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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-31-2006, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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Higher octane = higher cost... why is that?

I was just thinking about it today and I've never knew the reason why it costs a bit more the higher octane you go. I know alot of stuff about cars, but not this LOL, weird huh? Figured I'd ask you guys!

Is it just because of the lower demand for higher octane fuel? I assume that is all it is. Just lets the fuel companies make a few extra bux for those who need it. Same with race fuel, costs A LOT, but doesn't sell nearly as much as regular, therfore costs more??

Or are there actually "addictives" that raise the cost of the higher octane fuel???

Just wondering!

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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-31-2006, 12:58 PM
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it's due to the refining process. all fuels start out as crude oil and get refined.





C= carbon count in the molecules strands. the more carbon = more mass, and they fall to the bottom of the still.

the separated fuel is then refined via vary processes:



race fuel & jet fuel (not shown) would be at the very top of the tower. there is less demand, but it requires much more refineing to make race fuel compared to say diesel. diesel is cheaper to make, but is in much more demand, thus yeilding a higher cost

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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-31-2006, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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Ahhh! Thanks alot man! Makes sense now! Great explanation too!


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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-31-2006, 01:37 PM
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Well, usually diesel is more expensive. Right now its about $0.02 cheaper. The 10 cent increments are probable just for the ease of pricing though.

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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-31-2006, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
Is it just because of the lower demand for higher octane fuel?
You would be amazed at all the idiots who think they need high octane fuel. I think I'm one of the few around here that pumps regular.

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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-31-2006, 10:58 PM
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yep... a girl in TN puts premium in her 95 mustang coupe... thats right... v6 3.8L NA engine and puts nothing but premium... talk about a waste of money...

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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-01-2006, 12:13 AM
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I ran a couple tanks of premium in my mustang last summer, just to see what would happen, if I would see an increase in milage or a slight jump in performance.....NOPE! Nothing! Now, a friend of mine put ?110? octane racing fuel in his 02 F-150 Supercrew.....don't know if it made a differance or if it killed his 02's or anything...he never complained so I guess not

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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-01-2006, 12:17 AM
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unless its programmed for it you are just throwin your money out the window... okay its time to go to bed.. night.

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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-01-2006, 12:19 AM
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i run 93... cuz lonnie tells me to


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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-01-2006, 12:19 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowDragon
You would be amazed at all the idiots who think they need high octane fuel. I think I'm one of the few around here that pumps regular.

LOL, true!!!

Reminds me of a guy I raced at norwalk once.... He came up to me afterwards asking me questions and what not:

Blah, blah, blah....... (skip, get to the important part)

Ricer guy:
I run 94 with a can of "NOS octane booster" in my Civic for more power!

Me:
Hmmm ... is it TC'ed or something? You only ran a 17.6 though..

Ricer guy:
No it's completely stock except the exhaust and intake tube!

Me:
Ahhh, yea... Hey I gotta go! (didn't feel like arguing with him)

LOL, people these days!

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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-01-2006, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowDragon
You would be amazed at all the idiots who think they need high octane fuel. I think I'm one of the few around here that pumps regular.
for a unmodified car running stock tune, yeah. anything past 91 is unnecessary, unless youre planning on pulling a large load(like a boat or some ****) uphill.

i have the diablo predator right now in the stang. i have the timing maxxed out, and if i dont put 91(highest in cali at normal pump stations), i get knock up whe wazzoo when going wot.

in the dsm, i ran 91 but on a richer tune and less timing. i found a station that sold 100 octane for 4.50/gal, i was able to up the timing to almost 19* and lean out a wee bit and upp the boost to 22psi, and make 46lbs/min airflow, take the airflow and multiply by 10 and you get a estimate of crank hp, give or take 20. it was well worth it to fill the tank with 50 bucks and feel that amount of power going to 1 front wheel on the freeway lemme tell you theres a reason that car is sold.

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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-01-2006, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesD
i run 93... cuz lonnie tells me to
Me also. Only problem is that the stations in this small @ss town changed ALL the pumps from 87-91-93 to 87-89-91. So, I had to pull my octane plug to run 91 instead of 93 (set up that way by lonnie) cause that's the highest octane I can get.

Sucks, but what am I to do?
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-02-2006, 09:25 AM
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my dad was in OK abotu 6-8 months for something. Filled up his bronco with 104 Octane fuel at the pump. 2.25 a gallon. I was like wtf.. you picked that up for 2.25 and I am stuck here paying 2.58 a gallon for regular... thats just effed up.

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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-03-2006, 01:07 PM
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It's not a total waste to put in higher octane gas...
With higher octane the engine uses less gas...
My VW Passat gets 30 mpg with 98 (equivelent to your premium)
and only 26 mpg with 95 octane...

So depending on the difference in price it's cheaper
to run higher octane....

Just my .02

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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-03-2006, 01:36 PM
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dude not in a Cougar or thunderbird... it doesn't know whether its premium or regular... therfor since its programmed for 87 it will put the same amount of gas in the cylinders regardless of octane. It thinks its putting in 87 even if its 110 racing gas. it will put the same amount of gas and will get the same mileage regardless unless it knows the octane lvl and changes timing accordingly.

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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-03-2006, 01:43 PM
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What it thinks doesn't matter...
Higher octane gets a more complete burn i.e. more power..
With that little added power you don't have to push as hard
on the fun pedal....
Oh... This only works if you drive REALLY careful..
If you stomp on it it doesn't matter...

