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post #1 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
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twentyfour hours of LEMONS.

http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/

I say that those of us on TCCoA rally together $500 and enter the 24 hours of LeMons, for the glory. For the win.
For the cheepnis.

For instance, $800 for this 95.
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/cto/990918215.html

That means we only have to sell $300 of stuff off it to enter.

I'm going for a Cali event, namely

THE BUTTONWILLOW HISTRIONICS (2009)
Date: August 15-16, 2009
Track: Buttonwillow Raceway Park, Buttonwillow CA
Entry Deadline: Ten weeks before the race (6 June 2009)
Late Entries: Considered case-by-case, space permitting

That's six months to get a basketcase tbird, strip the crap out of it, weld in a cage and race it to death. You're allowed an unlimited budget for tires, wheels, rollcage and brakes. What do you guys think?

If we got 3-4 people in on it, each of us would be out only $300-400 total.

96 Laser Red 4.6L - Custom
Custom Nascar-Inspired Bodykit - 55* Rear Spoiler - J-modded Trans - 80mm MAF - One-Off Diablosport Chipmaster Revolution Chip/Tune W/Toggle - ScanGaugeII Diagnostics & Data Readout - PBR Brakes - Drilled/Slotted Rotors - SC Wheels & Springs - Falken Tires - KYB GR-1 Shocks/Struts - FSTB - RSTB - RTLB - LECB - 60/40 Split Rear - SC Seats - SC Vac/Boost Gauge
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post #2 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 09:11 PM
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now if we could find a beater sc and use that and get someone with an xcal we could unlimit it and tune it and win the comp. assuming the head gasket doesnt go out. lol

my other ride is an ambulance!
1997 V8 sport - first car - sold 6/7/10
2006 silver mustang gt premiumcustom made grill, frpp shorty headers, pypes cat back exhaust, hurst billet pro shifter,
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post #3 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 10:26 AM
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There was a 3.8 NA Bird that ran at the Toledo LeMons race in 2008, it did pretty well.

I highly recommend this event to anyone who can pull it off.


cheers
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post #4 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 07:00 PM
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90 bird

Hello

I have a chassis that can be used.

It already has a role cage in it. The seat is kinda close. I have some tires also.
We will have to use a different engine though. mine over budget!

Paul

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post #5 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 07:44 PM
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We can

Hello Ed

We can build it! I have the tech!

Needed A good body man, Windshield & wipers
Need engine work + trany guy

someone to weld up my new car, & help to swap parts over.

Paul

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post #6 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 11:03 AM
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Lights??

Hello

Does this LeMons car need lights?

mine don't have any. No wiring in car at all.

Paul

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post #7 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 11:55 AM
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I'm definitely game for this. Anyone want to go in on building a car for the CT race in July, let me know. I'm thinking a 5-speed SC with a carbed 351 would be the way to go. Get all the handling advantages of the SC, but you wouldn't have to worry about the reliability problems. Plus you could probably sell off enough of the SC stuff to put a bit of money into the 351.

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post #8 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 05:45 PM
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There was a fellow who entered a foxbody turbocoupe last year. He's posted over on NATO before.

http://jalopnik.com/399480/the-top-6...f-lemons-south

a black car.
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post #9 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 05:56 PM
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Not 351

Hello

A 351W would be a bad idea for a 24 hour race.
Trying to keep it cool is the first problem. Also fuel mileage.

This sounds like an endurance race. A 302 or even a 4.2 V-8 (255)
With A 302ho takes less room needed to help it cool + came in the chassis.
Fuel mileage so less stops for fuel.

As far as suspension, Is this an oval track or road coarse?
Race in any weather?

We can build it, we have the tech

I have many suspension parts & spring sizes.

Paul

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post #10 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 06:09 PM
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Here is the thread on NATO.

http://natomessageboard.com/ultimate...=020509#000000

The really long post near the bottom is the guy's result post. Nice read.

Rules also show $100 per driver fee, 4 - 6 drivers per team.

a black car.
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post #11 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 09:37 PM
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I think you have to use the engine thats in the car, or an engine that would of came with the car.

