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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-16-2005, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
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what to think about union...

I have some idea's I want some opinions on.

The dealership I work at is having a private union vote soon. Im new to working for a dealership let alone union anything. From what I understand from the union would take care of us employees better than our package now. But Im worried about how much it will take out of my check. As it is Im doing side jobs on top of 45 hours a week to keep money flowing correctly.

Im sure there are some of you out there that can give me some insight to this "Union or not union" matter.

any info would be great.

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-16-2005, 09:16 PM
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IMO,

Union = unneeded bureaucracy, and lots of it.

If they unionized my job I would quite.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-16-2005, 09:43 PM
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I'm in a union and the only complaint I have is the $23 a month they take out of my paycheck. Because of the union I went from a $13.00/hour job to a lot more than $13 an hour... unions protect, but they also are a pain in the *** to work with.

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-16-2005, 10:59 PM
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Ive had a few jobs but two that are really good comparisons are the two I worked in shipping. First was non-union; pay was decent, but the company treated everyone who worked there like ****. No benefits, mandatory OT (non-official of course) and I was in school on top of the 10 hour shifts mon-fri. Open your mouth and bye.

Second place was unionized, one of the biggest in the country. Pay was about the same as the previous position, full benefits at no cost to us with 100% coverage for everything you can imagine. We also got full wage long-term disability for $6 a month. Dues were $20 a month. We could choose 4 or 5 day weeks, very good working conditions (the company did not want to piss off the union, very powerful) Any problems that we had were dealt with with no hassle by the shop rep.

For me the union was a great thing to have, but it all comes down to the union itself.

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-20-2005, 10:36 AM
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Unions are there to make money, period, their second
priority is to help you, but only if it doesn't cut into their
profits too much. If your employer is reasonable there's no
need for a union.

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-20-2005, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott
Unions are there to make money, period, their second
priority is to help you, but only if it doesn't cut into their
profits too much. If your employer is reasonable there's no
need for a union.
IF YOUR EMPLOYER IS REASONABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, but I live in reality....... I'm A local 134 electrician in Chicago..Yes union dues and the political garbage stinks, but I get paid well and have awesome benefits and amazing health benefits...Oh yeah my retirement plan is also doing very well.. I'm only 27.. In the union 9 years now and have used the unions services a few times... Like when I got hurt out of work and was out for a month or so and got checks for disability... And numerous problems with my employer trying to screw us employees..Surprising the union came through... I give a little to the union and get a lot in return... I HAVE NEVER BEEN TO ONE UNION MEETING..... Just get drunk and yell...Hell I can do that at home...

You can go as fast as your money will let you
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-20-2005, 04:45 PM
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Well I can't argue with that. I own a union shop and the only reason
it's a union shop is we do work on other union job sites so we have to be.

When we went union nothing changed. The pay has always been on par with
union shops as have the benefits. Bottom line, the guys took a pay cut
because now they pay union dues.

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue LS
, full benefits at no cost to us .

No, you paid for those benefits..
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 06:38 PM
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Is the union the IAM? If so, they are the only ones that have ever done anything for dealership techs. Working at a dealership sucks ***. You are treated like garbage, totally disposable. The IAM is the one organization that stands up for these guys. There is no "resonable employer" when it comes to dealerships. Anybody who has never worked for one has no idea how bad those guys get screwed daily.

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 07:49 PM
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I'm a local 479 Union Electrician.
I see what I have fo tools to work with, benefits and pay, and I see what the non-union electricians have.
I'll take mine-even with the union BS anyday of the week.
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
No, you paid for those benefits..
Maybe if we gave up some of the benefits we could have gotten a higher wage. But, in this case my pay was above what non-union shops paid for the same work. Most of the guys there were making at least 1.50 more an hour than at their previous employer. In this case we got full benefits with no deductions and a higher wage.

"She aint a Cadillac and she aint a Rolls, but there aint nothin wrong with the radio"

Of course everyone loves a hard worker, they do all the work!

90 LS - gone damn city drivers
93 Explorer XL 2dr 4x4 - totalled does anyone in that f*ckin city know how to drive

OK, that was twice in 6 months, red means STOP
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 10:34 PM
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Need to realize going to get regionlized views; in general Yankees view them as the best thing since slice bread and Southners see them as the devil.

IMO unions are only need if conditions are bad. While the worker does get some benefits the comsumer ends up paying the cost. Example: GM fireing 9000 factory workers making an aver of ~$25/hr for line work. Now compare that to where I work <$10 for line work. Now I see no problem for a good wage for skilled labor but not for unskilled. Yes we might make less but DKM is in much better financial shape than GM.

Now my question for those Electristions (since yall have responded) if conditions are bad without the Union why not form you own company?

If all else fails get a bigger hammer!

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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 10:48 PM
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It depends on the copany mainly, us union workers got treated very well. The non-union workers who did the auditing got treated like **** and paid less.

"She aint a Cadillac and she aint a Rolls, but there aint nothin wrong with the radio"

Of course everyone loves a hard worker, they do all the work!

