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post #301 of 325 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
You have a welder, so hit all the nutserts with enough to make them part of the chassis electrically.

Stainless rusts everything else that's not the same stainless, so that could easily be it.
I changed the screw/bolt to a steel one with washers to ensure more contact. No luck/no start.

I also verified that the fuel pump runs while I'm trying to start the car. I also have verified fuel pressure.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
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-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
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post #302 of 325 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 09:08 PM
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How do the plugs look after a failed start attempt? If you have fuel and pulse at the injector, you should have wet plugs, no? And forgive my ignorance here- is there any way to bypass the computer and run the distributor as of it's not controlled?

This is why I'm contemplating carb or Fitech on my 347. You're all way more knowledgeable than I am and this is a tough one. Hope you get it going soon!
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post #303 of 325 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 09:20 PM
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Did you ever unplug your PCM ?? Just be sure that none of the pins were bend during installation. I have had this happen on one occasion that prevented the car from starting. Considering all other things, you have fuel pulse / spark .. cant see why it wouldn't start at this point if you haven't messed with the timing / distributor. Engine block is grounded ?? .. scratching my head here, these problems are much easier to diagnose when I can get my hands on the car with a volt meter and electrical diagram.
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post #304 of 325 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 05:33 AM Thread Starter
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Did you ever unplug your PCM ?? Just be sure that none of the pins were bend during installation. I have had this happen on one occasion that prevented the car from starting. Considering all other things, you have fuel pulse / spark .. cant see why it wouldn't start at this point if you haven't messed with the timing / distributor. Engine block is grounded ?? .. scratching my head here, these problems are much easier to diagnose when I can get my hands on the car with a volt meter and electrical diagram.
Yeah, I've swapped the PCM out and I don't have any bent pins.

I've got a grounding strap between the timing cover and frame rail. I guess I can add more grounds.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #305 of 325 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
FWIW, when I relocated my stock battery to the passenger's footwell, I found I needed to run some extra ground cables to insure the car would start effectively during hot start conditions.

At one point, the only way I could start the car was to hook up the plug in this thing and hit it with extra juice when the car got hot.
https://www.sears.com/diehard-200a-w...p-02871331000P



The solution was to run a dedicated 4ga power line to the starter from the killswitch (to make sure it got as much current as it wanted) AND a dedicated 4ga ground line back to the battery negative terminal (shorter run than you have). I then beefed up the ground from the battery to the body of the car.

I suspect you might have an issue with the ground from the starter to the battery.
Everything else (well, maybe the radiator fans, but thats a secondary item to getting the car started), is probably much lower current draw.
-g
Right now I'm running 1/0ga wire from the starter solenoid under the hood to the battery in the trunk. I'm also running 1/0ga wire from the starter solenoid to the starter. I'm also running 1/0ga wire to the alternator. In the trunk I'm running 2ga wire to the chassis for ground. It's only about 24in. long so I figure that's enough. I have a ground strap connected to the timing cover and the frame rail. I also ran a piece of 2ga ground cable from that same point to the ground side of the fuse box under the hood.

I guess I should also run that 2ga ground cable to my common ground point under the dash since that might be an issue.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #306 of 325 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 08:23 PM
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Your timing cover aluminum? What type of bolt?
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post #307 of 325 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zep5.0 View Post
Your timing cover aluminum? What type of bolt?
Yeah, stock covers are aluminum and I'm using an ARP bolt that's chromoly steel.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #308 of 325 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMartigan View Post
Right now I'm running 1/0ga wire from the starter solenoid under the hood to the battery in the trunk. I'm also running 1/0ga wire from the starter solenoid to the starter. I'm also running 1/0ga wire to the alternator. In the trunk I'm running 2ga wire to the chassis for ground. It's only about 24in. long so I figure that's enough. I have a ground strap connected to the timing cover and the frame rail. I also ran a piece of 2ga ground cable from that same point to the ground side of the fuse box under the hood.

I guess I should also run that 2ga ground cable to my common ground point under the dash since that might be an issue.
Before running the wire, you could also use some jumper cables just to test things out. Grab on the block with one side, attach it to the negative on the battery at the other and see what happens.
-g
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post #309 of 325 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
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PROGRESS!!!!


I swapped the fuel injectors during the week but just didn't have time to work on the car to put it back together and test it out.

I've got more work to do but the car will almost run. I have to hold the throttle wide open and it's doing some popping and cracking a bit but it's almost there. I have some research to do.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #310 of 325 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 11:15 AM
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Hmm the opposite should be happening with the throttle wide open, it should put the PCM in clear flood mode shutting off the injectors to prevent the engine from starting.

-Matt
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post #311 of 325 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
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Hmm the opposite should be happening with the throttle wide open, it should put the PCM in clear flood mode shutting off the injectors to prevent the engine from starting.
OBD-I

I'm not sure why it's doing this so I'm open to any ideas.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #312 of 325 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!!

So, when putting everything back together I forgot to plug in the TPS and IAC.

The car starts and runs. Now I have to fix timing since I f***ed with it so much. The car is running at a low idle with a lot of pops and cracks but it runs.

