Project Resurrection - Page 9 - TCCoA Forums
 215Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #241 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 09:38 AM
Road warrior extrodinaire

Super Moderator
 
Trunk Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: This week: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 11,665
Garage
Looks great! What amazing work you put into that resurrection. Shoot a video of the startup! I'd like to hear it run.

Thanks.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto
Trunk Monkey is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #242 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 11:21 AM
Kind of slapped together
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bossier City, LA
Age: 63
Posts: 4,788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
Looks great! What amazing work you put into that resurrection. Shoot a video of the startup! I'd like to hear it run.

Thanks.
For that matter, so would I!

RwP

Fuelly
RalphP is online now  
post #243 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 31
Posts: 3,485
Garage
Fuel pressure test today revealed that I didn't installed the O rings on the fittings for my Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator. So, after some cussing and realizing that it's a pretty tight area, I got my gorilla hands in there and pulled the regulator and installed the O rings on the fittings. Now I have a 40psi of fuel goodness at the regulator with key on. Tomorrow night is the night I attempt to start it.

I've attached two pics; one is the very first engine compartment pic and the other one is from tonight. There is a bit of a difference for sure.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20180609_212438.jpg (478.1 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190402_190654.jpg (706.3 KB, 7 views)

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #244 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 09:06 PM
Road warrior extrodinaire

Super Moderator
 
Trunk Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: This week: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 11,665
Garage
Nice... A lot of work into that hole.
MaddMartigan likes this.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto
Trunk Monkey is offline  
post #245 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 11:11 AM
Humble MN12 Genius
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Posts: 16,395
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
I love before/afters, you went a long way in a really short time
MaddMartigan and Grog6 like this.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #246 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 31
Posts: 3,485
Garage
Well, it's a swing and miss. I tried to start it and it's a no go. I verified that I'm getting fuel pressure and spark. I have a Noid set for the fuel injectors and I am not getting a pulse on the fuel injectors. I checked the throttle position sensor and I am getting voltage through the range (~.1v to ~.97v). I'm not exactly sure where to go from here but between you guys and my other abilities to research things I hope to find it. I do have a ODB-I code scanner so I can try that too.

On another sour note, my clutch is not fully disengaging when I press the clutch pedal in which I learned when trying to start it. I guess I need to bleed the clutch again too.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #247 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 09:28 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tinton Falls, NJ
Age: 36
Posts: 7,388
Garage
Send a message via AIM to MadMikeyL
The injectors all have a common power feed from the EEC relay, and then they are ground side controlled by the computer. Check to see if you have key on power on the red wires going to the injectors. If you don't then you will have to trace that back. If you do have power, but the computer is not firing the injectors, then either the computer is seeing a WOT signal from the TPS, or the computer is fried, but I suspect more likely you will find no power going to the injectors, especially since you pared down the harness, maybe something got put back in the wrong pin on one side or something like that.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
-"Your buddy Mike is INSANE!" -ClintD's dad
MadMikeyL is offline  
post #248 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 31
Posts: 3,485
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
The injectors all have a common power feed from the EEC relay, and then they are ground side controlled by the computer. Check to see if you have key on power on the red wires going to the injectors. If you don't then you will have to trace that back. If you do have power, but the computer is not firing the injectors, then either the computer is seeing a WOT signal from the TPS, or the computer is fried, but I suspect more likely you will find no power going to the injectors, especially since you pared down the harness, maybe something got put back in the wrong pin on one side or something like that.
Yeah, that sounds about right. I had done some other reading and that lines up. Thanks for confirming the first suspicion.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #249 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 01:34 PM
Road warrior extrodinaire

Super Moderator
 
Trunk Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: This week: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 11,665
Garage
It's scary when the Mad and Madd scientists put their heads together!
MaddMartigan and CDsDontBurn like this.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto
Trunk Monkey is offline  
post #250 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 31
Posts: 3,485
Garage
Progress is made. The 12V power wire that powered the part of the harness that ran the fuel injectors among other things was mismatched at the bulkhead harness. I guess I was just drunk on several of those days.

The good news is that I am getting 12v power at the injectors now. When I try to the car it does act like it wants to start occasionally. The bad news is that it still doesn't start. I have verified that I'm getting spark. I now know that I'm getting fuel. The strange thing is that occasionally the engine diesels after stopping the start for a very short bit and only occasionally.

Before I jump into the PITA OBD-I code scanner, does anyone have some thoughts?

