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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-07-2015, 08:47 PM Thread Starter
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70's Throwback Southern 500

http://www.darlingtonraceway.com/Van...t-Schemes.aspx

I usually only watch the first and last 50 laps of a race on TV, but I was on the couch watching for six hours last night because the racing was so good.

The throwback booth with Ken Squire and Ned Jarrett was the best part of the race. Ken had the balls to say the backstretch seats were a lot fuller than they were last year.

The pre-race stuff was off the hook, too. I wish I had gone to the race, but I would have missed the retro stuff with the legends if I had.

IMO the best driver tracks are Indy, Las Vegas, and Darlington. That was the best racing I have seen in a long time.

You could tell BK was heartbroken he didn't get the win. There's no caution if that spin had been earlier in the race.




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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-08-2015, 09:33 PM
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Agreed. That was a great race! Best I've seen for a long time as well.

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-08-2015, 09:52 PM
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Would have been way cooler if they raced the actual 70s cars instead of the 1990s Lumina shaped bodies with Ford/Chevy/Toyota headlight stickers glued on

-Matt
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-08-2015, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
Would have been way cooler if they raced the actual 70s cars instead of the 1990s Lumina shaped bodies with Ford/Chevy/Toyota headlight stickers glued on
The best looking stock cars were 25 years ago:


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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-09-2015, 08:55 AM
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Would have been way cooler if they raced the actual 70s cars instead of the 1990s Lumina shaped bodies with Ford/Chevy/Toyota headlight stickers glued on
I would love to see a vintage NASCAR series like the SCCA has for older race cars. Even it they were only exhibition style races. It's great to see old race cars in their element duking it out. I frankly stopped watching NASCAR back around the time of the Car of Tomorrow or whatever they called it. There was a time when racing improved the breed. Win on Sunday sell on Monday and all that. What was important is that the racing technology filtered down to the production lines. Stuff like Disk Brakes heavy duty suspension options handling packages all started with racing parts and the police interceptor parts bins.

NASCAR image is still important to the car companies. We would have seen a lot more power sooner if NASCAR had not introduced restrict or plates but instead lowered the displacement limit to 5 liters and allowed factory style fuel injection. Any production based engine as long as the parts were readily available at any dealership. Couple that with the requirement to actually have a qualifying body type to race or sit on the sidelines. It would have been a incentive to to keep the MN12 in production a few years longer. Imagine a factory Thunderbird homolgation special with a 5.0 DOHC and the basic suspension upgraded to something that would live through the season.

I just have zero interest in watching a FWD domestic or import 4 door sedan on a spec frame race when there's nothing in common with the production cars.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-09-2015, 12:24 PM
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I don't think Nascar anywhere near as lucrative as it used to be for automakers, really in the last few years ratings and attendance has waned, problem when something gets so popular as it inexplicably did in the late 90s, an even bigger faction of the population realizes they just got duped into watching billboards drive around in circles for several hours, all while inducing tinnitus if you went to races

Nascar never really interested me in my lifetime, yes, including the 89-97 Tbird era. I have zero interest in seeing a spec frame run circles period, and it was already that way by the 90s. The car of tomorrow as I saw it was to eliminate what little differentiation there was that was left, throwing on a ricer wing to target "that" demographic(the subsequent elimination of it is proof AFAIC) and focus the light fully on the drivers, turning the car into the equivalent of a large helmet for them - Maybe I'm just weird, but when I'm watching racing, I'm watching THE CARS. I root for the car I like and applaud the driver for piloting it well, exactly as much as the crew for maintaining it through the race in fact. But I'm not a sports fan so maybe that's my problem. All I know is I'm the penultimate eat/sleep/live car guy, anyone who knows me can attest, and if I'm not drawn to a sport that is based around them, something is direly wrong.

I may not of lived through the era but it was far more interesting in the 60s. Manufactures truly were heavily involved, engine/driveline components actually were rooted from production offerings, and, as you mentioned, homologation was still a thing. The various 426 Hemi cars, Boss 429s, Daytona/Superbirds, Talledaga/Cyclone Spoiler IIs all existed on the street solely to make the engines and shapes eligible for racing - the latter of which now(especially the Fords and early Charger 500) are almost comical to think about in the context today with the very blatant sticker jobs on aero bodies being mandatory.

I think Tbird enthusiasts delude themselves a bit saying "Ford designed them for the ovals", the shape lent itself well to it, sure, but I seriously doubt Ford designers, feverishly trying to make a clean break from the slow selling boxy Iacocca approved 80-82s, in a world where European imports pretty had the styling reigns effectively handed to them, had even the slightest thought about how their new design would cope in Nascar, same with the MN12, which was more an E24 BMW crossed with an Audi 100, than a Torino Talledega homage.

