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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
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440ci timing

Our motor runs fine but, when u put a timing light to it, its no where near the mark!! Dad says its like 180degrees off. And when you turn the distributor that far it dies, or runs real rough and pops like nuts in the exhaust. We tried moving the plug wires one ahead, and then 2 head. Runs best when it just 180 degree off on the timing mark.

Dont really understand it. And anyone familiar with a mopar engine, when you turn the distributer towards the radiator is that advance or retard? Cause when we turn the distrib that way to m uch flames like to shoot out of the carbs. I hold the record for setting both carbs on fire But this timing thing is crazy, does it really matter where the distrib is as long as #1 is in line?
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 06:03 PM
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if the ignition is 180* off you'd need to move all the wires 4 positions over, wouldn't you?

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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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lol which way though. just weird cause it purrs like a kitten right now
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ITHURTZ
lol which way though. just weird cause it purrs like a kitten right now
Then leave it alone!
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
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lol i know but its the fact the timing lines up is what is confusing!!!!
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 06:24 PM
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Lightbulb

If you think it is 180 degree out...then you have to pull the cap...mark where the rotor is pointing, then pull the distributor out and turn till the rotor is pointing in the exact opposite direction and re-install. That will prove the 180 degree out theory....if it doesn't start, then that theory is wrong.

Some say "If it aint broke, don't fix it" I say "If it aint broke, break it so you can fix it anyways"
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 06:26 PM
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Lightbulb

Also make sure when the number one piston is up, the timing line mates up with the correct mark. Make sure the #1 piston is up, the mark is right on, and the rotor is point to the number one wire on the cap! Can't be wrong with the basics!

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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
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we did that before we put it in. at TDC the rotor is at the #1 piston, and i doubt the timing mark on the crank can be put on wrong to mis align the marks right?
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 06:31 PM
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Cool

That's correct, but make sure that it is on the compression stroke.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 06:34 PM
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Lightbulb

its not cut into the harmonic balancer? i would hope its not wrong? you may just have to leave it the way it is and keep an eye on the plugs and fuel mileage...to make sure its not eating plugs or giving really bad feul mileage. It may just be a mopar fluke!

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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 07:35 PM
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I'd bet that you brought #1 piston up on the decompresson stroke, instead of the compression stroke. I've done that before on a 454, and well, after the muffler ballooned from the explosion of raw gas, I figured it out, lol. Shooting flames out the top of the carb tells me it's out too far for you to be able to turn the dist. to adjust properly. Good luck, and watch the hair

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These are highly engineered precision vehicles, the first step in diagnosing the problem is to strike the suspected offending part sharply and repeatedly with a blunt object, then re-test.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ITHURTZ
lol which way though. just weird cause it purrs like a kitten right now

Good luck with that future speed shop.

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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 09:51 PM Thread Starter
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TX na there is lines on it, and as for fuel mileage we got 5mpg on the highway

FordMan that could be, I just talked to him about that and possibly friday we wull check it all over again. we will see
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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And also does anyone know which piston is #1 on a 1970 440? His book says the driver side front is #1. On my tbird it was passenger side front.. Why would they change it? I have yet to see visual proof. The book gives you a picture but it doesnt tell you if its front view or back view
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 04:29 AM
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Drivers side front is #1. Also check that the balance ring on the harmonic balancer hasn't spun. it isn't unusual for the outer ring to walk a little bit. I have seen it on small block chevys quite a bit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ITHURTZ
And also does anyone know which piston is #1 on a 1970 440? His book says the driver side front is #1. On my tbird it was passenger side front.. Why would they change it? I have yet to see visual proof. The book gives you a picture but it doesnt tell you if its front view or back view
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 05:25 AM
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also be sure you unplug the vacuum advance from the dist. when you set the timing, and double check that the vacuum source is correct for your setup(ported or constant)
hope that helps

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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ITHURTZ
And also does anyone know which piston is #1 on a 1970 440? His book says the driver side front is #1.
The driver's side front piston is #1 on all V6s, V8s, V10s, V12s and V16's.
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 08:55 AM
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Not enough room here to completely explain the entire set up of a distributer but I'll try to hit the important stuff.

Start with total timing. Timing when the centrifigal weights are bottomed out.
With the vacuum advance plugged and disconnected. Rev the motor until the timing stops advancing. Set it to 36deg. This is typically 2500-3500rpm.
Let the motor idle and observe the timing. Should be about 10-20 deg.
Plug the vacuum advance to manifold vacuum and it should raise the timing at idle and light throttle cruising about 15 deg.

You are not out 180 deg, the motor will not run that far out.

You will need an advance light to perform total timing.

www.moparts.com

lots of helpful Mopar guys on there but this will work for any early V8.

Direction for advancing is against the firing order, with it to retard.
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 09:36 AM
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Distributor direction. If It has vacuum advance. the rotation will go with the pod direction, or against the pull of the vacuum pod arm. Also a handy timing trick. If you want to know where the engine wants to be timed. Pull the coil wire, put a vacuum gauge to maifold. Have someone crank while you hold throattle wide open, and observe vacuum gauge reading. Still while cranking rotate distributor until highest vacuum is abtained and lock down dist. This should be where the engine loves the timing to be.

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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 09:46 AM
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You'd think someone who claims to have a 9 second car would know how to time it.
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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 10:53 AM
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I can go to my friends house and buy a 7 second car!
Doesn't mean I know how to time it.

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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 12:51 PM
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IF it was 180out you would be throwing flames out the carb. more than likely you forgot to pull the vac advance off the distrbutor. pull it off then check the timing
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
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Kdanner, we did not build the car, this guy that had it before hand did some pretty red neck things. It runs like i said, like a kitten, lines just dont match. Last i looked there was no vacuum line going to the distrib.. Infact, I dont remember seeing ANY vacuum lines, next time Im out there I better look closely and see if there i fact is any...


ying, we do throw flames out of the carb, 6 times shot flames to the ceiling, one time caught them on fire, only when you try for a wot run though.

We will check over everything, maybe reverse the plugs and put them one off the other way.
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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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yup no vacuum lines anywhere. Re checking the tdc on the compression stroke is next
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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drnaline
Distributor direction. If It has vacuum advance. the rotation will go with the pod direction, or against the pull of the vacuum pod arm. Also a handy timing trick. If you want to know where the engine wants to be timed. Pull the coil wire, put a vacuum gauge to maifold. Have someone crank while you hold throattle wide open, and observe vacuum gauge reading. Still while cranking rotate distributor until highest vacuum is abtained and lock down dist. This should be where the engine loves the timing to be.
Thanks for sharing a great tip with the direction the vacuum pod points.

This other idea. No way Jose'.

Vacuum gauge to manifold with throttle wide open. It would read zero all day regardless of what anyone is doing with a dead distributor.

No backyard idea like that is going to let you know where you engine "loves" to be timing.

For optimum tuning you need to set at least 3 things on a distributor.
Initial, total and vacuum timing.
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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 08:20 PM
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I may have some of the process off. That's what I remember off the top off my head. I'll see if I can find all of it.

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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 09:39 PM
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Drnaline, you may be thinking of camshaft timing.
You can advance or retard camshaft timing too.
Advancing it will give you more torque but you will sacrifice horsepower.
Retarding it does the opposite.

Most engine builders know what they want. Small motor, heavy car, error towards a slightly advanced cam. Big motor, light car. Retarding the cam will reduce torque but gain top end horsepower.

Anyways Ithurtz just want to know how to set his timing and these topics are way too deep for beginners.

I suggest hitting www.moparts.com dig around in the tech archives and enjoy your powerful 440 beast.
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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 09:51 PM Thread Starter
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Lol i am not a beginner. I wasnt born in the carb world so I dont know EVERYTHING about them. Its compression check with the timing and Ill go from there. Thanks for the site, maybe I can put parts on there that we replaced
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