90 LS - gone damn city drivers
93 Explorer XL 2dr 4x4 - totalled does anyone in that f*ckin city know how to drive

OK, that was twice in 6 months, red means STOP
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 04:40 PM
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Your employer needs a person to fill a position... The total cost to the employer would cost say 10000 dollars a year. Remember this is to make it easy to understand...

Your benefits cost the employer 2000 a year. You as the employee get the 8K leftover. Now if you pay union dues and get insurance through the union your dues offset the cost. There is no free ride and to think you don't pay is not true.

Just because you get a higher wage doesn't mean you don't pay. The cost of benefits are included in your position. Just because you may or may not see them doesn't mean it is a freebie.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue LS
Maybe if we gave up some of the benefits we could have gotten a higher wage. But, in this case my pay was above what non-union shops paid for the same work. Most of the guys there were making at least 1.50 more an hour than at their previous employer. In this case we got full benefits with no deductions and a higher wage.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 05:12 PM
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All Im saying is with the union we got much better pay and full benefits. Similar places with no union didnt get anywhere near what we did.

"She aint a Cadillac and she aint a Rolls, but there aint nothin wrong with the radio"

Of course everyone loves a hard worker, they do all the work!

90 LS - gone damn city drivers
93 Explorer XL 2dr 4x4 - totalled does anyone in that f*ckin city know how to drive

OK, that was twice in 6 months, red means STOP
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 05:38 PM
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 07:43 PM
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agree with kd , the unions up here in the automotive world are horrible. the electrical unions really seem to help, but as far as auto, they really suck and the dealerships suck too

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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy Metal
Your employer needs a person to fill a position... The total cost to the employer would cost say 10000 dollars a year. Remember this is to make it easy to understand...

Your benefits cost the employer 2000 a year. You as the employee get the 8K leftover. Now if you pay union dues and get insurance through the union your dues offset the cost. There is no free ride and to think you don't pay is not true.

Just because you get a higher wage doesn't mean you don't pay. The cost of benefits are included in your position. Just because you may or may not see them doesn't mean it is a freebie.
That's about right. I pay my guys $25.60 per hour but my real cost
with pension extended health, medical, is more like $37. Then there's workers
comp but I won't get into that.

97 LX sport 4.6
T-45 5 speed, 3.73 with track lock; PI heads, 02 MAF, #24 injectors,190 fuel pump,JBAs, 75mm TB. ect,ect.; Aluminium drive shaft. 13" PBR Brakes; Dennis chip, lowered with solid sway bar bushings and hiem joints; console mounted E brake WITH the cup holders; C&l Plenum, Steeda U/D; VERY big radiator; 2.5" duals, Magnaflows;B&M ripper shifter; bla..bla...bla...

Lincoln MKVIII 93.........sweet ride.
Bag-less, lowered.
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott
That's about right. I pay my guys $25.60 per hour but my real cost
with pension extended health, medical, is more like $37. Then there's workers
comp but I won't get into that.
My wage rate on my check is ~ $23/hr.
My insurance, international pension, anuuity, and local pension are a large chunk of my total wage package. This is all on top of my $23/hr.
I drive a farily nice 2001 F150 back and forth to work, and use a company gas card to fuel it up. I drive 45 miles one-way to work everyday. I also consider this to be a benefit-albeit an "unoficial" one. I have a large variety of company provided tools that are in good working condition to do my job with.
Non-union electricians in my area average $15/hr with NO benefits whatsoever unless they want to purchase them out of their $15/hr. They have NO company issued tools,and if they do they're typically poor or unsafe condition,and are the absolute minimum to do the job with. 90% or more of them drive their own trucks to work with no compensation from the company for fuel or mileage.
It's a no-brainer in my situation,but may not be for others.
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 08:40 PM
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I hear what you are saying JL. It's just a shame that some
employers treat their employees like crap, if they didn't there
would be no reason for unions.

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T-45 5 speed, 3.73 with track lock; PI heads, 02 MAF, #24 injectors,190 fuel pump,JBAs, 75mm TB. ect,ect.; Aluminium drive shaft. 13" PBR Brakes; Dennis chip, lowered with solid sway bar bushings and hiem joints; console mounted E brake WITH the cup holders; C&l Plenum, Steeda U/D; VERY big radiator; 2.5" duals, Magnaflows;B&M ripper shifter; bla..bla...bla...

Lincoln MKVIII 93.........sweet ride.
Bag-less, lowered.
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post #21 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
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Good to see the opinions... Over all though... I think I decided that the union isnt for our dealership. Our pay is good, You move up QUICK. And we get Semi-ok benifits. And thats only because it stays the same price no matter what you make. I love my job and am doing very well there, Im looking to hopfully be promoted as soon as my 90 days are up. Im already doing TSBs and PDIs on lax time... I hope I can take that as a sign.

Thanks for the input guys... But over all I think My work takes good care of us in the service department.

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post #22 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 09:59 PM
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Sounds like your doin good without. If you got a good thing goin the way it is then dont mess with it.

"She aint a Cadillac and she aint a Rolls, but there aint nothin wrong with the radio"

Of course everyone loves a hard worker, they do all the work!

90 LS - gone damn city drivers
93 Explorer XL 2dr 4x4 - totalled does anyone in that f*ckin city know how to drive

OK, that was twice in 6 months, red means STOP
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