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post #12 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcline View Post
I think you have to use the engine thats in the car, or an engine that would of came with the car.
i read some of the rules partially and it didnt specify anything about mods except for the fact that the total cost of the car and money put into it can only cost 500 bucks.

but ghost if you need some cali boys i'd be more then happy to join up with you.

my other ride is an ambulance!
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post #13 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 10:22 PM
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91-93

Hello

Well a 302ho came in this car.

The 4.2 looks like a 302. Same size, just smaller pistons.
Same 3in stroke, heads similar. Can be dressed with 302 covers.
In-fact most are the same parts. This 4.2 engine came in some 80-82 T-birds.
So it is a t-bird engine.

Paul

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351W 2bbl.
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post #14 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdtess View Post
Hello

Well a 302ho came in this car.

The 4.2 looks like a 302. Same size, just smaller pistons.
Same 3in stroke, heads similar. Can be dressed with 302 covers.
In-fact most are the same parts. This 4.2 engine came in some 80-82 T-birds.
So it is a t-bird engine.

Paul
yeah but wouldnt we be just better off using a 4.6 sohc? they put out more. i'm thinking though a sc would be the best choice especially with the ecu flash so there's no govener on it.

my other ride is an ambulance!
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post #15 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 10:44 PM
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I could??

Hello

I can put this car together. mostly with parts on hand.

255 or 302 V8 2bbl. carb. dura spark ign.
AOD or FMX trany, 3.25 7.5 rear gear.
racing seat(needs some welding)
Body needs some smoothing(dented from racing)

Just need help assembling(welding needed) my new Race car. Swapping over the parts they will deem not legal.

Like racing springs, koni fronts, PBR calipers, 1 3/8in sway bar, mustang hubs.
Front K because one in the car has been Knoched to fit my T-pan 351W engine.
3.90 8.8 rear gear

might need a windshield & maybe wipers + a bigger fuel cell

Both cars need exhaust pipes, Mufflers on Lemons.

Trailer repair

Paul

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post #16 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdtess View Post
Hello

I can put this car together. mostly with parts on hand.

255 or 302 V8 2bbl. carb. dura spark ign.
AOD or FMX trany, 3.25 7.5 rear gear.
racing seat(needs some welding)
Body needs some smoothing(dented from racing)

Just need help assembling(welding needed) my new Race car. Swapping over the parts they will deem not legal.

Like racing springs, koni fronts, PBR calipers, 1 3/8in sway bar, mustang hubs.
Front K because one in the car has been Knoched to fit my T-pan 351W engine.
3.90 8.8 rear gear

might need a windshield & maybe wipers + a bigger fuel cell

Both cars need exhaust pipes, Mufflers on Lemons.

Trailer repair

Paul
well if you lived out here in the queer/sunshine state of cali that would be even better then . but if your entering over by you right on adn good luck

my other ride is an ambulance!
1997 V8 sport - first car - sold 6/7/10
2006 silver mustang gt premiumcustom made grill, frpp shorty headers, pypes cat back exhaust, hurst billet pro shifter,
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post #17 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 11:26 PM
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A 255 would be a horrible idea. I realize it is an endurance race, but the performance of the 255 is just crap. From what I understand it is a road course, so I would definitely want a manual trans. If it weren't for reliability issues, a 5-speed SC would be great. I don't think keeping the 351 cool would be an issue. Just get one of those summit radiators and you should be good to go. That rad was around $150, and it keeps my 393 cool, so I don't see it having any problems. Also, no sense limiting ourselves to the rules that your class requires; go with a 4-barrel and a decent manifold on a 302 or 351. PBR calipers wouldn't be illegal. They are something you can get out of a junkyard, so just do it that way and you can easily keep them under the budget. For springs and shocks, I would say the SC shocks set to the firm setting with SC springs with a coil or 2 cut off should make for a nice stiff ride to carve the corners with.

