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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-13-2005, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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GM bankcruptcy

So I heard that GM was on the verge of filing Banckruptcy. I don't know if it is true but this is what I got.

The employee discount was suppossed to help them out of a ditch. Only they are just now seeing that it didn't really help them as much as it hurt them.

Anybody know anything.

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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-13-2005, 11:51 AM
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http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/10/news...00/gm_outlook/

Basically Delphi forced this. Delphi can't afford to pay retirement benefits anymore, and according to the contracts GM signed when it spun Delphi off, GM is responsible now for that.

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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-13-2005, 11:55 AM
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One of my professors mentioned that too. I'd also heard Delphi filed for Chapter 11 as well (I think chapter 11 gives you protection from the creditors). I would've thought I would've heard something on the news about it.

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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-13-2005, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cougar_guy04
I would've thought I would've heard something on the news about it.
It was all over local and national news... Then again it was a weekend so not many people care about the news on saturdays.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/08/news...rupt/index.htm

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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-13-2005, 12:02 PM
Who is John Galt?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowDragon
It was all over local and national news... Then again it was a weekend so not many people care about the news on saturdays.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/08/news...rupt/index.htm
That's what I get for paying attention to international news instead of the local stuff . . . stinkin' poli sci class.

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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-13-2005, 12:14 PM
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Good.

I hope they go down. I hate GM.

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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-13-2005, 12:47 PM
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While you may not like GM losing that many jobs would kill our economy

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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-13-2005, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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Its not just the losing of the jobs that would kill the economy. I mean we would then be transfering much more of our products outside of the economy.

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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-13-2005, 01:38 PM
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Agreed.

We have been having quite a debate over this here

http://www.ffcobra.com/ubb/ultimateb.../t/006584.html

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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-13-2005, 05:08 PM
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Real ignorant post...

Well if they did go under you don't care about the people that work there either? Real class dude, maybe if you got canned you might have a little more compassion.

Have a nice day.

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Good.

I hope they go down. I hate GM.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-13-2005, 05:41 PM
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Its really much bigger than some people think.

Its pretty crazy, two weeks ago we were sitting at the lunch table at work, talking about delphi, one of the guys father worked there, and he was worried about the company taking a tumble. Sure enough they went belly up like a week later.

Its not about just companies, its about manufacturing goods in general in the united states. Companies are packing up shop and moving overseas because they can cut their expenses in half if not more. I never really thought about it much, but now that I sat down with a couple of guys with economics majors it really sunk in.

China is on a slow grow, but eventually they will be the most powerful country in the world, its only a matter of time.

Quite a few of my friends parents are going to be out of jobs due to delphi closing up shop, and you think about it, entire cities rely on these jobs, and entire cities of people will be out of work, its going to do a huge number on our economy as a whole.

Its headline news here in buffalo, ny, and rochester, ny. We have delphi plants all over here, not to mention the tonawnada gm engine plant, that makes the v6 gm motors, and corvette motors i beleive.

A friend of mine was telling me (he's a few years older than I) that when he was in highschool there was a school to work program, where he would take classes at school basically training him to do a job at delphi, and he would get a job at delphi at the end of the course.

There are tons of schools that were feeding the plant non stop, so its such a huge loss its mindblowing.

This area is in deep deep trouble.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-13-2005, 06:56 PM
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I was told they were doing good due to the employee pricing thing. Where I worked in the summer they do the engine cradles and rear twist ales for the cobalt, the saturn ion, and the HHR. Everyone there worked 60 hours a week (max you can legally work here) all summer long because they told us that GM couldnt keep up with all their customers. Guess that's not the case
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-13-2005, 07:51 PM
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Its really scary how few people on the west coast drive domestics. I get excited if i see three domestics (including my car) at a light. The other problem besides shrinking market share is rising health care costs. How is it that UAW union members are the only ones in America with a $2 copay? My friends mom has insurance through Ford (her husband is a salaried supervisor at the Livonia, MI transmission plant) and when she was hospitilized for dizzyness/nausa a few weeks ago, her health care didnt even cover it. The unions have got to give a little, or there going to end up losing everything. We will see how cozy these yuppies driving toyotas are if ford or gm ever go under. we will all be screwing the pooch on that one, heck it will even hurt the japanese companies, after all whos technology will they steal then?
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-13-2005, 11:40 PM
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What funny is that Toyota, Honda, and even Hyundai are building more and more cars here whereas GM, Chysler (who just announced that some minivans will be built in China), and Ford are building more and more overseas. Im an econ major myself and it has been a topic in many classes about where the economy may be in the next few years. It is scary. But what can really be done? If they (domestics) build products here, the cars prices will be priced to high to cover cost and then they cannot compete with these so called foreign manufactures. Toyota builds the Camry near here and the Tundra is built just north of my home town. The employees say although it is hard work, they are a good company to work for.

