MM&FF MN12 vs Fox shootout.... - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-10-2005, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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MM&FF MN12 vs Fox shootout....

Quote:
Gentlemen,

We have decided to postpone the shootout until next year, as seven of the
nine people selected have backed out due to various reasons, most of which
had nothing to due with the relatively short notice of the event. It mostly
came down to bad timing and while we did come up with four well-rounded
contestants after including some of our alternates, we feel the TC, SC,
Thunderbird and Cougar group would be best served by scheduling the shootout
sometime in March or April of 2006, when we could organize the event a
little better and hopefully produce a bumper crop of street beasts for the
article.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused, but we want you
guys to be well-represented and feel this is the best option. Those who were
chosen for this event will be automatically included next year, while we
hope to also receive a few more entries from those who didn't hear about the
event, or couldn't make it because their cars were down. That being said, I
will be saving the emails from those who were selected and will contact them
when the event has been rescheduled. We will also be hitting the website
forums and will announce the time of entry submission in the Horse's Mouth
news column, which is where we normally make note of shootouts.

Thank You,

Steve

Steve Baur
Associate Editor
Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords Magazine

201-712-9300 ext. 627
[email protected]
Fax 201-712-9899

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365 W. Passaic St.
Rochelle Park, NJ 07662
so now you all have more time to get your stuff together and send your info to steve at mmff.

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post #2 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-10-2005, 11:36 AM
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Hmmmm, sounds like the makings of a TCCoA nationals event in the making.

Lord knows the MN12 platform needs all the "press" it can get vs. the Fox platform!!

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post #3 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-10-2005, 11:40 AM
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Might have to finish my 408 project and see what's going on. Not sure what kind of competition this is, but I should be competitive in atleast the drag portion.

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post #4 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-10-2005, 11:41 AM
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Since when does Muscle Mustang and More Mustang magazine recognize another Ford product.

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post #5 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-10-2005, 01:50 PM
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[dons flame retardant suit] MN-12's vs. Foxes??? on a track?? no contest!!! [/puts on extra coat of fire-proof foam]

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post #6 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-10-2005, 02:10 PM
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Perfect. I had to deny participation because the date was just too close to finals for me to miss any classes. Now I have plenty of time to prepare and hopefully give a good showing for the MN12's. Already ordered some 50# injectors and SCT MAF last week. Next I'll be getting a set of Kook's and might have to think about a cage. I'll up the boost for the shootout and hopefully the trans and rear will hold together. I'm looking forward to meeting and racing with you guys.

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post #7 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-11-2005, 07:59 PM
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I bet they'll like my reply.
I sent in an email asking about what kind of rules would be in place,and for a bit more info, and the next thing I hear-they've picked their participants. LOL..so organized.
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post #8 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-11-2005, 09:29 PM
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Well then maybe my 408 won't be competing. Just as well, I had been considering a 427(4.125, 4) DART conversion but was putting it on hold to finish the car as is for this competition. Might have to reconsider now.

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post #9 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-11-2005, 10:00 PM
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Johnny,
So was that reply that went to 50 people really from you or was that BS?
Waiting for you reply before I say more.
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post #10 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-12-2005, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack K
Johnny,
So was that reply that went to 50 people really from you or was that BS?
Waiting for you reply before I say more.
Yes,it was.
And honestly,I really don't care if it pisses them off or not.
JL

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post #11 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-12-2005, 09:33 AM
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While the location of E-town leaves a lot to be desired when considering racers from across the country, I think we all know that it is MM&FF's home track and is where they have most of their shootouts. Neither of us can say we are surprised by that location. And on that note, it seems obvious that they tried to select cars from the eastern seaboard to help with travel to and from the shootout. Surely some of the boards fastest cars can be excluded when only looking at a certain part of the country, but it is hardly anything new.
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post #12 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-12-2005, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack K
While the location of E-town leaves a lot to be desired when considering racers from across the country, I think we all know that it is MM&FF's home track and is where they have most of their shootouts. Neither of us can say we are surprised by that location. And on that note, it seems obvious that they tried to select cars from the eastern seaboard to help with travel to and from the shootout. Surely some of the boards fastest cars can be excluded when only looking at a certain part of the country, but it is hardly anything new.
Something everybody here needs to understand.
MM&FF cares nothing about your cars, about you, or about anything other than sales of their magazine. They regularly screw up even the most elementary articles with blatantly wrong information, and don't seem to care whether people can see it or not. They also don't seem to care that people can see who's product they're biased toward when they "review" an item or test it. Ever seen an article that told you the real truth about a product? Not when the vendors that are advertising in the magazine are the vendors that are in the tests.
I really don't care who got selected for this shootout, and if they'd asked me I would have told them to stick it-I'll not be a playtoy for them to jerk around like some of the rest of you are seemingly begging to be.
If that's what you want-go for it. I'm not going to deal with the hassles, or the misspelled names, wrong information about the "featured" cars, and other various crap I've seen out of that pathetic excuse of a magazine in the last few years.
JL

Oh yeah..I sent another email out to the entire email list-somebody's decided to be cute and signed me up for alot of spam mail. I've got a few IP addresses from the abuse personnel ,and will soon have a good idea on who it was.
They also forget-I've also got their email address,and can have alot of fun with them too.

