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post #331 of 350 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 07:37 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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I need to throw a party again; I have a huge area near the lake we can camp at, and the hotels are cheap.

I'm still looking for a Cargo 747, lol.
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Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #332 of 350 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
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Crap. I bet that's your popping; it's getting unmetered air.


Is that manifold aluminum or plastic?

If it's aluminum, it'll have to be welded; if it's plastic, I'd remove the bolt, make a slightly larger 'shelf' on the runner side, epoxy it back together, and add a 1/8" shim of steel that mounts under the nut, and will catch on the edge of the lip you made, holding it down with the mounting nut.

I hope it's aluminum.
It's an aluminum intake (Trick Flow Street Heat). Honestly, I've been looking for a reason to switch to a higher RPM intake so I guess this is my opportunity. I just have to verify that the Track Heat upper will bolt to my lower. Historically it was supposed to but I've got a message out to Trick Flow and Summit.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #333 of 350 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 08:27 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Breakage is always the best time to upgrade; and someone will buy and fix that one, lowering the upgrade cost.

I have to ask, tho: I thought the one you have is best for "Overall performance" while the "Track Heat" one was for drag racing; I'd love to hear your perspective.

I know "sheet metal" intakes are XXXXRPM, +-500rpm massive power, with extreme peakage; I'm not at all informed about the trick flow ones.

And I know only really old 5.0 engines; my buddys 93 mustang is the latest one I've dealt with; and his carbed '85 eats it alive. (Even with me driving)

Of course, there's probably over 1000lbs between those cars, lol.
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Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #334 of 350 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 08:33 PM Thread Starter
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Breakage is always the best time to upgrade; and someone will buy and fix that one, lowering the upgrade cost.

I have to ask, tho: I thought the one you have is best for "Overall performance" while the "Track Heat" one was for drag racing; I'd love to hear your perspective.

I know "sheet metal" intakes are XXXXRPM, +-500rpm massive power, with extreme peakage; I'm not at all informed about the trick flow ones.

And I know only really old 5.0 engines; my buddys 93 mustang is the latest one I've dealt with; and his carbed '85 eats it alive. (Even with me driving)

Of course, there's probably over 1000lbs between those cars, lol.
Well, in this case I'm thinking of addressing a unique problem. The Street Heat intake is good for idle to 5500 rpm and the Track Heat is good for 1500 to 6500 rpm. Because of the amount of torque the engine puts out, it can be a little tough to control with the street intake. By getting a bit more horsepower in the upper rpm range and losing just a slight bit of torque I think it will balance the car a bit more. At least that's the theory.

Yeah, I'll try to sell the old one but I doubt there are a lot of takers at this point. We'll see. I just have to verify that I can use my existing lower intake.
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"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #335 of 350 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMartigan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
Breakage is always the best time to upgrade; and someone will buy and fix that one, lowering the upgrade cost.

I have to ask, tho: I thought the one you have is best for "Overall performance" while the "Track Heat" one was for drag racing; I'd love to hear your perspective.

I know "sheet metal" intakes are XXXXRPM, +-500rpm massive power, with extreme peakage; I'm not at all informed about the trick flow ones.

And I know only really old 5.0 engines; my buddys 93 mustang is the latest one I've dealt with; and his carbed '85 eats it alive. (Even with me driving)

Of course, there's probably over 1000lbs between those cars, lol.
Well, in this case I'm thinking of addressing a unique problem. The Street Heat intake is good for idle to 5500 rpm and the Track Heat is good for 1500 to 6500 rpm. Because of the amount of torque the engine puts out, it can be a little tough to control with the street intake. By getting a bit more horsepower in the upper rpm range and losing just a slight bit of torque I think it will balance the car a bit more. At least that's the theory.

Yeah, I'll try to sell the old one but I doubt there are a lot of takers at this point. We'll see. I just have to verify that I can use my existing lower intake.
That's a big change in operating RPM. Is your Cam somewhere in the middle? I'd be afraid to run that much intake of your Cam operates to a 5500 peak RPM. If you're closer to 6000 with the Cam, you might be on the right track. That being said; I'd think you're in the higher part of the operating RPM range, so if your Cam is in between, lean to the higher RPM intake.

It's always something, isn't it.
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post #336 of 350 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 10:31 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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I don't think the cam is the controlling factor there; runner length is the big deal.

A cam does have input to that, but the airflow resonance characteristics, helmholts port stuffing, is the big deal.