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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-14-2005, 12:06 AM
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Its true that the foreign brands have been assembling more of their cars here, but it would be interesting to see what percentage of the content is actually made here, not just shipped over and put togethor. One also has to look at how those working at toyota/hyundai etc plants are paid. Up until very recently, someone working on the line at ford or gm would start out at about $18 an hour, with truely sick benefits. I would wager someone at a hynduai plant starts out at about 12 bucks an hour, if that. you are definately right about the domestics outsourcing more and more- the fusion is going to built entirely in mexico.
sigh this topic is really distressing for me, obviously the world is not going to end, and i doubt ford or gm is going to go out of business anytime soon, but they really need to get there acts togethor. The really scary question is; where is the U.S. going to be without its once mighty manufacturing capacity? after all, the reason the us rose to be a superpower during ww2 wasnt that we made better stuff, just more of it.
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-14-2005, 01:22 AM
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in michigan here we are already start feeling the pain of the job loss insecurity now.

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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-14-2005, 02:16 AM
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The problem is that the majority of americans expect to make $$$$$. The Chinese and other emerging markets have thousands of people begging to work for ¢.

Americans are overpaid. It's not the fault of the government or labor unions. The problem is deep in our culture. Look at top CEOs or pro athletes.

Americans are also snooty. I know a couple people who would rather not work at all then get a job they feel is "beneath them".




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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-14-2005, 03:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenBird
The problem is that the majority of americans expect to make $$$$$. The Chinese and other emerging markets have thousands of people begging to work for ¢.

Americans are overpaid. It's not the fault of the government or labor unions. The problem is deep in our culture. Look at top CEOs or pro athletes.

Americans are also snooty. I know a couple people who would rather not work at all then get a job they feel is "beneath them".
i guess that puts me in the same group as the chinese, as i will work for money. doesnt really matter how much it is it beats not making any money at all. yes i would like to make enough money that i dont have to work after i turn 35 but i know that wont happen. so ill just keep working wherever i can get a job.

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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-14-2005, 08:34 AM
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This even affects people way up here. Delphi operates a winter test track (you know all those pictures in "Car and Driver" where they're power sliding cars on the ice? Yup.) near here, and there's a big deal about whether they're going to keep it or not. They're renting that land for a good chunk of change, and if they leave, that's gonna kill my county's budget and probably force another police layoff or something.
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-14-2005, 04:44 PM
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You guys really don't know that half of what is going on at Delphi. Just pieces or rederick that you have heard.

I deal directly with Delphi. They are in the company that I work for, every day. They filled Chapter 11 which protects them while they attempt to restructure. Look at KMart, they filled Chapter 11 and now they own Sears.

The average pay-roll in the Union based Delphi is around $50.00 per hour. When you look at the number of employees that they have, you CANNOT justify paying a janitor $30.00 an hour to sweep the floor.

The Union was designed to protect your job, to get you the BEST benefits that you can get and to get you fair pay wages. Not to hold the company hostage.

Delphi is making us turn to programs like Six Sigma in order to reduce our costs. In turn we can reduce the cost of the parts they are buying. Once they get things worked out in the courts I'm sure you'll see then turn things around.

Look at Ford and Visteon.

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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-14-2005, 06:01 PM
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man its amazing how much sh*t they own too. we got hummer, cadilac, chevy, saturn. i mean right there you got your offroad vehicles your luxury cars your good gas car and of course the vette.

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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-14-2005, 06:06 PM
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-14-2005, 06:47 PM
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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-14-2005, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
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Six Sigma is actually a very good thing for them to adapt.

Since they filed Chapter 11 aren't they protected from the labor union also. IFRC that was one of the big discussions about United and them being able to go below the Union floor pay. Right?

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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-15-2005, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Train
Look at Ford and Visteon.

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visteon is a mess. salaried employees are getting screwed there, and they havent turned a profit since they spun off of ford. There also closing a bunch of plants in michigan.
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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-15-2005, 12:21 AM
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I tried calling Delphi for an interview about the future of our local test track. They're pretty tight lipped about the whole thing right now.
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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-15-2005, 09:40 PM
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The big picture here is health care. That's whats killing GM. And its not even the healthcare of the current employees, but the care of all the retirees. I know that it sucks to hear this, but they (old people) are just living alot longer than what GM (or anyone else for that matter) ever planned. Ford is in the same boat. The reason that Honda and Toyota do so well is because the governments over there take care of their people. They don't have the overhead.

There are only 2 remedies to this problem. One, our government gets there act together and steps in creating a nationalized healthcare system. *NOT HAPPENING*. or Two Ford and GM get together and create a partnership and get into the healthcare business. *IDEA!

Not to create a rant, but the current healthcare system is what is killing this country. It's the same reason that doctors are dropping out of work because they can't afford the insurance. These companies are to gready. Ford and GM should recognize that they are two of the nations largest consumers and if that leverage doesn't do anything for them then they have every right to fight back and make things better for everyone.
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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-16-2005, 10:00 PM
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Too much political crap stirring from this whole issue. This one is done.

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