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post #13 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-13-2005, 09:16 PM
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YES!! I was pissed that 1) very short notice, couldn't get off from work, and 2) my car ain't done yet. But now it'll have the autorotor on in time for the shootout next year. sweeeeet.

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post #14 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 01:03 PM
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Please let me respond to some of Johnny's comments.

"Something everybody here needs to understand. MM&FF cares nothing about your cars, about you, or about anything other than sales of their magazine."

This is quite the false statement. The people who actually write the articles, i.e. editors like myself, write them because they're interesting and for no other reason. We're not writers because we like making our stockholders money. We write because we enjoy the hobby as much as the next guy and want to write about neat and interesting things happening in the industry.

"They regularly screw up even the most elementary articles with blatantly wrong information, and don't seem to care whether people can see it or not."

Every publication makes errors. Feel free to illustrate the "regular screw ups."

"They also don't seem to care that people can see who's product they're biased toward when they "review" an item or test it. Ever seen an article that told you the real truth about a product? Not when the vendors that are advertising in the magazine are the vendors that are in the tests."

We're honest about our evaluations and if the product doesn't perform, we say so or don't print the article. The only magazine that you'll find that will come out and blatantly slam products is consumer reports and that's because they buy everything.

"I really don't care who got selected for this shootout, and if they'd asked me I would have told them to stick it-I'll not be a playtoy for them to jerk around like some of the rest of you are seemingly begging to be."

You sent us your submission. Not the other way around. Don't slight others for doing something that they want to do. Why you would want to alienate yourself and stab your fellow T-Bird owners with that last sentence is beyond my comprehension.

As for the mass email thing, this is the first time anyone has had to say about it in the four years i've been doing this. Probably because those whom i've emailed were all very friendly and looking to get to know one another better and find out who's been selected to attend the event. I'll make it a point not to do it in the future.

With regard to the event coverage, i think you may be reading into it a bit too much. Someone who gives another a win, at least as we write it, is handing them an automatic victory, something that could not be guaranteed if both cars were competing. Maybe we could clarify that from now on, but frankly, you're the only one who has ever complained about it and thought it to be a derogatory comment.

I assure you no one on our staff treated you like an outsider at the Ennis event, least of all because you didn't have a Mustang. We have no reason to do so and to say that we favor Mustangs is ridiculous. Sometimes we don't get to meet with all of the winners. It happens. That doesn't mean that you can't come up to us and introduce yourself. People do it all the time and we're thankful for it. Though Mustang owners constitue the majority of our readers, we like fast cars and 12-second NA T-birds certainly qualify. It is our job to offer readers a glimpse of other fast Fords, which is why we feature other FLM makes and models and hold shootouts for such.

I hope one day you can find happiness in a hobby that is enjoyable to most of the people that are in it. I don't think i've ever read anything positive from you and if i was as negative, angry and generally unhappy as you are, i'd be completely gray and probably one artery short of a heart attack. Life is too short to have nothing good to say.

Now onto the shootout business. I imagine the shootout will occur sometime in late March as the track does not open until then. We have to see what the FFW, NMRA and WFC schedules look like as well. I don't believe i posted any rules because the shootout idea was something the editor mentioned in response to mail that we received. I started getting submissions and we basically chose the fastest, well-rounded group from the entries. Right now, its looking like a T-Bird/Cougar shootout across all models with the only rules being that the cars and drivers must have all appropriate safety equipment for their elapsed times, and the vehicles must not exceed 94 decibels in the burnout box, which generally means no bullett-style mufflers. Obviously we would like to try and keep the cars close to their original states, meaning stock-type transmissions and engines. Stuffing a 600-cube big block in doesn't really seem right for THIS shootout. Luxobarge maybe. I'll be back when we get closer to the shootout with more specific information.

I imagine Mr. Langton acts mostly alone in his tirades, but MM&FF does enjoy all Ford/Lincoln/ Mercury products. We did have Mark VII and Granada project cars after all, not to mention our Lightning and Focus projects. And i was nearly into a T-Bird until a friend made me an offer on his Cobra that i couldn't refuse.