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-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
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post #18 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
A 255 would be a horrible idea. I realize it is an endurance race, but the performance of the 255 is just crap. From what I understand it is a road course, so I would definitely want a manual trans. If it weren't for reliability issues, a 5-speed SC would be great. I don't think keeping the 351 cool would be an issue. Just get one of those summit radiators and you should be good to go. That rad was around $150, and it keeps my 393 cool, so I don't see it having any problems. Also, no sense limiting ourselves to the rules that your class requires; go with a 4-barrel and a decent manifold on a 302 or 351. PBR calipers wouldn't be illegal. They are something you can get out of a junkyard, so just do it that way and you can easily keep them under the budget. For springs and shocks, I would say the SC shocks set to the firm setting with SC springs with a coil or 2 cut off should make for a nice stiff ride to carve the corners with.
well the most unreliable part of the sc is mainly the head gasket is it not. i would gut out all the electronics, radios, speakers, rear seat, front passenger seat, all that fun stuff.


ghost found a car

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/987079827.html

my other ride is an ambulance!
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post #19 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-17-2009, 12:35 AM
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Cool!!

Hello

Trust me keeping a 351W cool at 6000rpm is not easy.

I would not like to risk my PBR's. I have post 94 calipers to use.

Have you ever see my car??

My biggest problem would be the $500.00 proof.
My 90 was given to me. My 96 was also given to me.
90 had no drive train, The 96 had A bad engine.
I don't have a factory 4bbl. intake or a good carb.

Paul

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1990 Thunderbird Circle Track Street Stock
351W 2bbl.
C-4 Auto
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post #20 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-17-2009, 01:28 AM
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Ok, I now officially have a car for this. An 89XR7 5-speed with no title and missing the supercharger that I can get for free. I also have 3 superchargers sitting in my garage, so that's no big deal.

You are correct that the head gasket is the biggest reliability issue with the SC. I suppose with some MLS gaskets and head studs, as well as going through and replacing all the bearings in the bottom end, it could be reliable. They do have other issues though, particularly ignition system issues, but something like that wouldn't fail from beating on it, it would just be chance.

Paul, I have seen pics of your car. I know what you mean on the $500 proof, but you really don't need to prove it to anyone, as long as you know what you spent the money on. As for the PBRs, that would be something I would definitely want to swap onto a road race car. Like I said, they can be had at any junkyard off of any newer mustang, so I would just do it that way, instead of buying new ones, this way you aren't investing much money into them.

What kind of rad do you use to keep your 351 cool in your race car? The summit one is a pretty large and pretty thick radiator, looks just as big as the griffin.

I'm also thinking now maybe you'd be better off to run a fuel injected 5.0 in the SC chassis. All you would need is the engine and harness out of a 5.0 car and this way you wouldn't need to worry about re-doing the fuel system. Plus the fuel injection would be more reliable over an endurance race than a carb. So much to think about.

In any event, I'm definitely going to do the CT race in July with an 89XR7 5-speed. I already have one other driver who said he's up for it, so now I need 2 more. If anyone is interested, let me know. Also any input into setting up the car for racing would be appreciated.

Mike

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
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post #21 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-17-2009, 09:24 AM
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Hey madmike

Hello

I got my cages from CSC in Canada & Day Motor sports in Texas, For other car.
You will need to get extra tubing because the front window uprights will not fit.
I had to get new bars bent to fit.

These are weld in kits only. MUCH safer & MUCH cheaper!

I have a Griffin twin 1in core racing allu. Radiator. Factory electric fan + underdrive lower pulley.

I agree with fuel injection, But I don't have any.
I have Bronco induction but no computer.(will not fit under hood!)

I run the OLD Dura Spark II ignition.(mid 70's)

What is the purse? Just for winning cars?
Make sure you make or get shock tower cross braces! Front & rear.

Paul

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1990 Thunderbird Circle Track Street Stock
351W 2bbl.
C-4 Auto
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post #22 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-17-2009, 10:45 AM
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I'll definitely make make shock tower braces. As for the purse, the car who completes the most laps gets $1500, and the car the fans like the best gets $500, and the car the fans dislike the most gets destroyed.

How much did that cage cost you, not including installation? Do you have links to the stuff you bought?

For now I think I'm leaning towards running the 3.8SC, just do new rings, bearings, and gaskets, and it should be reliable enough. The only thing I would be worried about is the SC's cooling system leaves quite a bit to be desired.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
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post #23 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-17-2009, 11:33 AM
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check racingjunk.com that site will net you gold alot of times. Also dont forget craigslist.

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post #24 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-17-2009, 12:24 PM
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cages

Hello

Well my first cage came from CSC in Canada
www.cscracing.com

My other cage I bought threw Day Motor sports in Texas
www.daymotorsports.com

I also added 2X3 side rails. on the flour on each side for the role cage.
The 2X3's are welded to the rear frame section. cross brace under seat.

