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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 12:59 AM Thread Starter
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MLM's

Multi Level Marketing theories... I was wondering what anybody around here thought of em. I'm more specifically looking at wisdom from people who've actually been involved, and that probably includes the older generations around here (this is relative, I'm 22). The differences between pryamids and MLMs is that Pyramid incomes are based on the income from signing up new members, MLMs income is based on selling products (hence the legality of the programs) and sponsoring new people. I'm doing googles (to find skepticisms) and reading third party company documents, for good vs bad information. If anybody around here has been involved in one, let me know if you made $, lost income, etc, and any opinions and thoughts you have to share about being involved. Thanks in advance!

+1

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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 05:11 PM
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What company???I have been involved in two (Quixtar and morinda [Tahitian Noni Juice] and they can be good an bad in the same boat. It all depends how much work you are willing to put into the network...you as the mlm starter, you have to find good people to be directly under you, (atleast 5 or 6 GOOD candidates) and stay on your good ones to recruit the same type of recruits. I wasn't dedicated enough to my network, and I kindof gave up. THE ONLY ISSUE I HAVE WITH MLM's is that they usually require a minimum purchase of heir products each month.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-11-2005, 12:42 AM Thread Starter
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I'm involved with Quixtar, but more directly with WWG/WWDB. They tell you not to do googles, to find company documents from Microsoft, Compaq, etc, and do research there. I did googles anyways so I can get both sides of the story, I also found out that Alticor owns WWDB, Amway, Quixtar AND Access business group (talk about owning the channel lol). Some of the horror tales were mentioning people going into debt, losing marriages, etc etc. Now granted these are extremists, but I would think something like this would have great potential for good and bad. Like one of the guys at work said, it's a great concept, being able to buy things at wholesale, but the implementation has left bitter tastes in people's mouths.

Personally I'm more about moving product than I am interested in convincing people to sign up as an IBO. The way I figure, even if you have 1,000 down-lines, if nobody's buying product, no $ is moving. I'd rather sell product and make my $ that way, and if anyone expresses interest in knowing the how-tos of the program, or wants to get involved, I'll walk that road when the time comes. Like one guy at work said, I could be the guy to change the image of MLMs, but we'll see. I'll just be honest, up front and unbiased with people when talking about product/plans; that's what I'd expect back from someone else.

I'm not gonna spend all my $ on getting stock into my hands, sampling products, or on training materials. I'm not gonna sign up for any of the training materials or perks unless I already have enough regular monthly income to support it. The reason people have financial problems is that they forget this is a real business and they're gambling with their own money; they start spending money they don't have yet. I'll just go slow and take the time to build a good and loyal customer base and work with that, finding new customers, showing new product, etc.

+1

Elliot
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-11-2005, 10:14 PM
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good luck with it, I just didn't have the "gusto" to stay with it at the time, if I got into it now, I would probably do better. lemme know how it works out.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-11-2005, 11:14 PM
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what are you selling?

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-11-2005, 11:41 PM
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I'm also involved with Quixtar, part of the Britt group. Like Falcon said, I've read stories of people loosing marriges, bankrupcy and such, but I don't entirley understand how that's truly possible. The only REQUIRED fee is the annual membership, but that's not much different from having a membership to Sam's or Costco. I like the products (XS, Double X, Tolsom, etc), and I'd rather spend the money on them than some of the junk in the stores.

I feel you will get out of it what you put in. In the year or so I've been involved, I haven't gone anywhere, but that's entirely my fault. I haven't done anything between being burnt out from my job on Long Island, then moving to Missouri, I haven't had the time or energy to do anything.

The nice thing about Quixtar, unlike Amway, is you DO NOT HAVE TO KEEP STOCK. EVERYTHING is drop shipped to the person who orders it, plus there are so many other things you can get through it. If you WANT to stock some things such as XS, you can, but that's entirely up to you. I'm going to book my Honeymoon through the Travel Agency that is a partner store.

I feel it has a lot of potential. If people could get where they are with Amway with the two dozen or so products, think what would be possible with everything that can be gotten through Quixtar.

I'm hoping that over the next year or so, I can build up the time, energy and motavation to build it good and hopefully be able to retire in the next 10 or so years. Will that happen? Dunno. I hope I can do it. Until it does happen, I'm going to keep on working.

