms, not mine)

That's how we got to 22 Trillion Defecit.

(that's from a rap song, not my hate.)

I can say some things from Certainty: There will be no tax cuts for the middle class, we barely exist.

The "pre-existing conditions", "medicare for all" coming from the Repubs are all Lies, and unless you have shit for brains, it should be obvious.

I believe in Truth, Justice, and the American Way. That seems lost on our current government.

Eisenhower told us how the Military Industrial Complex would warp our society, but our current philosophy is closer to Mein Kamph.

SpaceX is the only company outside that MIC.

It's easier to define policy by wackos with bombs; gotta keep the peeps in line, or we'll send someone to blow you up.

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What the Fuck have we become as Americans?

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post #3 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-27-2018, 08:21 AM
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I Agree with Grog.

I have Fed EX, ATT, Comcast, Nokia, Metropolitan LIfe INs Co.

The key is buy low sell high, all five are held with my two brothers and sister, so nothing is getting done. Fuck.

We have lost 40k of stock value since the topping out 1/16/18.

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post #4 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-27-2018, 10:22 AM
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I stick with mutual funds instead of individual stocks, which make me too nervous. If I was going to buy an individual stock, I would gamble a small amount on one of those new weed stocks and just hold it. Could be a windfall, but if it isn't, at least you could say your money went up in smoke, lol!

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post #5 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-27-2018, 11:26 AM
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My opinion is the only way buying stocks makes sense is to invest in a solid company and hold it for the long-term. Day-trading or even just short-term stuff is plain and simple gambling. Now gambling can be fun, and its exciting when you win, but in order to make a bunch of money at it, you either have to be really lucky, or be willing to bet large amounts of money. If you put say $1000 into a stock, and it increases in value by 25%, or hell even if it increases by 500%, you are now left with a profit of between $250 and $5000. That is nice, but hitting that kind of a jackpot once or twice is not going to change your life or let you retire, and more than likely, it will be significantly offset by all the times the other stocks go down. Now if you bet the farm and put say $200K into one of those stocks, and it increases by 500%, now you have made a change in your life, but then again, if you lose, you lose big-time. If you are going to get into this, my advice would be the same as going to a casino; pick an amount of money that you are willing to lose, and if you win big, do something fun with the money, but if you lose, consider it as the price of the entertainment, but whatever you do, don't make day trading your retirement plan!
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post #6 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-27-2018, 03:29 PM
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Funds are okay but can kill you with front end and back end fees. You really need to watch the fees with funds. I'd stick with low cost index funds. My MetLife account is exclusively in index funds.

I have an extremely diversified 401K portfolio in a separate self-directed brokerage account. I've had my share of winners and losers. I've taken a beating on Under Armour with Kevin Plank's shenanigans.

I'm still a believer in China. I have Alibaba (BABA) and once this trade war nonsense works itself out I expect BABA to be back on top again in the next two to three years. They are the Amazon, and Ebay of China rolled up into one. Their growth potential is on par with Amazon or perhaps even better.

I also love the Tech stocks - even though they're down right now. I have NVIDIA (NVDA) , Facebook (FB), NXP Semiconductors, and some Cyprus Semi (CY). Facebook is pissing me off right now but I believe their current troubles are short term and that the long term story for FB remains intact. They have the potential to grow as GOOGLE has. I also have Apple. You can't go wrong with Apple!

Boeing (BA) is another of my winners. I'm currently up about 92% on my BA Holdings.

In communications I have Verizon and AT&T. The Cell tower providers American Tower (AMT) and Crown Castle (CCI) are also winners although I didn't buy them when I should have.

These are a few of my holdings and recommendations. There are literally hundreds of great companies out there; you have to do your homework and choose carefully both the company and your entry price.

There's a wealth of information at seekingalpha.com - Set up a free account there pick the stocks you want to follow and read the analysis articles. Be sure to read through the comments too. There are some very smart people out there who post some great advice in the comments.

I'm also a follower of Jim Cramer at https://www.thestreet.com/

Also look for companies that offer a solid dividend yield. The benefits of compounding dividends can not be overstated.

Another great source for financial info: https://www.marketscreener.com/

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post #7 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r429460 View Post
I Agree with Grog.

I have Fed EX, ATT, Comcast, Nokia, Metropolitan LIfe INs Co.

The key is buy low sell high, all five are held with my two brothers and sister, so nothing is getting done. Fuck.

We have lost 40k of stock value since the topping out 1/16/18.
$40k drop worth of investments is quite a bit of cash! I'd be pretty worried if I were closer to retirement age.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T6Rocket View Post
I stick with mutual funds instead of individual stocks, which make me too nervous. If I was going to buy an individual stock, I would gamble a small amount on one of those new weed stocks and just hold it. Could be a windfall, but if it isn't, at least you could say your money went up in smoke, lol!

Al
TLRY was one of those new weed stocks. Net profit from my lowly purchase two days after their IPO was just shy of of $15k. That money went quick, lol. I reinvested my original investment to other stocks, I took out the profits, set aside some for capital gains taxes, and from there a good deal went to bills and the rest to T-Bird parts . Anyway, TLRY stock has tanked and is too volatile now waving between $95 and $175. Today, it closed at $94.74. I may buy it, but with it being so volatile, I don't think I actually will buy. It's simply too much risk for the potential reward, and I don't have much to begin with right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
My opinion is the only way buying stocks makes sense is to invest in a solid company and hold it for the long-term. Day-trading or even just short-term stuff is plain and simple gambling. Now gambling can be fun, and its exciting when you win, but in order to make a bunch of money at it, you either have to be really lucky, or be willing to bet large amounts of money. If you put say $1000 into a stock, and it increases in value by 25%, or hell even if it increases by 500%, you are now left with a profit of between $250 and $5000. That is nice, but hitting that kind of a jackpot once or twice is not going to change your life or let you retire, and more than likely, it will be significantly offset by all the times the other stocks go down. Now if you bet the farm and put say $200K into one of those stocks, and it increases by 500%, now you have made a change in your life, but then again, if you lose, you lose big-time. If you are going to get into this, my advice would be the same as going to a casino; pick an amount of money that you are willing to lose, and if you win big, do something fun with the money, but if you lose, consider it as the price of the entertainment, but whatever you do, don't make day trading your retirement plan!
I have about $3k to play with right now, and I'm not going to bet the farm on stocks. I want to follow the model that my TLRY stock did for now and hope I get lucky. I'd like to buy stuff cheap....$5 or less, so penny stocks....and hope they go high(er) and sell before that bubble busts. My main goal right now is to simply make profits in order to pay down some unwanted debts, and later put a decent sized down payment on a truck.