Chevrolet was far more in tune with the Nascar crowd, they were the "heartbeat of 'Murica" brand afterall, who'se only takers by the 90s were the types who just loved that slogan and loved Nascar. Once they saw the success of the Tbirds over their broughamy knife edged G bodys, they pretty much took tracing paper to the Tbird shape and made the Lumina/Monte Carlos.

-Matt
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-09-2015, 05:22 PM
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If it was truly a throw back race there would only have been cigarette, beer and
chewing tobacco sponsors on the cars.

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-09-2015, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
I don't think Nascar anywhere near as lucrative as it used to be for automakers, really in the last few years ratings and attendance has waned, problem when something gets so popular as it inexplicably did in the late 90s, an even bigger faction of the population realizes they just got duped into watching billboards drive around in circles for several hours, all while inducing tinnitus if you went to races

Nascar never really interested me in my lifetime, yes, including the 89-97 Tbird era. I have zero interest in seeing a spec frame run circles period, and it was already that way by the 90s. The car of tomorrow as I saw it was to eliminate what little differentiation there was that was left, throwing on a ricer wing to target "that" demographic(the subsequent elimination of it is proof AFAIC) and focus the light fully on the drivers, turning the car into the equivalent of a large helmet for them - Maybe I'm just weird, but when I'm watching racing, I'm watching THE CARS. I root for the car I like and applaud the driver for piloting it well, exactly as much as the crew for maintaining it through the race in fact. But I'm not a sports fan so maybe that's my problem. All I know is I'm the penultimate eat/sleep/live car guy, anyone who knows me can attest, and if I'm not drawn to a sport that is based around them, something is direly wrong.

I may not of lived through the era but it was far more interesting in the 60s. Manufactures truly were heavily involved, engine/driveline components actually were rooted from production offerings, and, as you mentioned, homologation was still a thing. The various 426 Hemi cars, Boss 429s, Daytona/Superbirds, Talledaga/Cyclone Spoiler IIs all existed on the street solely to make the engines and shapes eligible for racing - the latter of which now(especially the Fords and early Charger 500) are almost comical to think about in the context today with the very blatant sticker jobs on aero bodies being mandatory.

I think Tbird enthusiasts delude themselves a bit saying "Ford designed them for the ovals", the shape lent itself well to it, sure, but I seriously doubt Ford designers, feverishly trying to make a clean break from the slow selling boxy Iacocca approved 80-82s, in a world where European imports pretty had the styling reigns effectively handed to them, had even the slightest thought about how their new design would cope in Nascar, same with the MN12, which was more an E24 BMW crossed with an Audi 100, than a Torino Talledega homage.

Chevrolet was far more in tune with the Nascar crowd, they were the "heartbeat of 'Murica" brand afterall, who'se only takers by the 90s were the types who just loved that slogan and loved Nascar. Once they saw the success of the Tbirds over their broughamy knife edged G bodys, they pretty much took tracing paper to the Tbird shape and made the Lumina/Monte Carlos.
I hated the 80-82 birds when they came out. My aunt bought a new one with the gutless wonder of the 255. As I recall the dashboard actually fell out. It was a total POS. Weirdly enough now after 35 years of downsized cars I'm liking them a little bit more. If you could find the right one in good shape. Add all the best Fox body parts and drop it. It might look pretty good. You could cube all the 80-82 Cougars though as far as I'm concerned. I once won 25 dollar bet with a hillbilly that couldn't comprehend that Saint Dale once drove a Ford. Still have that #15 WranglerBird in a box in the basement. It would almost be worth building a replica just to p1ss off the bow tie boys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by r429460 View Post
If it was truly a throw back race there would only have been cigarette, beer and
chewing tobacco sponsors on the cars.
I forget who? Davey Allison? Probably more than a few drivers actually. But back when the had open faced helmets one of the drivers had a NASCAR stock car with a functioning cigarette lighter and a open pack of cigarettes clamped to the dash. May have had a cold beer in there for all I know

Ah the days when men were men. Race cars were cars. And you could buy a car with something like a 427 side oiler. Dual quad 427 "W" motor or 426 Max Wedge. Or cutting edge technology like four wheel drums with full metallic linings Pontiac had some *****in aluminium drum brakes that you bolted rims too. Buddy's got a set on his 63 (64?) 421 Catalina. Long before the fabled shaker hood scoop pontiacs answer to a hood scoop was to buy F600 school bus air intakes and sell them through their parts network with a box with a GM part number. Or running 6 lug wheels with truck axles when the passenger car parts weren't up to the task. But all this eventually turned into tech that filtered down in the form of disk brakes. Heavy duty driveline components. Cold air induction. Better suspension. Good times for all involved.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-09-2015, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 97CatMan View Post
I hated the 80-82 birds when they came out. My aunt bought a new one with the gutless wonder of the 255. As I recall the dashboard actually fell out. It was a total POS. Weirdly enough now after 35 years of downsized cars I'm liking them a little bit more. If you could find the right one in good shape. Add all the best Fox body parts and drop it. It might look pretty good. You could cube all the 80-82 Cougars though as far as I'm concerned. I once won 25 dollar bet with a hillbilly that couldn't comprehend that Saint Dale once drove a Ford. Still have that #15 WranglerBird in a box in the basement. It would almost be worth building a replica just to p1ss off the bow tie boys.