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-12-2005, 02:21 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NtenseTbird
good luck with it, I just didn't have the "gusto" to stay with it at the time, if I got into it now, I would probably do better. lemme know how it works out.
Yeah I'll let ya know. Like I said, I figure I'll just keep selling product and people who are interested in the program will come outta the woodwork. That way I won't have to use any of the cheesey "hey did you go to blank?" one-liners to strangers
Quote:
Originally Posted by chorizon
what are you selling?
You name it and I can probably get it. Quixtar has their own product line of stuff, plus they carry parts from other manufacturers, as well as contracts with places like Circuit city, partsamerica.com, shucks, sony music, barnes & noble. Anything from energy drinks to fuel additives to clothes to makeup. A lot of the people involved say you can get it cheaper than retail, and in most cases you can, but after shipping and tax, it ends up usually being more. Now, granted, I have no problem with it being more expensive as long as it's a better product, I just don't like people lieing or putting a spin on things... and I'm fairly sure most people would agree with me

Cougar, I like your comments & how you think. I completely agree that Quixtar has potential. It started as Amway, which sold memberships alone for income. Then they started their own products. From there they started carrying products from other manufacturers, and now contracts with other companies. I think given time and the trend of how things are going, Quixtar has potential to be a very mainstream venue in the next few years. I think some of the business practices aren't the most ethical, but I don't plan on following in the same fashion. I'm not gonna lie or become a spin artist for unpopular ideas, how to pickup new affiliates, etc.

+1

Elliot
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-17-2005, 10:46 AM
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http://www.merchantsofdeception.com/
Read the case studies.
http://www.merchantsofdeception.com/casestudies.html

I was a distributor for 6 years. Gained good information that I use in my business today. Great inexpensive seminars (in comparison to outside the business). But would never do it again. Just recently put about $4000.00 worth of tools in the trash.

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-17-2005, 10:58 AM
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do you realize how overpriced EVERYTHING is that they sell? I know they relate how they have a pyramid, and you have a pyramid at work and so on. But do you realize that the money flows in from the bottom of the pyramid in the MLM scheme unlike a normal business where it flows in from an outside source. In a normal business the employees arn't the customers. I know some people have made out well with this sort of thing but you have to have a lot of people under you. I also think the $300 start up fee or whatever is BS, everything SCREAMS pyramid scam, although they claim it's not. I am focusing my attention and energy into more productive things like an engineering education and masters degree. My gut feeling was DO NOT GET INVOLVED, so I didn't. Just think about it, look at the products and see if you really think it's going to work for you. It really surprized me how many very well educated people were at the one meeting I went to......I think it's a step up from the run of the mill pyramid scam but not my cup of tea.

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-17-2005, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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The registration was $53 and change to setup my IBO registration and all that jazz. They say it's not a pyramid scheme, but it looks the same no matter where there's a lotta $ to be made; someone (or some people) will always be at the top. If there wasn't money to be made, there wouldn't be one/a few people at the top making the most. If there wasn't any money at the top, nobody would be there (in ANY instance - typical job, "pyramid scheme," etc). Don't mistake me, I'm not getting involved in this to retire, or make millions, or blah blah blah. All I really wanna do is make enough to pay off the car and zero out my credit balances (I have immaculate credit for my age, just have things to pay off still), and save up some $ to cover living expenses when I head off to college in January.

BTW 95, ever heard of Avon or Mary Kaye? They sell makeup products to women everywhere, who pay the extra $ because they're supporting someone and the products are worth it. Let's compare an 8 oz Red Bull to the Xs energy drink sold through Quixtar... can of RB, $1.50 (or more)'s worth of crap. can of Xs, $2.00 for a healthy and tasty pick me up. It's basically herbs like ginseng and B-vitamins (which help your body convert food to energy) instead of the nasty crap in RB. Oh and btw, Avon and Mary Kaye are both "pyramid schemes" too, but they hardly get any nasty press (my mom's avon lady is awesome btw).

Finally, I used the term MLM - Multi-level Marketing because none of these business models are pyramid schemes. Pyramid schemes are illegal, and no products are actually sold, hence the court actions taken years ago. MLMs are the same structure with the exception that products are sold, typically an adoption done by the company involved for legality purposes, but at the same time a benefit and progression of business, IMO. Granted I'm arguing semantics between the terms MLM and pyramid scheme so moving on...