That is my immediate (now - 1yrs) goal.

Long term, once I (if I get lucky) have more money to drop, I'll start putting in more and more cash into long term investments. Hopefully find a company that gets bought out by a bigger company, such as Instagram and Facebook or more recently, RedHat and IBM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
Funds are okay but can kill you with front end and back end fees. You really need to watch the fees with funds. I'd stick with low cost index funds. My MetLife account is exclusively in index funds.

I have an extremely diversified 401K portfolio in a separate self-directed brokerage account. I've had my share of winners and losers. I've taken a beating on Under Armour with Kevin Plank's shenanigans.

I'm still a believer in China. I have Alibaba (BABA) and once this trade war nonsense works itself out I expect BABA to be back on top again in the next two to three years. They are the Amazon, and Ebay of China rolled up into one. Their growth potential is on par with Amazon or perhaps even better.

I also love the Tech stocks - even though they're down right now. I have NVIDIA (NVDA) , Facebook (FB), NXP Semiconductors, and some Cyprus Semi (CY). Facebook is pissing me off right now but I believe their current troubles are short term and that the long term story for FB remains intact. They have the potential to grow as GOOGLE has. I also have Apple. You can't go wrong with Apple!

Boeing (BA) is another of my winners. I'm currently up about 92% on my BA Holdings.

In communications I have Verizon and AT&T. The Cell tower providers American Tower (AMT) and Crown Castle (CCI) are also winners although I didn't buy them when I should have.

These are a few of my holdings and recommendations. There are literally hundreds of great companies out there; you have to do your homework and choose carefully both the company and your entry price.

There's a wealth of information at seekingalpha.com - Set up a free account there pick the stocks you want to follow and read the analysis articles. Be sure to read through the comments too. There are some very smart people out there who post some great advice in the comments.

I'm also a follower of Jim Cramer at https://www.thestreet.com/

Also look for companies that offer a solid dividend yield. The benefits of compounding dividends can not be overstated.

Another great source for financial info: https://www.marketscreener.com/
I missed the train on tech stocks. NVIDIA definitely has blown up in value the last year or so. I even missed AMD's jump from $8/share to $32/share in the last couple of months, now it's down back to $18/share. I fully regret not having bought AMD before their stock jumped up in price. But the tech sector seems to be coming down overall at the moment. Microsoft (MSFT) though, seems to be the exception to that. If I have enough before they start bouncing back, I'll jump on whatever I can.

As for articles, I do read seekingalpha as well as Marketplace. There's just so much information out there that I'm not sure what is the best and / or most reliable source for financial news.
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post #8 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 06:51 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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When the market is at an extended high, and there's incipient trouble down the line, I put everything in money-related funds; no growth, but with inflation low, it's not getting smaller.

Wait for the inevitable large drop.

Buy as low as you can with a portion of the total; this really is gambling, no matter what they say.

Wait until it recovers near the peak, back to money, locking in the gain.

Rinse, repeat, until you feel long term stability coming back in, then buy your standard mix of high and low growth stuff again, and hold it until the next disruption.

Stocks are really gambling, so YMMV. Seriously.

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post #9 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDsDontBurn View Post
First, I want to state that I don't want to get into your financial business. I just want to know your thoughts on specific companies you are considering to buy and avoiding as well as companies that you currently hold stock in.

I recently got into stocks and did quite well with one of my first picks, Tilray (TLRY). This gave me the itch to be a (almost) day trader. I know it's bad, but having extra cash is awesome, lol.

For those of you have stocks, what are you guys in? Are any of you day traders? Are any of you long term holders of your shares? Do any of you do both (have shares to hold for the long term and other shares that are short term)?

Ideally, I'd like to do the "get rich quick" scheme and find another TLRY type stock to buy. What stocks / companies are out there that is high / good speculation on that?

Are there any penny stocks out there that in the near future 25% speculated growth (or larger of course) is possible where their current share price around (or less) $2.50/share. That's what I'm looking for.

I'm also looking at companies where they're good for the long term. I recently bought GE shares when I heard they got a new CEO. So far, they're basically flat, but I'm hoping for growth in the mid to long term. I bought Ford shares a little while ago, but I've lost 30% since buying that. I missed out on AMD stocks when they were at $9/share. Their recent increase to $32/share was awesome and I missed that boat. That boat is coming back to dock though, lol.

Anyway, I'm interested in hearing what you guys are into and your guys' current sentiment about any company for both the short and long term future.
When I first started, I was impatient and made some rash decisions, but I was in the black immediately during a bull market, so that gave off a false sense of security.

I once messed with a penny stock; never again. Thankfully, I only put in $1000, but I lost about $750 of it.

I did some swing trading with the likes of IQ and HUYA. Thanks to the start of the trade war and the Chinese market eating dirt, whatever I made off of IQ initially turned into a short-term capital loss from what I lost in HUYA and a double-dip in IQ. Never again.

I did make a few good moves for long-term holds though; bought AMZN at $910/share, NVDA at $134, PYPL at $44, AAPL at $140, and a couple of others.

Medical, pharmaceuticals, and biotech are my playground industries, although I'm not particularly adventurous in these fields. I've bought and sold CELG for a small long-term capital loss, DXCM for a nice long-term capital gain thanks to their last earnings report which resulted in my personal best single holding one-day gain of 24%, LGND for a small short-term gain, and recently bought AMRN post-spike because there's still a ton of room for them to run.