Thanks everyone for your patience. It appears that it was indeed the fuel injectors.
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"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #313 of 325 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 01:46 PM
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Yes!!!!!
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post #314 of 325 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 02:13 PM
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post #315 of 325 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 02:36 PM
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I hope you're out terrorizing the neighbors today.

We've got beautiful weather today, hope it made it over there.

So, it was the injectors, you reckon?
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post #316 of 325 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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I hope you're out terrorizing the neighbors today.

We've got beautiful weather today, hope it made it over there.

So, it was the injectors, you reckon?
Well, I'm building seat brackets and it's Easter Sunday so I guess I have to spend time with the family.

The seat brackets are made and painted, they just need to dry. The car runs but it's backfiring so I have a significant timing issue. I also f****ed up the lower distributor cap a couple of days ago so I have a new one coming tomorrow. I still have a lot of work left to do before I get it outside the garage but a running car is huge.
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"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #317 of 325 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 03:23 PM
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Something silly I just thought of, but you did a Substantial rewire of the engine bay...

Are you positive the injectors are the correct wires in the right spot?




I screwed up with my engine harness on the Red cougar PI swap, and had the left bank on the right, and vice versa.

A noid light and a timing light showed that problem; it wasn't firing the cylinder that had just had fuel squirted into it.

(It's still not running, but soon, I hope. Needs radiator and transmission cooler plumbing.)

Crazy, but it was easy to do, lol.

Not so easy to fix, as I had carefully trimmed and wrapped the wires.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #318 of 325 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 03:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
Something silly I just thought of, but you did a Substantial rewire of the engine bay...

Are you positive the injectors are the correct wires in the right spot?




I screwed up with my engine harness on the Red cougar PI swap, and had the left bank on the right, and vice versa.

A noid light and a timing light showed that problem; it wasn't firing the cylinder that had just had fuel squirted into it.

(It's still not running, but soon, I hope. Needs radiator and transmission cooler plumbing.)

Crazy, but it was easy to do, lol.

Not so easy to fix, as I had carefully trimmed and wrapped the wires.
I am 99.99% sure about the injector wiring. When I rebuilt the harness I didn't mess much with those but I went through the wiring and labeled all of those.

I've messed with the timing a lot so I definitely need to make sure that I've got it correct.
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"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #319 of 325 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 04:32 PM
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Awesome news! Once you get it timed and all ready to go would be awesome to hear it run, since I'm going to run a fairly similar setup. Nice work staying calm through all the diagnostics!
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post #320 of 325 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 04:57 PM
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A major rework job like this is always full of problems.

Kudos to MM for doing all this awesome work.


I did want to ask, tho; Why did they remove all the brackets and all you had to replace; was it Racecar, or different hood, etc? (hood support brackets weigh, what, 10 ounces, total? )

Your front end resto is way better than original, and should be stiffer than stock, but why did they remove it?

If I'm being nosy, I'm sorry; but you had to do a lot of work there that made me wonder "why?"

If you don't want to get into it I understand.


I can't wait to see pix of it on the track.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #321 of 325 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
A major rework job like this is always full of problems.

Kudos to MM for doing all this awesome work.


I did want to ask, tho; Why did they remove all the brackets and all you had to replace; was it Racecar, or different hood, etc? (hood support brackets weigh, what, 10 ounces, total? )

Your front end resto is way better than original, and should be stiffer than stock, but why did they remove it?

If I'm being nosy, I'm sorry; but you had to do a lot of work there that made me wonder "why?"

If you don't want to get into it I understand.


I can't wait to see pix of it on the track.
I think they removed all of the brackets because they modified the original K member to move the SC engine back about 3 inches. I have that K member if you want to come and get it.

Originally they wanted to remove as much weight as possible and I think they decided that they didn't need that area to be protected. They had also cut the core support and leaned the radiator forward which is why I removed my old core support and used it instead.

I can't wait to drive it on the track too.
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"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #322 of 325 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 06:17 PM
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Probably a stupid question, but that K member wont fit a 96 4.6, will it?

Lazarus could use one, lol.

(Engine mount broke, throttle stuck, broke 3 out of 4 wheels, a few years ago.)

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #323 of 325 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
Probably a stupid question, but that K member wont fit a 96 4.6, will it?

Lazarus could use one, lol.

(Engine mount broke, throttle stuck, broke 3 out of 4 wheels, a few years ago.)
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but they are all the same from 89-97. This one does have the mounts relocated (welded) a couple of inches farther back so it may not be of use to you. Pickup only.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #324 of 325 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 10:50 PM
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No, that won't do it for me; exhaust is close.

I understand "pickup only, lol; that's a heavy piece, and my Mail Lady would just shoot me rather than deliver, lol.
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Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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post #325 of 325 (permalink) Old Today, 08:48 AM
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FYI, there are 2 different front subframes, 89-92 and 93+. The difference is the location of the motor mount pads are 1” further apart on the newer one to accommodate the wider 4.6 engine.
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-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
-"Your buddy Mike is INSANE!" -ClintD's dad
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