You want the reflected shock wave thru the intake from the valve closing to return just as the valve is opening, as you can stuff 2x+ the amount of charge into the cylinder, if those waves are correct.

That's why that intake is so pricey.

For every cam change, the 'tuned intake' wave changes, and gets bigger; but that doesn't really change the timing of the wave.

More cam == more better, but you eventually end up with an engine that makes power at 7000rpm, but nowhere else.

And your auto tranny does not want to see 7k. Without mods.
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Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #337 of 350 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 05:58 PM Thread Starter
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I had a buddy of mine come over that has a lot of experience and knowledge with Windsor engines and he listened to my "pop" sound and determined it was probably coming from a leak in the headers that's igniting air that's getting sucked in and then burning inside the exhaust. I agreed since I am pretty sure that I have a hole larger than a pin hole in one of the primaries that I created by accident and didn't think would be a problem. Now I just need to remove the passenger side header, grind down the surface a bit and weld the hole shut. After that I should be in business to deal with the next dumbass mistake I make.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #338 of 350 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 06:10 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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After that I should be in business to deal with the next dumbass mistake I make.
That sounds a lot like My process.

I'm happy you found it.
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Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #339 of 350 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 07:17 PM Thread Starter
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That sounds a lot like My process.

I'm happy you found it.
As soon as my buddy said that he thought it was the exhaust "burning" unmetered air/fuel I knew what was up. The sound was coming out of the tail pipe but the engine was running pretty smooth. Better this problem than something more serious.
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"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #340 of 350 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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OK, after a week and a half of bullshit and no resolution, I'm almost back to square one. My latest stupid is replacing the throttle body elbow because I was too clever by half. Measure twice, cut onc......just start drilling. Anyway, I figured I managed to create a big vacuum leak. That wasn't it either but that potential future problem from stupid is now fixed.

Anyhoo.....while attempting to start the car again, I forgot to connect the brake booster and fuel pressure vacuum hoses. The car started, ran smoothly and promptly died. I figured I flooded it and check the plugs to verify after it wouldn't start. Gave up on it that night but figured I had it fixed. Next day, still wouldn't start. I ended up wiggling the ignition control module plugs/wires and it started right up but it was back to the random *SNAP* and *POP* and *CRACK*.

I think I have a wiring issue in the ignition control wiring. I rerouted it into the passenger compartment and there is some of the wires that are folded back over themselves as a result. Some of the tires have a foil like wrap on them too. Is there a chance that I'm creating some sort of interference that's causing it to randomly fire?

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #341 of 350 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 07:46 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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It's possible; the wires that are shielded on my car are the cam sensor and crank sensor; probably on yours too.

Both of those signals are sensitive to edges, or transitions in the signal, not a voltage level; so this is a good place to look.

They care about When it changes, not What it is or changes to. (A TPS wants and tracks a voltage; the crank sensor wants to know when the timing mark passes.)

These voltages are from magnetic reluctance sensors, so they are tiny.(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variab...uctance_sensor)
This is a fancy name for a coil of wire, wound around a pole piece; some of the pole pieces are magnetic, some are not, and if that's not correct it won't work. I think they all have magnets now.

To check the circuitry wiring, the best way is to untape them and separate them as far as you can from each other, and everything else. Then see what happens.
You can then wiggle individual wires, and see what effect it has.

You can replace those with Coax cables, but it needs to be rugged stuff to handle the heat. And it's a pain.

Covering them with aluminum foil with a bare (ground) wire to a bolt on the chassis should reshield them as good as you can for troubleshooting purposes.
Just wrap the foil around the wire, with a piece of bare wire crumpled inside; that will work for a few days without solder or whatnot.
It will eventually corrode where the copper hits the foil and lose the grounding effect, so then you rip it out and do it again with fresh foil/wire.

I use some of this stuff, that I rescued from a dumpster after it was removed from a project: https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppag...tgroup_id=7902
Aluminum foil works just as good, but it's hard to solder to.

Another thing I do to sensitive electronics, is take a large heavy AC drill or side grinder that sparks a bunch, and hold it nearby, hitting the trigger, and see if it screws up when you hit the trigger; nothing causes interference than an old 15A drill sparking next to it.

Doing that may give you an easy check, and after you separate the wires, pinpoint where the problem is.

A handheld 'taser-like' device works well too.

If the ignition triggers in time to the interference, it's a pickup problem for sure.

You might also try the AM radio check.
Find an old AM battery powered radio, tune it to a blank spot, and with the car running, wave it around and see where you pick up noise. If you hear the ignition coming thru, you have a spark leak Somewhere; it will get louder the closer you are to the source.
(I use this a lot on electronic interference problems; some of my preamp prototypes have shut down all the cell phones in an area before.)