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post #15 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
don't print the article.
If something doesn't work I would want you to print the article. It would give you more credit as a tester.

JL does win competitions as the underdog against mustangs. Why if he sent in his application wouldn't you pick him. He is one of the fastest NA Thunderbirds out of the group. It doesn't make sense to not select him. I don't know the list of competitors. But, I can think of several people that I would want to represent my choice in car. One of them was not selected for sure.

When I read the article it did look like a slam. IIRC it was mostly in the way that it was worded. I don't rember a mention of who he knocked out of the competition who did not just give him a pass.

I have to say that I am not a regular reader of the MM&FF magazine mainly because I do not like the articles. Every once and a while there will be a good article that I have heard about and have to read.

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post #16 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 01:30 PM
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Steve,

I won't discuss your replies to Johnny, as I do not have the facts. But I have to address one thing that you mentioned twice. And that is the "and to say that we favor Mustangs is ridiculous" and "but MM&FF does enjoy all Ford/Lincoln/ Mercury products" remarks.

For years I subscribed to MM&FF's. But I finally cancelled my subscription due to it being blatantly biased toward the Mustang crowd. And I owned Mustangs at the time (which was in the late 80's early 90's so things may have changed).

In my humble opinion, and I think in many other Ford owner’s opinions MM&FF is severely biased to the Mustang crowd. I think we all understand and accept that you are in business to sell magazines and the “market” is definitely larger for the Mustang crowd, but to say that you do not favor the Mustangs just is not a correct statement.

I’m just passing this along as a previous subscriber that has not bought a copy of MM&FF in years due to the Mustang bias.

BUT good luck with the shootout and I think it is a great idea!!!

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post #17 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 04:21 PM
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Taken in the context it was written, my statement is valid. My point concerning favoritism was in regard to the actual cars winning the race in the event coverage and not in the content of the magazine in general. We would not "slam" a winner or any racer for that matter because of the car they drove. That would be pretty petty and juvenile.

Chuck Samuels Escort runs 221mph in the quarter. Do we make fun of him or think any less because he has an Escort or a Cougar as some of the other racers have, absolutely not. I myself find it a bit odd that Fun Ford allows T-Birds to run in a class called Street Stang, but that's a question that best directed to the Fun Ford staff. I certainly don't have anything against a racer who follows the rules.

As for the magazine content, the majority of our readers want to read about Mustangs so there is a lot of Mustang stuff in there. Most of the tech articles can be applied to other makes and models and we run as many model-specific tech article as we can, e.g. Lightning, turbo 4 tech. Feature-wise, we don't come across many vehicles that are on par with the Mustangs we feature. We're always looking, trust me. I scoped out Scott Levine's Mark VIII in Atlanta a couple of years ago and wanted to shoot it for a feature, but we were already stacked that weekend, so we invited him up for our Luxobarge shootout where he won, and got his car in the mag. Same with Mike Siska.

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post #18 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboSteve

Every publication makes errors. Feel free to illustrate the "regular screw ups."

Let me try to answer this, from a perspective of the people who actually own these cars. I also want to state up front that I don't have any problem or concern of any type with this, as I'm really not interested in the magazine anyway, I'm simply responding to your request to illustrate.



First, I win Street Stang at Ennis 04. Your magazine failed to even include this class in your coverage. Information was only published later in a small "dept of corrections". A comment there stated I won in "of all things, a '96 Thunderbird". Some would take that comment as pointing it out to be unusual - I did myself. But, some would take it as negative, as if it somehow shouldn't be possible, etc. Most people here took it as the latter.

Second, Johnny wins Street Stang at Houston 05. The caption there was more about three participants in a previous shootout you held than it was about Johnny winning. I would expect that coverage of a race would be just that - coverage of the race and the winners, not blather about a non related, non open competition event run by the magazine itself. Then it goes on to make a comment about "giving the win to Langton". That really makes me wonder if the person who wrote this was even there, as Johnny's car was the one car that day cranking out 50's with regularity while the others either couldn't run the number or broke out. I tuned my *** off to make that car run 50s that day, Johnny drove good, and he wasn't "given" anything.

I know there will be upcoming coverage in your magazine of Ennis 05, and we'll see how you do there. But to date, when regarding coverage of these cars in FFW competition, the "regular screw ups" comment seems to be accurate.