I forget who? Davey Allison? Probably more than a few drivers actually. But back when the had open faced helmets one of the drivers had a NASCAR stock car with a functioning cigarette lighter and a open pack of cigarettes clamped to the dash. May have had a cold beer in there for all I know

Ah the days when men were men. Race cars were cars. And you could buy a car with something like a 427 side oiler. Dual quad 427 "W" motor or 426 Max Wedge. Or cutting edge technology like four wheel drums with full metallic linings Pontiac had some *****in aluminium drum brakes that you bolted rims too. Buddy's got a set on his 63 (64?) 421 Catalina. Long before the fabled shaker hood scoop pontiacs answer to a hood scoop was to buy F600 school bus air intakes and sell them through their parts network with a box with a GM part number. Or running 6 lug wheels with truck axles when the passenger car parts weren't up to the task. But all this eventually turned into tech that filtered down in the form of disk brakes. Heavy duty driveline components. Cold air induction. Better suspension. Good times for all involved.
Dick Trickle (RIP) was known to smoke in the car during races, and he even had a closed face helmet.


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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-10-2015, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
I don't think NASCAR anywhere near as lucrative as it used to be for automakers, really in the last few years ratings and attendance has waned, problem when something gets so popular as it inexplicably did in the late 90s, an even bigger faction of the population realizes they just got duped into watching billboards drive around in circles for several hours, all while inducing tinnitus if you went to races

NASCAR never really interested me in my lifetime, yes, including the 89-97 Tbird era. I have zero interest in seeing a spec frame run circles period, and it was already that way by the 90s. The car of tomorrow as I saw it was to eliminate what little differentiation there was that was left, throwing on a ricer wing to target "that" demographic(the subsequent elimination of it is proof AFAIC) and focus the light fully on the drivers, turning the car into the equivalent of a large helmet for them - Maybe I'm just weird, but when I'm watching racing, I'm watching THE CARS. I root for the car I like and applaud the driver for piloting it well, exactly as much as the crew for maintaining it through the race in fact. But I'm not a sports fan so maybe that's my problem. All I know is I'm the penultimate eat/sleep/live car guy, anyone who knows me can attest, and if I'm not drawn to a sport that is based around them, something is direly wrong.

I may not of lived through the era but it was far more interesting in the 60s. Manufactures truly were heavily involved, engine/driveline components actually were rooted from production offerings, and, as you mentioned, homologation was still a thing. The various 426 Hemi cars, Boss 429s, Daytona/Superbirds, Talladega/Cyclone Spoiler IIs all existed on the street solely to make the engines and shapes eligible for racing - the latter of which now(especially the Fords and early Charger 500) are almost comical to think about in the context today with the very blatant sticker jobs on aero bodies being mandatory.

I think Tbird enthusiasts delude themselves a bit saying "Ford designed them for the ovals", the shape lent itself well to it, sure, but I seriously doubt Ford designers, feverishly trying to make a clean break from the slow selling boxy Iacocca approved 80-82s, in a world where European imports pretty had the styling reigns effectively handed to them, had even the slightest thought about how their new design would cope in NASCAR, same with the MN12, which was more an E24 BMW crossed with an Audi 100, than a Torino Talladega homage.

Chevrolet was far more in tune with the NASCAR crowd, they were the "heartbeat of ''Murica" brand after all, who's only takers by the 90s were the types who just loved that slogan and loved NASCAR. Once they saw the success of the Tbirds over their broughamy knife edged G bodies, they pretty much took tracing paper to the Tbird shape and made the Lumina/Monte Carlos.
I agree with the content but damn the spelling and punctuation. Learn how to spell Talladega , NASCAR is an acronym and should be capitalized.

Anyway, I fixed most of it for ya.

Quote:
Originally Posted by r429460 View Post
If it was truly a throw back race there would only have been cigarette, beer and
chewing tobacco sponsors on the cars.
LOL ... So true! It used to be called the Winston Cup Series (1971-2003) for a reason!

It's interesting to note that the heavy endorsement of NASCAR and other sporting events (i.e. MLB) by big tobacco was a work around that they did to advertise, since television advertising of tobacco products on TV was banned by the Public Health Cigarette Smoking Act of 1971.

The beer industry also has a long association with NASCAR for obvious reasons ...

Take a look at pit-road from the Richmond International Raceway in 1985. Ah, those were the days ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprint...itLane1985.jpg

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Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 09-10-2015 at 09:21 AM.
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