If you hear other noises, suspect the grounds; that means a fast moving signal is taking a longer path back to ground than it should.
Sticking the antenna inside the loop formed by the signal from source to ground makes that one louder.
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Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #342 of 350 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
It's possible; the wires that are shielded on my car are the cam sensor and crank sensor; probably on yours too.

Both of those signals are sensitive to edges, or transitions in the signal, not a voltage level; so this is a good place to look.

They care about When it changes, not What it is or changes to. (A TPS wants and tracks a voltage; the crank sensor wants to know when the timing mark passes.)

These voltages are from magnetic reluctance sensors, so they are tiny.(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variab...uctance_sensor)
This is a fancy name for a coil of wire, wound around a pole piece; some of the pole pieces are magnetic, some are not, and if that's not correct it won't work. I think they all have magnets now.

To check the circuitry wiring, the best way is to untape them and separate them as far as you can from each other, and everything else. Then see what happens.
You can then wiggle individual wires, and see what effect it has.

You can replace those with Coax cables, but it needs to be rugged stuff to handle the heat. And it's a pain.

Covering them with aluminum foil with a bare (ground) wire to a bolt on the chassis should reshield them as good as you can for troubleshooting purposes.
Just wrap the foil around the wire, with a piece of bare wire crumpled inside; that will work for a few days without solder or whatnot.
It will eventually corrode where the copper hits the foil and lose the grounding effect, so then you rip it out and do it again with fresh foil/wire.

I use some of this stuff, that I rescued from a dumpster after it was removed from a project: https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppag...tgroup_id=7902
Aluminum foil works just as good, but it's hard to solder to.

Another thing I do to sensitive electronics, is take a large heavy AC drill or side grinder that sparks a bunch, and hold it nearby, hitting the trigger, and see if it screws up when you hit the trigger; nothing causes interference than an old 15A drill sparking next to it.

Doing that may give you an easy check, and after you separate the wires, pinpoint where the problem is.

A handheld 'taser-like' device works well too.

If the ignition triggers in time to the interference, it's a pickup problem for sure.

You might also try the AM radio check.
Find an old AM battery powered radio, tune it to a blank spot, and with the car running, wave it around and see where you pick up noise. If you hear the ignition coming thru, you have a spark leak Somewhere; it will get louder the closer you are to the source.
(I use this a lot on electronic interference problems; some of my preamp prototypes have shut down all the cell phones in an area before.)

If you hear other noises, suspect the grounds; that means a fast moving signal is taking a longer path back to ground than it should.
Sticking the antenna inside the loop formed by the signal from source to ground makes that one louder.
More digging does indicate that this is it. There is the concern of the aluminum shielding and then there is the concern of having any of it too close to the wiring for the alternator or the alternator itself.

I think I may be on to something because I also found this: https://forums.corral.net/forums/gen...shielding.html

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #343 of 350 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 09:25 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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I'd see if the local lowes or homedepot has any 18awg Shielded wire; something with a nice heavy braid.

It has to be stranded, or it will break, but for garage troubleshooting, you could use TV coax cable. IIRC, you'd need two pieces of coax to replace 1 of the wires. (2 signal wires, +ground.)

It's important the entire wire is covered with shielding, and the shield is grounded good to the signal ground, as the stock one is.

I believe those are two signal wires, covered with the mylar/aluminum foil shield, which is connected to a third pin, which is ground at the eec.

The shielding touching ground somewhere else can cause problems too, so make sure it's not touching somewhere else.

Some shields are connected at one end only, some are both ends, I'd duplicate the factory setup.

I have a couple of rolls of wire that would be perfect for that, I thinks it's alarm wire, or maybe some kind of lighting wire. The heavy braided ground is the important part.

The factory shielding is fragile, so it's not hard to mess up without massive rewiring.

If you've got a stretch without shielding, I'd start there, that's a problem for sure.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #344 of 350 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
I'd see if the local lowes or homedepot has any 18awg Shielded wire; something with a nice heavy braid.

It has to be stranded, or it will break, but for garage troubleshooting, you could use TV coax cable. IIRC, you'd need two pieces of coax to replace 1 of the wires. (2 signal wires, +ground.)

It's important the entire wire is covered with shielding, and the shield is grounded good to the signal ground, as the stock one is.

I believe those are two signal wires, covered with the mylar/aluminum foil shield, which is connected to a third pin, which is ground at the eec.