The market took a beating in October and while I'm still in the black, my account lost about $15K of its value last month. I'm not looking to cash out anytime soon, but this fall season has been a good reality check. I've reshuffled my portfolio to be less tech-heavy in the past couple of months and have chosen more fundamentally sound companies that still have decent growth potential. Whereas my largest position was once MU (sold for 65% gain over 1.5 years although I was up as much as 130% in May), my second-largest position behind NVDA is now MA, and I'm also looking to increase my position in V. I intend to hold both MA and V for a very long time. To add to Trunk Monkey, I also like BA and they've been on my watch list for several months now. If I had to decide today, the next new first-time purchase I'd make would be JPM. As for my most stable holding, it's UNH.

My portfolio is now more in-line with what I want to do long-term, whereas when I first started, I was trying to make a quick buck because I've been unhappy with my salary at my job. I've got plans for that in the works, so it's time to scale back some of my most aggressive tendencies.

Also, I'm not screwing around with the likes of GE and F. Those stocks are legacy trash as far as I'm concerned. I'm not interested in companies that have been on the decline for many years and have no clear forward direction out of their current malaise. They're like anti-meme stocks. If you want household names for the long-term, try companies that aren't managed by complete idiots and have actually done something since 2008, like JNJ or PG.

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post #10 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 01:10 PM
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I'm not a financial planner so take this advice for what you paid for it.

How much of your invested net worth (IRAs, Brokerage accts, 401K, bitcoin wallets, etc NOT including your home equity or other illiquid assets like your cars and comic collection) are you guys playing with on individual stocks?

Q: Specifically to the OP CDsDontBurn, how much does $3K represent? If it's any more than say 3-5%, I would highly recommend that you invest it in a more broader target.

- In my 20s, I tried betting on individual stocks and while I picked some winners (NVDA back in the day), I also picked some losers (bought CISCO @ $60/share). Timing when to get out of stocks was also something that I have yet to "master" (ex: buying Iridium, watching it double, and then failing to sell it before it came back down to my purchase price).

- I also realized that when I was looking at a chunk of an investment (basically my commission checks from sales), I would just arbitrarily think about "what's hot and where do I want to park this cash" instead of looking at my ENTIRE portfolio. It was only at this point that I realized that I was basically gambling.

- I'm 99% sure that you are younger than me so I would encourage you to NOT repeat my mistakes and take advantage of the magic of compounding. Basically, what you need to do is create some kind of document (like a spreadsheet), that takes into account ALL of your investment accounts and shows how much $$$ is in each broad category (small cap, medium cap, large cap, international, bonds/REIT, and cash).

- How much you keep in each category can be easily determined. I use a basic online calculator that takes into account my age, appetite for risk, how much income I need from investments ($0), and my outlook on the economy (its too hot) to determine the right asset mix. It's primitive but it works and you can see that the other calculators use very same background formulas.
https://www.surepayroll.com/resource...set-allocation

- Obviously, your 401K options are more limited but the idea here is to then select funds OR ETFs which have low fees. Examples I use myself:
Small Cap: VXF (super low expenses - 0.08% but I count this as both a small and med cap), IWM,
Med Cap: VXF, SPMD
Large Cap: BRLIX
Overseas: VWO
Bonds/REIT: VNQ, BND, NCATX (my favorite since it's a CA bond so it's tax free in CA+Federal)

Now, if you want to gamble on certain areas, like China (there are plenty of funds that index the chinese mkt) or Oil (ex: IYE), you can always find funds that will split your risk so you aren't just buying Alibaba or ZTE. Keep in mind that keeping your eggs in one basket can be problematic when govts start getting into trade disputes and your chosen basket gets called out (ex: ZTE a big telecom giant).

- One thing that keeps me sane is that I don't check this spreadsheet more than a few times a year (usually when I have a chunk to invest). I will then rebalance things: mostly deciding where I'm farthest away from my targets and then investing that block of money. However, if things do tend to get too far out of whack, I will sell off certain investments and buy new ones.

- One way to avoid the stock balancing "work" is to just buy a fund of funds. Example FFFFX (Freedom 2040). These move you from equities to bonds over time. The catch is that you are essentially paying 2 fees, one for the management fund and one for the individual funds that the fund holds. IMO, this is only worth it if a) you put ALL your investments in a managed fund so you can just ignore it all or b) you have a specific chunk of cash that you want to invest for a specific term (ex: my kids 529 plan. Fun fact: TIAA CREFF @ Scholarshare.com has a 529 plan that does a passive fund that is age targeted. They don't seem to charge a fee for the fund allocation portion because its up to you to move from one tier to another (0-4, 5-8, 9-10, 11-12, 13-14, 15, 16, 17, 18). No work means no second mgmt fee. https://www.scholarshare529.com/rese...ge-based.shtml

- As a further optimization, if you do decide to gamble, you do so in tax-advantaged accounts like your IRA/ROTH vs your brokerage accts (which will generate more paperwork and taxes). I tend to load my brokerage accts with the bond funds (esp NCATX for the reasons cited above.)

- I still gamble but its in pretty small chunks (few $K here or there). Mostly I buy stocks that I keep for a while or take advantage of my own opinion in areas I know best (ex: tech sector). For example, I was pretty sure that OVT (CMOS sensor) was going to be taken private in China after the announcement even though the stock market was trading LESS than the offer price made by the acquiring company. I also believed that the company was legit and had decent revenue so if the deal fell apart, I was OK with the current price. I bought some of this, held it until it got bought out, and took a quick 10% appreciation for the 6 months. Of course, had this deal happened under the Trump admin (which has blocked foreign acquisition deals), it might have been a dicier bet.