Oh, and the Passat is a 95 so it's not a bit more advanced than
the Tbird... Both got ecc-iv computers

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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-04-2006, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowDragon
You would be amazed at all the idiots who think they need high octane fuel. I think I'm one of the few around here that pumps regular.
I had a friend that put high octane stuff in his 92 Chevy Full Size 'cause it had a lot of mileage on it and the high octane was suppose to make it last longer.
One thing some might be forgetting, the SC's (and 89-90 XR-7's) require the pricey stuff.

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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-06-2006, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FunktasticLucky
dude not in a Cougar or thunderbird... it doesn't know whether its premium or regular... therfor since its programmed for 87 it will put the same amount of gas in the cylinders regardless of octane. It thinks its putting in 87 even if its 110 racing gas. it will put the same amount of gas and will get the same mileage regardless unless it knows the octane lvl and changes timing accordingly.
until it starts to ping under accel due to ****ty gas, then itll pull timing and lose performance, whereas a higher octane gasoline has a higher tolerance to predetonation and thus wont ping/knock under load.

though if youre thinking on gasoline as a point a to b car(dd/commuter), then yeah, unless specified, id just use the low ****. no need to run 93 in a civic if itll never see more than 1/2 throttle and never enough of a load(uphill+wot) to even knock.

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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-06-2006, 08:02 AM
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Higher octane fuel is LESS volatile (read: less explosive) than lower octane fuel. It is this characteristic that allows you to run more aggressive timing and higher CR. You will actually make most power with the lowest octane fuel you can run without pre-igntion of the fuel (pinging). The reason SOME cars slow down with cheap stuff is that the EEC pulls timing because of some minor pinging, not because of the fuel itself. Higher octane fuel does not equal more power or milage.

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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-06-2006, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasR91169
until it starts to ping under accel due to ****ty gas, then itll pull timing and lose performance, whereas a higher octane gasoline has a higher tolerance to predetonation and thus wont ping/knock under load.
Thunderbirds and Cougars do not have knock sensors.

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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-14-2006, 07:08 AM
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hmmm im bringing this thread back to life

at gas stations around here we got 87(regular), 89, 91, 93
i put in 89 and i got noticable gas milage increase
does any1 know what stock v8 4.6L 97tbird is programmed to run? can i try 93 in my gas tank? or what would you guys recommend? because just switching from 87 to 89 made my MPG happy. kinda scared to try 93 it says ur car has to be able to run it o.0
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-14-2006, 07:12 AM Thread Starter
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87 is the recommended octane.

You should use the lowest octane possible without detonation. Some peeple have to run a bit higher than 87 to prevent pinging, but otherwise you should only use 87. Any higher is just a waste of $$$.

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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-14-2006, 07:48 AM
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hmmm weird
see i swapped out front O2's -> no difference at all in MPG
i put injector cleaner in -> no difference at all in MPG
i filled up full tank of 89 -> getting extra 20km per 1/4 of a tank already...
so i wanna go higher and see what the difference is
because if i get better bang for my buck with higher MPG then why not...

Unless the ecu needs time to relearn new O2's and injector cleaner...
do u know if my car will work with 91 or 93 safe?
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-14-2006, 07:54 AM Thread Starter
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Well you aren't going to hurt anything by going to a higher octane just FYI.

But you will more than likely lose power and just be wasting $$$. As long as there is nothing wrong with your car, higher octane will not usually increase your fuel economy.

Does your car ping/detonate under heavy throttle with 87?

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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-14-2006, 07:55 AM
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your car will be fine on 89/91/93, and if you can find it, 94 too; but you'll mostly be wasting your money unless your tuned to run it.

however, if your towing or driving up mountains all day it's better to run 93 compared to 87

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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-14-2006, 08:26 AM
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im not sure what you mean by ping/detonate
if i floor it -> it is NOT smooth acceleration but more of a jump as if it tries to do something weird. is that what you are refering too?
also i drive on highway 90% of the time.
im going to try 91 and then 93 once my tank goes empty see which one gives best MPG

believe it or not but i spend 200$ every 2 weeks on gas driving 70km on highway 5 days a week and some extra.
im trying to get maximum amount of MPG out of my $


tomaso12 r u sure 93 and 94 wont hurt the engine? like is the car made to support thouse gasses? i was reading up on knocking you get that damages engine if ur car isnt compatable.
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-14-2006, 08:53 AM
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i fill up with 89 every wednesday, just because here in my town you can get 89 for the same price or a cent cheaper than 87. then you got the winter gas, and that makes my car run like azz. If i need to fill up before wednesday, i go over to wal-mart and get the 10-15% ethanol gasoline. My car seems to run really good on that stuff.

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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-14-2006, 09:01 AM
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i also found some cool articles about higher MPG if any1 wants to read through them
http://www.wanderings.net/books/surp...er_gas_mileage
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-14-2006, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eg0r
i also found some cool articles about higher MPG if any1 wants to read through them
http://www.wanderings.net/books/surp...er_gas_mileage
From the list:

"10. Go High Grade - Maybe. High grade gas delivers better mileage IF the engine is explicitly designed for it. Most aren't. Otherwise, high grade gas does NOT improve mileage and is a waste of money (unless you need to minimize engine knocking). *See comments below "

Knocking, pinging, detonation.... it is when the ignition preignites due to a hot plug and makes some nasty noises as if there were beebees in you engine under moderate throttle. It is not good, can and will damage an engine if not taken care of. One fix is higher octane. The higher the octane, the harder it is to burn, therefor no more detonation.

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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-14-2006, 09:25 AM
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yep thats true
have you ever tried 93 or 91 in ur car?
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