The shielding touching ground somewhere else can cause problems too, so make sure it's not touching somewhere else.

Some shields are connected at one end only, some are both ends, I'd duplicate the factory setup.

I have a couple of rolls of wire that would be perfect for that, I thinks it's alarm wire, or maybe some kind of lighting wire. The heavy braided ground is the important part.

The factory shielding is fragile, so it's not hard to mess up without massive rewiring.

If you've got a stretch without shielding, I'd start there, that's a problem for sure.
I think the shielding is certainly something to check but one of the things I was just reading mentioned the wiring being too close to the alternator. I just checked and my wire bundle was sitting right behind the alternator. I have relocated it so that it doesn't come near the alternator.

Here's the thing; when I relocated all of it, IIRC, the cable bundle routed across the core support to the passenger side air box area. It basically went around the world. When I relocated it I took the most direct route and that it right up against the alternator.

It's too late to test tonight but I'll give it a shot when I get home from work tomorrow evening.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #345 of 350 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 10:35 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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I can see the alternator messing it up; especially if there's a loop of wire in the bundle.

The alt is a big magnet spinning around in an aluminum housing that won't shield the magnetism, so there a spinning signal generator right by your wires, probably making pulses of it's own, randomly related to the real timing signals.

Foil or braid wire shielding does nothing to magnetic fields; I've designed circuitry to go in an MR scanner, lol.

The easy check is to disconnect the alt wiring; that will take 30 seconds with a 8mm.
Stick a charger on the batt to be sure.

It should run for a while with no alt anyway, and if the problem goes away, that's the problem.

If you have a piece of 1/8" wall steel tubing to run the wires thru, that should shield it.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #346 of 350 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 04:47 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
I can see the alternator messing it up; especially if there's a loop of wire in the bundle.

The alt is a big magnet spinning around in an aluminum housing that won't shield the magnetism, so there a spinning signal generator right by your wires, probably making pulses of it's own, randomly related to the real timing signals.

Foil or braid wire shielding does nothing to magnetic fields; I've designed circuitry to go in an MR scanner, lol.

The easy check is to disconnect the alt wiring; that will take 30 seconds with a 8mm.
Stick a charger on the batt to be sure.

It should run for a while with no alt anyway, and if the problem goes away, that's the problem.

If you have a piece of 1/8" wall steel tubing to run the wires thru, that should shield it.
Well, like I said, I just moved the wire so that it takes a different route to get to the distributor where it doesn't pass by the alternator at all.
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"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
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1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

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-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
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post #347 of 350 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 12:13 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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I'd never considered the alternator as a source of magnetic interference; I'd bet this is it, and I'd have probably never thought of it.

I won't forget now, tho.

The fields in the alternator are a lot stronger than the fields driving the sender.

That explains why ford spent money on extra wire.

Does the 5.0 have a crank and distributor trigger, or just the distributor? IDK why it would need both...

My only question now is: did it help?

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #348 of 350 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 12:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
I'd never considered the alternator as a source of magnetic interference; I'd bet this is it, and I'd have probably never thought of it.

I won't forget now, tho.

The fields in the alternator are a lot stronger than the fields driving the sender.

That explains why ford spent money on extra wire.

Does the 5.0 have a crank and distributor trigger, or just the distributor? IDK why it would need both...

My only question now is: did it help?
It's just a distributor.

I'll find out tonight.
Grog6 likes this.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #349 of 350 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MaddMartigan View Post
It's just a distributor.

I'll find out tonight.
Boo!

Same problem.

I have some heavy duty aluminum tape so I guess I'll try that next.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #350 of 350 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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So, it must be a wiring issue. I took apart the "bundle" for the ignition control module to the distributor/coil and ECM. The foil is generally intact and it appears that Ford just put a bare ground wire in place and then wrapped it with foil tape. I had a part of it that was a bit messed up so I wrapped it in some aluminum tape that I have.

Looking through my schematics, it appears that the tachometer connection sits on the other end of a resistor where T/Y is converted to W/PK. I guess I need to track that all down and figure out the right way to wire in the tachometer.

I was incorrect about the wire routing across the front of the engine. What it did was route the power for the ignition (R/LG) across the core support to the PCM relay and a fuse in the fuse box under the hood. That's a constant power feed versus a switched power feed. I honestly I don't know if I had that wired up correctly really because I had the standalone R/LG wired to my switched fuse box instead.

Dammit. It's late so I'm going to bed.
Grog6 likes this.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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