You could also head to your nearest circle track & find a builder to bend your cage up.

Paul

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post #25 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-17-2009, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post

I know what you mean on the $500 proof, but you really don't need to prove it to anyone, as long as you know what you spent the money on.

Mike, you have to convince the organizers before the race that you have a max of $500 in to the car, not including safety equipment and wheels & tires. You're best to have a spreadsheet done up showing your expenses and sales of parts off the car to back you up. Otherwise you will get penalized laps right off the start, if they don't believe you.


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post #26 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-17-2009, 03:58 PM
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I realize that, that's why I said as long as you know what you spent the money on, as in you can account for everything that's on the car, and how much it cost you.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
-"Your buddy Mike is INSANE!" -ClintD's dad
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post #27 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-19-2009, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Well, as long as we make up some bull**** story about how we got it for $500 off you, we win.

Btw, don't expect to win and there are LeMons events all over the USA. I'm in SoCal so I'd be running something around here. I was thinking about running a beater 4.6L bird because it's reliable. I don't think an SC is a good idea because, uh, hello, SC's break like nobody's business and this is an endurance race.

The competition is TIGHT, there are lots of geeky racing nerds that can beat us but the idea is to have fun thrashing a car for a day, building something and doing it that way.

We also need to have a really ridiculous theme or livery.

Like the Char-o-Chicken thunderbird or something equally ridiculous.
Or FALCON WATERFREE TECHNOLOGIES thunderbird (lol if you know what falcon makes)

anyways I think we could win people's choice if we did it right.

96 Laser Red 4.6L - Custom
Custom Nascar-Inspired Bodykit - 55* Rear Spoiler - J-modded Trans - 80mm MAF - One-Off Diablosport Chipmaster Revolution Chip/Tune W/Toggle - ScanGaugeII Diagnostics & Data Readout - PBR Brakes - Drilled/Slotted Rotors - SC Wheels & Springs - Falken Tires - KYB GR-1 Shocks/Struts - FSTB - RSTB - RTLB - LECB - 60/40 Split Rear - SC Seats - SC Vac/Boost Gauge
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post #28 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-19-2009, 03:34 PM
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i read the rules and you also have to have an SCCA or NASA license. also dont get to attached to the car cause a fellow competitor can buy it for $500 if they think you fudged your build cost

1997 Thunderbird LX, 4.6L, Performance White.
3.27 TL, 300hp J-Mod, Mid-Mount Magnaflow w/2.25" True Duals to 3" Magnaflow 15* Slash Cut Tips, PI Intake,
FR500 Steering Wheel, FRPP Wires, 180* T-Stat, 22C Plugs, Cobra Vert Rears, RSTB, SC "L" Braces. 175k and still flying!
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post #29 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-19-2009, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by greencurse View Post
i read the rules and you also have to have an SCCA or NASA license. also dont get to attached to the car cause a fellow competitor can buy it for $500 if they think you fudged your build cost
You do not NEED to have a NASA or SCCA license, if you don't have one, you buy a LeMons license for $50.

96 Laser Red 4.6L - Custom
Custom Nascar-Inspired Bodykit - 55* Rear Spoiler - J-modded Trans - 80mm MAF - One-Off Diablosport Chipmaster Revolution Chip/Tune W/Toggle - ScanGaugeII Diagnostics & Data Readout - PBR Brakes - Drilled/Slotted Rotors - SC Wheels & Springs - Falken Tires - KYB GR-1 Shocks/Struts - FSTB - RSTB - RTLB - LECB - 60/40 Split Rear - SC Seats - SC Vac/Boost Gauge
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post #30 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-19-2009, 06:29 PM
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this is starting to sound expensive! if i were thinking about entering i would start now and plan for next year.

1997 Thunderbird LX, 4.6L, Performance White.
3.27 TL, 300hp J-Mod, Mid-Mount Magnaflow w/2.25" True Duals to 3" Magnaflow 15* Slash Cut Tips, PI Intake,
FR500 Steering Wheel, FRPP Wires, 180* T-Stat, 22C Plugs, Cobra Vert Rears, RSTB, SC "L" Braces. 175k and still flying!
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