As for the rest of you reading, as you know I own a Lightning, a Mustang, and this Thunderbird, all of which have run pretty well in competition at one time or another, and look good doing it. I have no interest in reading these rags, being included in any coverage, or participating in the shootouts, so I don't. It's that simple - I vote with my wallet, and you can do the same. The days of the print media are all but over anyway - online coverage is more up to date, more comprehensive, and more diverse. If it wasn't for being required to get the NHRA and IHRA rags as a licensed driver, I wouldn't even get them. Steve and others in the print media probably don't care for comments like that, but I'm only being honest, that is the way I see it from down here in the Lone Star.

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post #19 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
If something doesn't work I would want you to print the article. It would give you more credit as a tester.
i agree, if somethings crap then print that its crap. just not printing an article about it isnt good enough. i also agree that all these magazines are biased towards mustangs. i used to subscribe to some of them but just got turned off by the lack of coverage given to other platforms. i love all fords, not just mustangs.
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post #20 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 07:58 PM
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Not that I want to comment, but I have to. Kdanner said it best, and I can't top that...HOWEVER, I totally agree with him... Saying "of all things, a '96 Thunderbird", that, to me, is a slam against the MN12 platform. I just recently (2 weeks ago) cancelled my subscription. You state "Most of the tech articles can be applied to other makes and models and we run as many model-specific tech article as we can, e.g. Lightning, turbo 4 tech." You proved the point... where did you mention a mod for an MN12????

MN12s are the following:

1) a GREAT car
2) similar to the mustang, but not as much as one thinks
3) not NEARLY as easy to modify as a mustang is
4) severily under-estimated when it comes to performance capabilities as Kdanner and JL have proved...Give credit where credit is due...and not in a "we screwed up" column.

As you can see here, there are a lot of Tbird/MN12 guys that want to learn and make thier car better....unfortunatly, this forum is the only resource they have (for the most part). Turbo on a stang???....easy....Turbo on a Tbird/MN12...write an article and then I will be impressed......................................... ........

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post #21 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 09:17 PM
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well i think they need to choose better words. when they write things about mn12's because we have many cars that are better than stangs. To play down or act if when we win it's a mistake.I buy there mag regularly but we deserve fair coverage. I would kill to have a bird as fast as kdanner and johnny.I don't like to bash people but [email protected] owe them and apology.
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post #22 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 09:19 PM
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I would be honored if people like them represented out beloved bird.
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post #23 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 09:30 PM
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It's great that there doing the shoot out.It would be just plain nice if they would give us alittle credit for building what we love. That's it
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post #24 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-16-2005, 08:12 AM
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What happened to my post? Is this one of those nazi sites where if they don't agree with the message I am sending you delete it?

Why is everyone whining? Seriously? A magazine gives us coverage for a shootout and you bash them. I think most of you have your panties on too tight. Its pretty obvious that MM&FF was making a joke when they made a comment about a T-Bird winning a class called Street 'Stang. Nothing that is worth getting all upset about

You really think it is in your best interests to bash a magazine that has supported this sport for so long? While I agree I would like to see more T-Bird covereage, we will never see covereage on par with that of Mustangs. To ask for that is plain ridiculous! It makes no sense financially to dedicate that much of the magazine to Thunderbirds. The Mustang is Ford's bread and butter sports/muscle car. I do think there are enough show quality fast Thunderbirds to dedicate 1 magazine a year to coverage of them.

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post #25 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-16-2005, 08:20 AM
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What happened to my post? Is this one of those nazi sites where if they don't agree with the message I am sending you delete it?
What are you talking about?

There has not been a single post edited or deleted by a moderator in this thread.

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post #26 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-16-2005, 08:22 AM
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Why is my post count 2 and there is only 1 listed for me? I made a nice long post last night about this, and its gone.
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post #27 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-16-2005, 09:31 AM
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Why is my post count 2 and there is only 1 listed for me? I made a nice long post last night about this, and its gone.
My bad...I spoke too soon, I didn't look in the trash bin. I'm not sure who did that.

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post #28 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-16-2005, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BADSBRD
You really think it is in your best interests to bash a magazine that has supported this sport for so long?
I won't support a magazine that inflates the manufactures claim because they want their business. Nor do I support a magazine that writes blatantly false information. Just because its a magazine about mustangs, lightning, focus and the occasional "other fords" means I HAVE to support them? Screw that. Who cares how long they "supported this sport" there is always another trash rag to take its place.

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ I like intakes that whine \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_

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post #29 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-16-2005, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BADSBRD
What happened to my post? Is this one of those nazi sites where if they don't agree with the message I am sending you delete it?
It was probably deleted because your message was condensending. You could have wrote what you did without telling everyone "they whine like a bunch of women". Way to win people over to your point.

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post #30 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-16-2005, 10:09 AM
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...makes me long for the debut issue of "Everything But Mustangs Magazine."
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