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #251 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 08:01 PM
Road warrior extrodinaire

Super Moderator
 
Trunk Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: This week: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 11,665
Garage
What fuel is in it? Did you purge the lines after cleaning out the tank? Change the in-line fuel filter?

Just grasping at straws but sometimes it's something simple ...

Is the octane adequate? I'd be concerned about dieseling.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto
Trunk Monkey is offline  
post #252 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 08:10 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tinton Falls, NJ
Age: 36
Posts: 7,388
Garage
Send a message via AIM to MadMikeyL
Is the tune and everything on the motor the same as it was installed in the other car? Try unplugging the MAF to see if it makes it any better or worse. Look for a massive vacuum leak, like the PCV line or brake booster line unplugged, as that could throw the air/fuel ratio off enough to prevent it from starting.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
-"Your buddy Mike is INSANE!" -ClintD's dad
MadMikeyL is offline  
post #253 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 31
Posts: 3,485
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
What fuel is in it? Did you purge the lines after cleaning out the tank? Change the in-line fuel filter?

Just grasping at straws but sometimes it's something simple ...

Is the octane adequate? I'd be concerned about dieseling.
  • 93 Octane Fuel
  • Brand new lines from the tank to the FPR and rails
  • Brand New Fuel Filter
  • Octane is adequate
  • No fuel leaks now either

I'm sure that it's some else dumb.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #254 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 31
Posts: 3,485
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
Is the tune and everything on the motor the same as it was installed in the other car? Try unplugging the MAF to see if it makes it any better or worse. Look for a massive vacuum leak, like the PCV line or brake booster line unplugged, as that could throw the air/fuel ratio off enough to prevent it from starting.
It's the same ECM that ran the car when I removed it. Same chip in it as well. I don't think I have a massive vacuum leak but I can look. I did notice that if I open the throttle wide open when trying start it that it behaves slightly different.

I'll give unplugging the MAF a try. What do you think of removing the SPOUT to see if it's a distributor issue (I read that somewhere)?

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #255 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 08:33 PM
Newbie
 
Zep5.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 11
Garage
I'm sure you've already checked, but it almost sounds like the distributor is 180* off ( TDC exhaust)
Zep5.0 is online now  
post #256 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 31
Posts: 3,485
Garage
OK, I plugged in my code scanner and pulled the codes. For completeness, I'll list everything it spit out in order:

511 No power to PCM pin 1 or bad PCM (processor) I have this connected straight to the battery circuit with a fuse. I *might* have it miswired. I'll check tomorrow.
122 TP low (possibly grounded or open circuit) – TPS No idea. I put in a new connector and it's wired exactly like the original. I checked this and the sensor is showing the full range of voltage as expected.
564 Fan Control (FC) circuit failure – A/C and Fan Circuits Expected
563 High Fan Control (HFC) circuit failure – A/C and Fan Circuits Expected
565 Canister Purge 1 solenoid/circuit failure – Solenoids Expected
511 No power to PCM pin 1 or bad PCM (processor) See above, it's a repeat but this may be significant.
122 TP low (possibly grounded or open circuit) – TPS See above, it's a repeat but this may be significant.
564 Fan Control (FC) circuit failure – A/C and Fan Circuits See above, it's a repeat but this may be significant.
563 High Fan Control (HFC) circuit failure – A/C and Fan Circuits See above, it's a repeat but this may be significant.
565 Canister Purge 1 solenoid/circuit failure – Solenoids See above, it's a repeat but this may be significant.
10 Spacer Code? No idea here.
512 Memory power (PCM pin 1) was interrupted – Was battery disconnected ? See code 511. This may be common based on my circuit wiring.

Could 511 be the one that doesn't allow the car to run? I know 122 could certainly do it but I don't think I have that wrong.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #257 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 31
Posts: 3,485
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zep5.0 View Post
I'm sure you've already checked, but it almost sounds like the distributor is 180* off ( TDC exhaust)
Definitely already checked. I've heard that backfire and it requires a change of clothes on this high compression engine.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #258 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 08:45 PM
Road warrior extrodinaire

Super Moderator
 
Trunk Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: This week: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 11,665
Garage
Cam timing?

Edit: Ah, I have no idea. You've clearly got more experience troubleshooting these things than I do. Fugetaboutit.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto
Trunk Monkey is offline  
post #259 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 31
Posts: 3,485
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
Cam timing?