Rbrown, thanks for the links, I'll do more reading up (information if used right is a good thing). Sorry to hear about having to dump the $4k in the garbage. I don't plan on buying anything or signing up for anything, (ie website) unless I have a regular income from the products to support it already established. I agree that the seminars are useful, and despite whatever their motives are, most of the marketing concepts and ideas and theories they talk about are fundamentally based.

+1

Elliot
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2003 Mustang Cobra radiator, 180* T-stat, Hayden Ultra-cool auxiliary transmission cooler, 13" slotted/cross-drilled front rotors, Dual-Piston PBR calipers Powder Coated Red w/ black logo, 17" 7-spoke Chrome Motegis, JVC Arsenal 5000 HU with touch screen, Kappa 5x7's, Audiobahn 12 pushing 550 rms, FF50 driving lights, FF75 fog lights, xenon 95 air dam, 97 side skirts, rear window tbird decal
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-17-2005, 11:00 PM
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I in no way was poo pooing anything. I think you know that.
If you find the lawsuit that Jeff and Cecelia Musgrove have against The System and Bill and Lisa Bergfeld, read it. We were only 5 below the Bergfelds in the downline. The Musgroves were in a different leg.

I repeat it was a GOOD experience for me. We got to hear Ronald Reagan speaking. Not to mention Dave Lewis, the Visible Changes guy, Zig, etc.

Information we gained in The Business we use today, with great success in our business.

Forgot to mention. I know of a young lady who went Ruby selling. Of course with selling you have to keep selling. But to reach you goal of extra money, it would work.

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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-18-2005, 12:08 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah I know that brown, I was more just throwing out food for thought for 95 and other skeptics. I understand that they'll ALWAYS be some people critcizing what I'm doing, and it's the choice I have to make to either just ignore them, take their thoughts and learn from it, or try to debunk some myths. So far I've talked to a lot of the people I know, read some online hate stories, and used those skepticisms as chances to learn and change my approach/view of things.

I read the case study and there's quite a bit of info in there. I found the portion about the cultist things kinda funny cause that thought has even crossed my mind before. Also the comment about neutralizing someone's ability to think for themselves I laughed at because I refuse to not think for myself, which I think in turn gives me more potential to reach out to customers. I've made it VERY clear to the guys at work that I'm a very low pressure guy, and I don't push someone to buy something and just shoot things truthfully. The guys at work have very much opened up because of that and one of my co-workers has even said that I might end up being the guy who helps change the negative image of the program. As I'm sure you know there are a few things that aren't so hot in the program, so IBOs spin them and try to make the downfall into a positive; that's one of the elements that turn people off, and I flat out refuse to follow in that path.

The whole platinum, ruby, eagle, etc etc thing is kinda tacky, and I can completely see how it's structure is used to keep people pushing onward and upward, and how that could make some people play the #s game (if you talk to a 100 people, 10 might go to a meeting, and 2 might sign up... statistically speaking) and I don't wanna do that either. For risk of sounding like a hypocrite, I hope to go platinum or Ruby on my own with product. I'm totally down with moving lots of volume and if someone is interested in signing up, they'll come out of the woodwork and will be a much more reliable down-line than meeting someone at a gas station with a cheesy one-liner.

I hope to use catalogs and samples to get people interested in product and see some of what's available to buy. When I get enough volume through, I'll setup my web site and start setting my own lower prices to encourage growth and expansion. Anywho, thanks for the info rbrown, I'm glad to hear things went well for you. It's nice to hear that from someone who isn't personally biased from my group

+1

Elliot
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2003 Mustang Cobra radiator, 180* T-stat, Hayden Ultra-cool auxiliary transmission cooler, 13" slotted/cross-drilled front rotors, Dual-Piston PBR calipers Powder Coated Red w/ black logo, 17" 7-spoke Chrome Motegis, JVC Arsenal 5000 HU with touch screen, Kappa 5x7's, Audiobahn 12 pushing 550 rms, FF50 driving lights, FF75 fog lights, xenon 95 air dam, 97 side skirts, rear window tbird decal
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