- As a further validation of my investment portfolio, every 1-2 years I do ask my company's financial planner folks (svc offered by my company's 401K administrator) to review all of our assets. They do point out a few things I wasn't aware of (like when one of my funds has a stock that I actually own as an individual asset) but in general, their analysis shows that I'm on track with their suggestions and are pretty close to their ideal asset mix for my age as well.

- Mike's suggestion is correct. Even if your investment shoots up by 5x, 5 x $3K isn't going to change your life and the slow and steady approach is a good one. In my experience, while I'm lucky enough to have a good job that allows me to grow my investments (principle) regularly, my spreadsheet shows a pretty linear growth pattern since I started tracking the combined assets of my wife+me (using excel you can input the assets vs time and ask it to see what equation fits the curve best).

I clearly haven't hit the "face tattoo" money yet but I'm happy with the linear growth of our investments. The recent corrections haven't bothered me.

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post #11 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-02-2018, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
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When I first started, I was impatient and made some rash decisions, but I was in the black immediately during a bull market, so that gave off a false sense of security.

I once messed with a penny stock; never again. Thankfully, I only put in $1000, but I lost about $750 of it.

I did some swing trading with the likes of IQ and HUYA. Thanks to the start of the trade war and the Chinese market eating dirt, whatever I made off of IQ initially turned into a short-term capital loss from what I lost in HUYA and a double-dip in IQ. Never again.

I did make a few good moves for long-term holds though; bought AMZN at $910/share, NVDA at $134, PYPL at $44, AAPL at $140, and a couple of others.

Medical, pharmaceuticals, and biotech are my playground industries, although I'm not particularly adventurous in these fields. I've bought and sold CELG for a small long-term capital loss, DXCM for a nice long-term capital gain thanks to their last earnings report which resulted in my personal best single holding one-day gain of 24%, LGND for a small short-term gain, and recently bought AMRN post-spike because there's still a ton of room for them to run.

The market took a beating in October and while I'm still in the black, my account lost about $15K of its value last month. I'm not looking to cash out anytime soon, but this fall season has been a good reality check. I've reshuffled my portfolio to be less tech-heavy in the past couple of months and have chosen more fundamentally sound companies that still have decent growth potential. Whereas my largest position was once MU (sold for 65% gain over 1.5 years although I was up as much as 130% in May), my second-largest position behind NVDA is now MA, and I'm also looking to increase my position in V. I intend to hold both MA and V for a very long time. To add to Trunk Monkey, I also like BA and they've been on my watch list for several months now. If I had to decide today, the next new first-time purchase I'd make would be JPM. As for my most stable holding, it's UNH.
I looked at every single stock you mentioned, and depending on when you bought, I can see that you made some coin overall. Tech is my area, but that's all going downhill right now due to the ongoing market correction. I'm at a loss as to who to invest in right now without taking any immediate losses. I'm just watching and waiting really to see what is out there at a price I think is decent to buy at.

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My portfolio is now more in-line with what I want to do long-term, whereas when I first started, I was trying to make a quick buck because I've been unhappy with my salary at my job. I've got plans for that in the works, so it's time to scale back some of my most aggressive tendencies.
That's more or less where I'm at right now, and for me being in tech, I live too far out of the metropolis Los Angeles County and Orange County tech heavy areas for me to have good wages relative to the tech sector. I can go work out in those areas, but my commute time would increase exponentially compared to where I'm at now. I've been there, done that, and I don't want to do it again. The position I was at before my current employer, I was commuting an average of 6hrs/day and don't want to do that again. I value my work-family life ratio and would rather take a hit on income than slowly die in traffic every day.

Basically, at the end of the day it comes down to the fact that, I make a decent living, but it's not where I should be at I feel. Yes, there are positions out there somewhat close to me where my personal income can increase, and I've been looking but I haven't had any bites. So this whole stock thing is an area where I can gain some extra income on the side to improve my current income levels. /vent

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Also, I'm not screwing around with the likes of GE and F. Those stocks are legacy trash as far as I'm concerned. I'm not interested in companies that have been on the decline for many years and have no clear forward direction out of their current malaise. They're like anti-meme stocks. If you want household names for the long-term, try companies that aren't managed by complete idiots and have actually done something since 2008, like JNJ or PG.
Yesterday I sold all my GE stock for a 15% loss. I bought GE stock shortly after they announced a new CEO on the hopes that it would turn the company around, but those hopes would be on the long view, and as I've stated, I'm looking for near or short term results.

I'm still holding onto my shares of F and considering buying more because they're so cheap now. Overall, my shares of F are at a loss currently, but this one is for sure one I'd hold for the long view.

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Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
I'm not a financial planner so take this advice for what you paid for it.
I'll take free advice!

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Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
How much of your invested net worth (IRAs, Brokerage accts, 401K, bitcoin wallets, etc NOT including your home equity or other illiquid assets like your cars and comic collection) are you guys playing with on individual stocks?
I can honestly say, not enough. Yes, I have accounts, but I don't have enough.

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Q: Specifically to the OP CDsDontBurn, how much does $3K represent? If it's any more than say 3-5%, I would highly recommend that you invest it in a more broader target.
I have to ask you to clarify. How much does $3K represent in terms of....? Single one time investment into stocks, annual wages, other investment accounts, etc.

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- In my 20s, I tried betting on individual stocks and while I picked some winners (NVDA back in the day), I also picked some losers (bought CISCO @ $60/share). Timing when to get out of stocks was also something that I have yet to "master" (ex: buying Iridium, watching it double, and then failing to sell it before it came back down to my purchase price).
I wish I started in my 20s. I'd be flush with cash right now! LOL

So many companies I saw out there that I just knew they would be winners. Companies like Google, Amazon, PayPal, NVIDIA, AMD (sorta), Microsoft, etc. They were either all hot IPOs or established companies ready to balloon in value.

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Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
- I'm 99% sure that you are younger than me so I would encourage you to NOT repeat my mistakes and take advantage of the magic of compounding. Basically, what you need to do is create some kind of document (like a spreadsheet), that takes into account ALL of your investment accounts and shows how much $$$ is in each broad category (small cap, medium cap, large cap, international, bonds/REIT, and cash).
We've talked age before, and we've established that I'm 4.5yrs younger than you.

I know very well about compounding interest and how it works. It's just that I've never been able to take advantage of it to have it work for me until very recently.

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Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
- How much you keep in each category can be easily determined. I use a basic online calculator that takes into account my age, appetite for risk, how much income I need from investments ($0), and my outlook on the economy (its too hot) to determine the right asset mix. It's primitive but it works and you can see that the other calculators use very same background formulas.
https://www.surepayroll.com/resource...set-allocation

- Obviously, your 401K options are more limited but the idea here is to then select funds OR ETFs which have low fees. Examples I use myself:
Small Cap: VXF (super low expenses - 0.08% but I count this as both a small and med cap), IWM,
Med Cap: VXF, SPMD
Large Cap: BRLIX
Overseas: VWO
Bonds/REIT: VNQ, BND, NCATX (my favorite since it's a CA bond so it's tax free in CA+Federal)
Thanks for the tool! I've added it to my favorites!

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Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
Now, if you want to gamble on certain areas, like China (there are plenty of funds that index the chinese mkt) or Oil (ex: IYE), you can always find funds that will split your risk so you aren't just buying Alibaba or ZTE. Keep in mind that keeping your eggs in one basket can be problematic when govts start getting into trade disputes and your chosen basket gets called out (ex: ZTE a big telecom giant).
Betting on China right now, because of the current administration, I feel will be a mixed bag. Unfortunately for me, I don't know enough about the Chinese market to take strategic gambles in Chinese market. The trade disputes like you said are what will keep me away from Chinese markets unless there is something out there that just stands out.

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Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
- One way to avoid the stock balancing "work" is to just buy a fund of funds. Example FFFFX (Freedom 2040). These move you from equities to bonds over time. The catch is that you are essentially paying 2 fees, one for the management fund and one for the individual funds that the fund holds. IMO, this is only worth it if a) you put ALL your investments in a managed fund so you can just ignore it all or b) you have a specific chunk of cash that you want to invest for a specific term (ex: my kids 529 plan. Fun fact: TIAA CREFF @ Scholarshare.com has a 529 plan that does a passive fund that is age targeted. They don't seem to charge a fee for the fund allocation portion because its up to you to move from one tier to another (0-4, 5-8, 9-10, 11-12, 13-14, 15, 16, 17, 18). No work means no second mgmt fee. https://www.scholarshare529.com/rese...ge-based.shtml
I'll have to read / research more on these to make an informed decision on how these will impact my finances.

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Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
- Mike's suggestion is correct. Even if your investment shoots up by 5x, 5 x $3K isn't going to change your life and the slow and steady approach is a good one. In my experience, while I'm lucky enough to have a good job that allows me to grow my investments (principle) regularly, my spreadsheet shows a pretty linear growth pattern since I started tracking the combined assets of my wife+me (using excel you can input the assets vs time and ask it to see what equation fits the curve best).
Sure, a single $15k profit earnings isn't going to be life changing, but it will definitely suit my immediate needs further. I'm looking to pay down unwanted debt as quickly as possible and $15k will take care of 100% of that debt and have money left over.

Ideally, if I can score big on a couple stocks and get $30k in earnings, it would be exactly what I need in order to satisfy my needs (pay off unwanted debts) and wants (buy a truck w/significant down payment to keep monthly bill down and payoff quickly).

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post #12 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-02-2018, 07:49 PM
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I was asking about how much 3K represents in terms of a percentage of your total liquid net worth. This means all of your brokerage accounts, savings accounts, and other liquid Investments. I would also take into account retirement accounts since often people in our age group will hold equities in them but I would exclude your house and your cars and any Collectibles you may have.

it's very clear that you are looking for the quick score to wipe out your debt since you'd like to see your 3K grow by 5x in a short period of time. I can honestly say this is not a realistic goal as any opportunity that could grow by that much is far more likely to zero out.

If you really want to gamble with this money, just be honest and take it to your nearest casino. Baccarat has the lowest house Edge at 48:50 so it's almost as good as flipping a coin. The best odds are on the money placed behind the line when you lay odds in craps but with craps there's a serious temptation to throw lots of bets all over the place. The next thing you know, your free drink just cost 300 bucks.

You mentioned having debt. What is your highest interest rate? In your shoes, my first inclination would be to use this money to pay off this debt as quickly as possible. I'm assuming that unless you did some kind of refinancing, your interest rates are probably north of 10% and closer to 15 as the national average is already at 17% again for credit cards. Paying down these expensive ass credit cards is by far the best Roi you can guarantee. There are also things you can do like take advantage of 0% balance transfer deals to try and consolidate this debt if you know you can knock it out within the promotional period. Sure, every 0% balance transfer deal now comes with a 3% fee with no cap but if that means not paying 15% interest for 12 months or 18 months, that would be a good deal. If you have good credit and I seem to recall that you already have a house, there are games you can play to earn yourself several hundred dollars per additional credit hit by hunting for credit card or bank account sign up deals. You certainly won't get rich this way but these kind of tactics can certainly earn you a few thousand towards your 15K goal.

Unless you have all of your debt under 3 or 5%, it's not realistic to think that you will be able to beat the market on a reliable basis especially since any short your term gains you may achieve will be cut down by your federal and state income taxes. Sure, it's not as sexy as bragging on to the internet that you picked the next Nvidia but you could have just as easily picked 3DFX. Trust me. I know that one from experience.

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post #13 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-02-2018, 08:28 PM
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Do you have a 401k at your job? If you do, you can borrow money from that to pay off your debt. I think you can borrow up to half of its value, and pay it back over up to 5 years, usually at much lower interest rates than any other type of loan. I don’t advise borrowing from it to buy a depreciating asset like a truck, but to get rid of high interest debt it would be your best way. If you don’t have the ability to borrow from that, a local credit union could give you a personal loan with a fixed payoff schedule, and at a much cheaper rate than credit cards.

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post #14 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-02-2018, 09:11 PM
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I'd be careful with tech hardware stocks; Moore's law is dead, speed upgrades are a thing of the past; intel's next enthusiast processor needs a 2000w cooler and a 2000w power supply.

That won't fly for a 10% speed increase, lol.

Nvidia is having heat issues, and AMD is going to achieve parity with both of those soon; then it just descends into lawsuits, from previous experience, with an eventual consolidation of all of them.

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post #15 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-03-2018, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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I was asking about how much 3K represents in terms of a percentage of your total liquid net worth. This means all of your brokerage accounts, savings accounts, and other liquid Investments. I would also take into account retirement accounts since often people in our age group will hold equities in them but I would exclude your house and your cars and any Collectibles you may have.
As of right now, $3k represents around 10% of my liquid net worth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
it's very clear that you are looking for the quick score to wipe out your debt since you'd like to see your 3K grow by 5x in a short period of time. I can honestly say this is not a realistic goal as any opportunity that could grow by that much is far more likely to zero out.
For me, a "short period of time" is upto 1yr. The sooner, the better, of course.

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Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
If you really want to gamble with this money, just be honest and take it to your nearest casino. Baccarat has the lowest house Edge at 48:50 so it's almost as good as flipping a coin. The best odds are on the money placed behind the line when you lay odds in craps but with craps there's a serious temptation to throw lots of bets all over the place. The next thing you know, your free drink just cost 300 bucks.
In the 5yrs I've been living where I live, there's a casino within 10 minutes of where I live. I've never been in there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
You mentioned having debt. What is your highest interest rate? In your shoes, my first inclination would be to use this money to pay off this debt as quickly as possible.

I'm assuming that unless you did some kind of refinancing, your interest rates are probably north of 10% and closer to 15 as the national average is already at 17% again for credit cards. Paying down these expensive ass credit cards is by far the best Roi you can guarantee.
My highest interest rate balance is a CC at 12.99% interest. Next up, are my two private student loans at 11.5% After that is a personal loan I pulled up to replace my HVAC system which is at 8.99%. It was more than the liquid cash I had available so I had to pull up a loan for the balance. Life, right?

Outside of my mortgage, I don't have any other revolving balances or debts. Yes, I have other open accounts, but they're at $0 balance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
There are also things you can do like take advantage of 0% balance transfer deals to try and consolidate this debt if you know you can knock it out within the promotional period. Sure, every 0% balance transfer deal now comes with a 3% fee with no cap but if that means not paying 15% interest for 12 months or 18 months, that would be a good deal. If you have good credit and I seem to recall that you already have a house, there are games you can play to earn yourself several hundred dollars per additional credit hit by hunting for credit card or bank account sign up deals. You certainly won't get rich this way but these kind of tactics can certainly earn you a few thousand towards your 15K goal.
I've thought of doing balance transfers and such, but I'd hate to have a hard hit on my credit to find out I'm only given a loan amount smaller than what I'd actually need to take full advantage of paying off two balances at once. For example, say I need $5k to pay off two loans but I only end up getting $2k.

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Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
Unless you have all of your debt under 3 or 5%, it's not realistic to think that you will be able to beat the market on a reliable basis especially since any short your term gains you may achieve will be cut down by your federal and state income taxes. Sure, it's not as sexy as bragging on to the internet that you picked the next Nvidia but you could have just as easily picked 3DFX. Trust me. I know that one from experience.
Maybe having an insider somewhere would help, LOL. But that's a whole different can of worms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
Do you have a 401k at your job? If you do, you can borrow money from that to pay off your debt. I think you can borrow up to half of its value, and pay it back over up to 5 years, usually at much lower interest rates than any other type of loan. I don’t advise borrowing from it to buy a depreciating asset like a truck, but to get rid of high interest debt it would be your best way. If you don’t have the ability to borrow from that, a local credit union could give you a personal loan with a fixed payoff schedule, and at a much cheaper rate than credit cards.
I've thought of it, but it's not something I'd like to do. I'd only touch my 457b account if I needed cash in an absolute emergency. Everything else I'd figure out some other way.

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post #16 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-03-2018, 08:48 PM
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Go after the student loans last because the interest on them is tax deductible whereas interest on the others is not. You can deduct interest on your student loan even if you don't itemize your deductions.

More info here: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stude...-ded_b_7486888
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post #17 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-03-2018, 09:40 PM
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Maybe having an insider somewhere would help, LOL. But that's a whole different can of worms.
On the plus side, Martha Stewart got to meet Snoop Dogg, lol.

Not a good idea, lol.

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post #18 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-03-2018, 11:22 PM
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... As of right now, $3k represents around 10% of my liquid net worth....
... For me, a "short period of time" is upto 1yr. The sooner, the better, of course....

My highest interest rate balance is a CC at 12.99% interest. Next up, are my two private student loans at 11.5% After that is a personal loan I pulled up to replace my HVAC system which is at 8.99%. It was more than the liquid cash I had available so I had to pull up a loan for the balance.
Based on what you are saying, it's pretty clear to me that the least sexy but most fiscally prudent thing to do is use the $3K to pay down the CC @ 12.99%. Gambling with 10% of your liquid assets is pretty crazy. Btw, it's your assets vs your net worth as your net worth is technically these assets minus your liabilities.

If you don't, you will be paying that 12.99% interest with post-tax dollars.
That means you will need to earn a good deal more than that with you "stock market pick" to just break even with this guaranteed option.

Using a basic CA paycheck calculator and assuming a household income (married) of $75K, your take home is approx 80% of your gross. Therefore, in order to just match the 12.99% savings on the CC debt, you will need to earn approx 16% return on your hot stock pick (since you'll be paying taxes on that short term gains).
How realistic is that?

C'mon man. Pay down that CC.
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post #19 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-03-2018, 11:38 PM
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Paying down CC debt that has a 12.99% interest rate is the same as investing in something that yields a 12.99% return - you're saving yourself that much in interest payments.

It's a no brainer. Pay down the highest (non-deductible) interest incurring debt first. Then concentrate on the next highest. Pay them both down at the same time if you can.

Of course, you must also continue to make the required payment on the other loans at the same time.

About credit cards: NEVER carry a balance if you can help it. If you must carry a balance always make more than the minimum payment. Figure out a way to pay it off as fast as possible and once you get to zero. Pay the balance - in full - every month.

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post #20 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-05-2018, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by CDsDontBurn View Post
I've thought of doing balance transfers and such, but I'd hate to have a hard hit on my credit to find out I'm only given a loan amount smaller than what I'd actually need to take full advantage of paying off two balances at once. For example, say I need $5k to pay off two loans but I only end up getting $2k.
I thought of your post from two days ago and wanted to make a second reply encouraging you to reconsider your relationship with credit cards AND balances.
If ALL of the following are true:
1) you can stand having a credit card that is not maxed out (not everyone has this self control)
2) your mortgage is already at a historic low interest rate (<5% for a 30yr fixed) so there is no need to refi in the immediate future
3) your income can sustain having another credit line, or two, or five, what
and to a lesser extend
4) your credit score is already above 720.
... then there's no reason to worry about your credit score or having an additional one, two, or even five lines of credit.

>720 gets you the best interest rates possible. It doesn't need to be 850 or 900. Who cares if you have a bunch of short term (<1 yr credit lines) as long as you still have some "seasoned" ones.

Suggestions
* Find out where you and your wife stand today. Most all credit cards offer a peak at your FICO score (or a synthetic equivalent) without dinging your credit.
https://www.discover.com/free-credit-score/
https://www.cardbenefits.citi.com/Pr...ICO-Score.aspx
https://creditcards.chase.com/free-credit-score
https://www.americanexpress.com/us/c...ore/index.html

* You are also entitled to see your report from each of the 3 agencies for free once a year
https://www.americanexpress.com/us/c...ore/index.html

* If everything looks good, consider the following
https://www.creditkarma.com/creditca...fer-cards-dsk/
AMEX is offering up to 21months of 0% balance transfer (just the 3% fee). You need to setup an autopayment of the minimum during the period to avoid any gotcha fees. If you can aggressively pay them off during the free money window, does it really matter if you have one or two credit cards to knock out all of your interest payments?

* Once you have the BT deals in order, check out how you can use your good credit to make money.
Check out slickdeals, creditkarma, creditboards, and thepointsguy to see the latest credit card promos. Here are two I like:

Chase has an 80K points deal for spending $5K in 3 months. 80K can be transferred to your bank acct as $800.
https://slickdeals.net/f/9205591-cha...src=SiteSearch

They also have a similar deal for $500 for $3K spending in 3 months
https://slickdeals.net/f/11621423-ch...=sticky-missed

NOTES:
* Anyone can get a business card even without a business. You just get it as a sole proprietor with your name.
* Chase has a 5/24 rule meaning they will auto deny you no matter how stellar your credit is if you have more than 5 new credit lines in 24 months or open too many at once. Watch out for this one.
* Obviously, you have to make the minimum spend. While there were some glorious ways to do so in the past (prepaid Visa/MC GCs you could buy and then cash out by buying money orders @ Walmart for a total expense of $3.50 per $1000, $1 coins from the US mint you could just redeposit into your bank acct, etc), traditional methods still work: utility, cell phone, internet, and insurance bills are often payable via credit card.
* You can also open some bank accts w/ a credit card deposit -- some of which treat this as a deposit vs cash advance.
If you have extra deposit money ($5K-20K usually), you can go after promo deals here (sometimes up to $500 per acct) as well BUT as a simple matter, make sure to read the fine print as to how quickly you can close the acct to avoid any fees and the minimum balance you need to maintain to avoid fees.
https://www.doctorofcredit.com/does-...-cash-advance/


Anyway, if you can track a few things, this is NOT a hard way to make a few hundred to few thousand/yr.
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post #21 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-07-2018, 07:15 PM
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Ah, yes, the glory days of manufactured spending. I never played that game but I know many did. I think today the card companies are a bit more aware of this practice and will suspend accounts that they suspect of it.

Anyway, in addition to the above, once you establish your credit. I highly recommend freezing it to protect against identity theft or any other form of credit fraud.

You can now freeze it for free at the big three: Transunion, Experian and Equifax. Take care not to lose your PIN number and make sure you have a good way to retrieve it by using an email address and phone number that you intend to keep for two factor authentication.

https://www.experian.com/freeze/center.html

https://www.transunion.com/credit-freeze

https://www.equifax.com/personal/cre...port-services/

Credit freezes are extremely effective. Once frozen nobody - short of the NSA - can look at or set up credit accounts in your name.

Read more here: https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/article...it-freeze-faqs

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post #22 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-08-2018, 01:14 AM Thread Starter
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I actually pulled my credit report from all three of the above mentioned credit reporting agencies. It's been a little over 3 years since I did it last and am happy to report that nothing that I don't know about is on there.

In regards to risk, I put down $1,100 on MSFT today. I also setup a stop-loss rule of $100/share to limit my losses at $1,000 should the stock go south. I regret not having bought MSFT last week when it was at $107/share instead of today's $111/share. I see MSFT as the only tech company to go up in the current tech market, which is a big reason why I took that jump. It's definitely not going to be the "get rich quick" type of purchase, but given enough time, I could see it making me an extra $100 or so, at least. If the price edges up enough, I'll change my stop loss rule so that, hopefully, any losses are still gains overall.

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post #23 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-08-2018, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
Ah, yes, the glory days of manufactured spending. I never played that game but I know many did. I think today the card companies are a bit more aware of this practice and will suspend accounts that they suspect of it.

Anyway, in addition to the above, once you establish your credit. I highly recommend freezing it to protect against identity theft or any other form of credit fraud.

You can now freeze it for free at the big three: Transunion, Experian and Equifax. Take care not to lose your PIN number and make sure you have a good way to retrieve it by using an email address and phone number that you intend to keep for two factor authentication.

https://www.experian.com/freeze/center.html

https://www.transunion.com/credit-freeze

https://www.equifax.com/personal/cre...port-services/

Credit freezes are extremely effective. Once frozen nobody - short of the NSA - can look at or set up credit accounts in your name.

Read more here: https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/article...it-freeze-faqs
1) Yeah, lucky for me my job allows me to put all of my work-related expenses on my personal CC and reap the benefits. I churned the mfg spending back in the day for the cash or points back + the interest on the float. If we want to get all nostalgic, I remember the days of getting 5% in my high yield savings and the BT fees were capped at $50. I remember going from $5K/mo "debt" on my credit reports (paid off monthly w/ my reimbursement checks and personal spending) to $120K in CC "debt". My bank acct balances went up by that much as well. Thankfully, I'm the kind of person to look at that balance as a guaranteed $5K interest vs a potential to make far more by putting it in a "safe" investment in the market.

2) Thanks for sharing these direct links. It was a good reminder to go ahead and put the freezes down for me and my wife. i already had it in place w/ Equifax but not for the other two.

3) One more thing to share. One recent relatively new benefit I've seen that triggered me to get another CC was that Wells Fargo (yeah, those bastards) are now giving cell phone insurance coverage if you pay your bill with their CC. Sure, I'm forgoing 5% cash back for the mee 1.5% they give but I also gain cell phone damage insurance up to $600 for all the lines on my acct (alternative is paying $10/mo per line to Verizon). That was pretty compelling to me.
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post #24 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-08-2018, 11:52 AM
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I actually pulled my credit report from all three of the above mentioned credit reporting agencies. It's been a little over 3 years since I did it last and am happy to report that nothing that I don't know about is on there.

In regards to risk, I put down $1,100 on MSFT today. I also setup a stop-loss rule of $100/share to limit my losses at $1,000 should the stock go south. I regret not having bought MSFT last week when it was at $107/share instead of today's $111/share. I see MSFT as the only tech company to go up in the current tech market, which is a big reason why I took that jump. It's definitely not going to be the "get rich quick" type of purchase, but given enough time, I could see it making me an extra $100 or so, at least. If the price edges up enough, I'll change my stop loss rule so that, hopefully, any losses are still gains overall.
1) As any mutual fund prospectus will state, past performance is no indication of future gains.
2)As calculated previously, 12.99% credit card debt will be the equivalent of 16% pretax income.
I'm going to assume you bought 10 shares instead of 9 for easier calculations. That $1110 must grow to $1287 + $20 for the commission at both ends = $1307.
MSFT pays a quarterly dividend now of 46c/share so you can subtract $5 from this estimate.
https://www.streetinsider.com/divide...ory.php?q=msft

Therefore, just to break even with your alternative option, you need your investment to grow to $1300 within 365 days.

We may still be in a bull market because NASDAQ stocks, MSFT included, are still trading above their 200 day average ($100 for MSFT)
https://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=MSFT

There has also historically been a rise in all stocks after the uncertainty of midterm elections but there's no guarantee of that happening again.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/st...ain-2018-11-08


Good luck.
-g
PS. One of my dad's friends told me the only difference between gambling and the stock market is that you know the name of all your chips.
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post #25 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-08-2018, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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I'm using Fidelity, and it's only $4.95 commission fee for buy and sell.

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post #26 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-08-2018, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CDsDontBurn View Post
I'm using Fidelity, and it's only $4.95 commission fee for buy and sell.
Great! $1292 is your breakeven

If you do generate another $1K or so that you want to invest and still don't want to payoff your credit, here's another bad idea:

I had a great (probably a little drunken chat) with a friend of a friend a few weekends ago on bitcoin trading. This dude started mining back in the day and then built up a decent warchest of BTC. He then made a decent living gambling on alt coins.

In comparison, I bought $100 of BTC at $400 per coin because i was worried that my MIL would get her PC encrypted and ransomed.
I sold off $1K worth (10x) a year later during the boom and still have a few hundred left.

What I learned is that if you have a coinbase acct (like most retail BTC vs meganerds), you have access to their pro trading platform.
http://pro.coinbase.com

I learned in our drunken chat that:
Limit orders (where you set the price above/below the market and wait for the trading to hit your price) is actually commission free.
"When you place an order at the market price that gets filled immediately, you are considered a taker and will pay a fee between 0.10% and 0.30%.
When you place an order which is not immediately matched by an existing order, that order is placed on the order book. If another customer
places an order that matches yours, you are considered the maker and your fee will be 0%."

I'm tempted by this trading platform. The market for BTC is pretty dead right now but there are lots of charts and knobs. It's pretty and Im tempted.

I'm sure that this will fuckup my taxes even more but if it's already a PITA, what's one more issue to wade through?
-g

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post #27 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-08-2018, 03:31 PM Thread Starter
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I'm feeling lucky right now. I think I'm going to pull the rest of my money and buy PowerBall Lotto tickets.

BTC is on the downhill now. Best time to buy.

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post #28 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-08-2018, 04:10 PM
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I'm feeling lucky right now. I think I'm going to pull the rest of my money and buy PowerBall Lotto tickets.

BTC is on the downhill now. Best time to buy.
Lambo or GTFO!
To the moon!
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post #29 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-08-2018, 09:05 PM
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Speaking of gambling. I'm amazed how well (RACE) had done since going public in October of 2015. I considered buying a few chips but couldn't justify it for such a niche seller.

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post #30 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-08-2018, 09:44 PM
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Aside from dumping as much as the government will let me into my 401k, I don't have a portfolio. I played around with crypto trading for a while but it's been so low lately I've just been holding on to my coins. Mining hasn't been profitable either due to rising complexity and diminished value. Best part of it was that I got in the mining game while it was high about a year ago and sold enough off to break even on the hardware, with some to spare. Anybody want a pair of GTX 1060s?

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