Edit: Ah, I have no idea. You've clearly got more experience troubleshooting these things than I do. Fugetaboutit.
This is a pushrod engine. If my cam timing is off then I'm totally fucked. That's OK though. I feel good about that one. It's definitely something the wiring.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #260 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 31
Posts: 3,485
Garage
More consideration has been given.

I'm thinking bad TPS. I'll definitely check it tonight but it seems logical. I had this problem when I first built the engine 15+ years ago. That troubleshooting took a lot longer but now I have experience and people/information on my side.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #261 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 03:26 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 9,684
Garage
Sounds like it's a wiring issue to me; maybe a fuse.

The eec sends regulated 5V power to all these sensors that ain't working, just so they don't vary with the battery voltage, pretty much.

So that's why they don't work, I'd bet, no eec power, no sensors.

The TPS should be +5V, some voltage, and ground, if you don't have that, that's the deal. It's there Key On, if it's working right.

I'm pretty sure all the sensors are that way, that aren't controlled by the eec. (like the O2's would be)



I'd check connector ends First, to see if there's a pin that doesn't have a mate; that's easy to do, move one to the wrong spot.

You'll find it as the last thing you look at, unfortunately; when you find it, it'll fix it all, probably.



Something like this helps as a troubleshooting aid:



They're little voltmeters, ~$12 on amazon for 5 of them.

They measure whatever is on those two wires, and don't work under about 2.5V, so you can see easily when somethings dead.

I wrap them in tape, put a magnet on and more tape, and add ~4' of wire and some clips.

You can make a crib sheet that says RED=main, Blue=pump... and be able to just look around and see what it doing, while you're tracing.




Wire piercing probes for a voltmeter work, BUT: after you are thru, you have to rub RTV into any insulation holes you made. That keeps it from rusting in there.

And don't pierce it near the connectors, stay 4" back if possible.





If you think the timing is wrong, use an old school timing light, and check it vs the TDC mark. (You will want to verify TDC IF you think it's possibly off.)
That's about All a timing light is good for now, lol.




BTW: If you think it's 180 out, please don't tow it to speed, drop the clutch, and try to set the distributor while it's turning over. While tied in to the front of the vehicle, so you can't fall off. That never works. (that happened... I put him out with a powder fire extinguisher. That was a 5.0 cougar, 76 or so. )
MaddMartigan likes this.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is offline  
post #262 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 31
Posts: 3,485
Garage
I'm generally with you but as I take the time away from the car to think about it and research it I come back to the to find that:
  • TPS Reference Voltage measures at 5v
  • TPS signal voltage range is from about .3v to .96v
  • Pin 1 on the ECM is 12v so the code that there is no power to pin 1/ECM is bad may just mean that the ECM is bad

The car still won't start however. I am actually using the ECM that was in the during the crash and it did have a dented cover since it was on the side that took the hit. The car ran with that ECM when I pulled the engine. However, that doesn't preclude a bad ECM.

I definitely follow about all of the signal voltages but that line has proven to be consistently good. Little voltmeters on all of the sensors seems like a neat idea but I'm going to hold off for now.

I've referred to my EVTM and so far I'm seeing everything I expect to see.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #263 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 06:59 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 9,684
Garage
If you have the voltage on the pin, and it says no voltage, I'd suspect a spread contact, or a cracked solder joint in the eec.

Depending on skills, you might fix it with a pick tool or soldering iron. Or not, depending.

I'd want a spare, even if I fixed one, tho.

I have a spare eec I'd loan you, but it's eec-V for a 4.6l; not exactly helpful.


What about grounds? You can measure the outside of the eec to get an idea of its ground; more than .5 v is a problem.

Always reference ground measurements to the battery terminal; it's all downhill from there.

Loads make a difference; it can measure 12v just fine until you hit the starter. I'm sure you've been there before.

That's when I switch to mixed-mode cursing, alternating Egyptian with ancient Portuguese for effect; unintelligible to most humans, it will however blister paint at up to 40 paces.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote

Last edited by Grog6; 04-05-2019 at 07:04 PM.
Grog6 is offline  
post #264 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 08:47 PM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 31
Posts: 3,485
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
If you have the voltage on the pin, and it says no voltage, I'd suspect a spread contact, or a cracked solder joint in the eec.

Depending on skills, you might fix it with a pick tool or soldering iron. Or not, depending.

I'd want a spare, even if I fixed one, tho.

I have a spare eec I'd loan you, but it's eec-V for a 4.6l; not exactly helpful.
I actually have another ECM that I can use with the same catch code (T4M0). I can validate that tomorrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
What about grounds? You can measure the outside of the eec to get an idea of its ground; more than .5 v is a problem.

Always reference ground measurements to the battery terminal; it's all downhill from there.

Loads make a difference; it can measure 12v just fine until you hit the starter. I'm sure you've been there before.

That's when I switch to mixed-mode cursing, alternating Egyptian with ancient Portuguese for effect; unintelligible to most humans, it will however blister paint at up to 40 paces.
Well, I didn't scrimp on grounds. Since the battery is remote, it's grounded to the body. All of the grounds for the wiring inside the car are grounded at a common point that is a reliable ground (as evidenced by all of those things working properly). The fuse box under the hood also has a ground terminal group on it and I have it grounded to the body too. I generally feel good about the grounding system.

I'm feeling more and more like this might be a case of a bad ECM. It did take a pretty direct hit so it could be that.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #265 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 31
Posts: 3,485
Garage
Change ECM with same results. Same codes still no start.

On a side note, when you turn on the key, the fuel pressure should build from the pump and hold. How long should it hold? I may have a stuck fuel injector.

On a side note; I did not connect pin 30 on the ECM (R/LB) that connects to the start/run circuit and is listed as the Neutral Position sensor. Did I make a mistake not connecting it?

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U


Last edited by MaddMartigan; 04-06-2019 at 12:31 PM.
MaddMartigan is offline  
post #266 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 01:12 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tinton Falls, NJ
Age: 36
Posts: 7,388
Garage
Send a message via AIM to MadMikeyL
I just looked up the connector view, for a 95 Mustang GT, and it lists pin 30 as the transmission range sensor for automatic trans only. Since I believe you are using a 5-speed ECM, that pin wouldn't have had anything on it from the factory, and either way, that wouldn't stop it from starting.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
-"Your buddy Mike is INSANE!" -ClintD's dad
MadMikeyL is offline  
post #267 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 31
Posts: 3,485
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
I just looked up the connector view, for a 95 Mustang GT, and it lists pin 30 as the transmission range sensor for automatic trans only. Since I believe you are using a 5-speed ECM, that pin wouldn't have had anything on it from the factory, and either way, that wouldn't stop it from starting.
OK, that makes sense then. Yeah, I'm using a 5 speed ECM (94-95 SN95 T4M0 ECM) so I didn't think I needed it but since PNP will keep an automatic from starting I wanted to make sure I didn't miss something.

I'm running out of ideas. Any thoughts on the fuel pressure bleeding off fast? I feel like it's a stuck injector. The bright side is that those injectors are stupid cheap now.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #268 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 04:11 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tinton Falls, NJ
Age: 36
Posts: 7,388
Garage
Send a message via AIM to MadMikeyL
That will keep it from cranking only. If yours is cranking, which I assume it is since you were checking for injector pulse, then you are past that. A stuck injector is a possibility, as is a bad fuel pressure regulator. Start by crimping off the return line to see if the pressure still drops. If it stays high with the return line crimped, then suspect a bad regulator. If it still bleeds down with the return line crimped, then a sticking injector would be the next guess. In that case, I would say crank it over, then pull the spark plugs and see if one is wet. If it is, then that is your sticking injector.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
-"Your buddy Mike is INSANE!" -ClintD's dad
MadMikeyL is offline  
post #269 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 31
Posts: 3,485
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
That will keep it from cranking only. If yours is cranking, which I assume it is since you were checking for injector pulse, then you are past that. A stuck injector is a possibility, as is a bad fuel pressure regulator. Start by crimping off the return line to see if the pressure still drops. If it stays high with the return line crimped, then suspect a bad regulator. If it still bleeds down with the return line crimped, then a sticking injector would be the next guess. In that case, I would say crank it over, then pull the spark plugs and see if one is wet. If it is, then that is your sticking injector.
OK, that all makes sense. Sometimes I just have to do a sanity check.

I've attached a video of the start attempt.

https://youtu.be/kp1gTsraI3Y

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #270 of 308 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 05:01 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 9,684
Garage
It sounds like the timing isn't right.

Also, that's a 10:1 engine, and it doesn't sound especially hard to turn over; maybe your starter kicks ass, tho.

Is there a crank trigger on those, or is it all ran off the distributor?

What syncs the injectors and ignition? Check that feed.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome