Performance Pulleys (ChadG and Others) - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-09-2003, 12:37 AM Thread Starter
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Performance Pulleys (ChadG and Others)

Text below is originally taken from the TCCoA technical articles written by DanU. This has gone through our technical articles submission process at www.midwestthundercats.com/forums/ and was corrected and added to using suggestions of our group.

We confirmed all prices, websites and phone numbers as being current as well.
_____________________________________________


Performance Pulleys

Overdrive pulleys are for supercharged applications. There's not much to it. What you do is purchase a smaller pulley for the supercharger, which in turn spins the supercharger faster thus forcing more air into the engine. Be warned that this will increase intake air temps, which can lead to detonation and is also subject to the law of diminishing returns. (If the first 10% gives you 40HP, the next 10% won't give you another 40HP.)

Under Drive pulleys are for naturally aspirated applications. They consist of a smaller crank & larger alternator and water pump pulleys. The larger diameter of the accessory pulleys means that they’re spinning slower, and the smaller pulley on the crank makes up for the belt length difference. The slower spinning accessories reduce drag, thus drawing less power away from the crank. You retain the factory belt with under drive pulleys.

There are two types of crank pulleys that you can get with underdrive pulleys. The first is a "piggyback" style, which reuses the stock crank pulley as a harmonic balancer. These kits are cheaper, but add an additional rotating mass in front of your crank. These are also the only option for those of you with a 3.8 or 5.0 motor. The second type is the "standalone" style. These kits, while more expensive, integrate the harmonic balancer onto the crank pulley itself. You don't reuse your factory crank with these kits. These are overall the best option from companies like Steeda or ASP. On the SC 3.8 motors there are some other issues to be aware of that are addressed below.

For those of you who've been considering this mod here is a quick rundown on what to expect as far as installation:

Installation for the 4.6L is straightforward. You'll need an impact wrench and a crank pulley puller to be able to complete this job. You can purchase or rent either of these items from your local automotive store. The alternator nut is 23mm, and the crank bolt is 18mm. Be sure to use a 6 point socket to avoid rounding off the edges of the nuts/bolts.

Depending on the size of your impact wrench, you may be able to just remove your electric fan (where applicable) or you may need to move your radiator. If needed, you can remove the top mounting brackets for the radiator, and just push it up about 10". Put the radiator on blocks to hold it up while you work. It is also suggested that you put a piece of cardboard between the AC condenser and the radiator to protect them from rubbing. This saved a ton of time over removing the radiator.

On the supercharged 3.8 you can make use of under drives as well. There are a couple of things to be aware of, however that differ from the 4.6. The crank pulley and harmonic balancer are balanced as a unit from the factory. Meaning that if you just unbolt the stock crank pulley and bolt on the UD crank pulley you are going to have some balance issues. If you’re putting on UD’s you're probably putting out more power than stock, so replacing your stock balancer isn’t a bad idea anyway. As a side note, the bolt that holds the balancer onto the crank is 14 x 1.5. The bolt for the SC is discontinued, but you can use the bolt from the mustang 3.8.

Installation: You will have to remove your fan but not your radiator. If you go with the aftermarket HB then all you have to do is bolt on the UD crank pulley. The water pump is very easy also, just 4 bolts. You can get the alternator pulley off without actually removing anything with a breaker bar, a strap wrench, and a friend. Just wrap the strap wrench around the pulley to keep it from moving while your friend breaks the nut loose. Installation is just the reverse. If you keep the stock balancer then you need to have it and the UD pulley balanced as a unit before you install.

After the install, you should notice a big improvement in the low end, along with mid and high end acceleration too. Depending on your tranny condition and tires, you may be able to spin the tires from a complete stop and even chirp when shifting into 2nd after the pulley installation.

Temperatures have been noted to increase a small amount after pulley installation, but nothing critical at all. Usually the temperature spikes only occur when sitting idle on a hot day. This can be alleviated with a lower temp thermostat and lower fan kick-in from a chip.

Charging problems should be non-existent unless you're running thousands of watts through your sound system at idle. If you're really paranoid, you can shift into neutral while stopped, thus raising your RPM's a bit and returning you to full charge. Or you can add an overdrive pulley for your alternator that will compensate for the other pulleys.

Overall under drive pulleys may not make a huge difference in performance, but they're a relatively cheap mod that makes a difference none-the-less.

Companies:
March Performance (734) 729-9070 - http://www.marchperf.com/
Auto Specialties (877)928-8678 - http://www.autospecialties.com/
Steeda (954) 960-0774 - http://www.steeda.com/
Supercoupe Performance (513) 697-6501 - http://www.supercoupeperformance.com/

Piggyback Part Numbers & Prices (4.6L):
ASP - ASP527728 $129.95
FRPP (Blue Anodized March Pulleys) - M-8509-D462 $149.95
March - 1150 $129.95

Standalone Part Numbers & Prices (4.6L):
ASP - ASP527328 $199.95
Steeda - 701-0001 $169.95
March - 1185 $199.95

Standalone Parts Prices (3.8L)
SCP - $180

5.0 Thunderbirds

Nitride = ASP520125
Zinc = ASP620125
Hard coat black = ASP820125

Installation Guide: (4.6L)
http://www.mustangworld.com/ourpics/fcar/pull1.htm

Last Updated 8/10/03 0430AM


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Last edited by n0esc; 08-10-2003 at 04:34 AM.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-09-2003, 01:16 PM
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5.0 Thunderbirds

85-92 5.0 25% Crank, 15% Water Pump, 2 1/2" Alternator 950 RPM
Nitride = ASP520125
Zinc = ASP620125
Hard coat black = ASP820125

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-09-2003, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by n0esc

*Note: This does not apply for the 5.0 pullies or the 3.8*

There are two types of crank pulleys that you can get with under drive pulleys. The first is a "piggyback" style, which reuses the stock crank pulley as a harmonic balancer. These kits are cheaper, but add an additional rotating mass in front of your crank. The second type is the "standalone" style. These kits, while more expensive, integrate the harmonic balancer onto the crank pulley itself. You don't reuse your factory crank with these kits.

1991 Sport 5.0
4R70W Converted, U4P0/SCT Controlled
[email protected], 1.948 60' - 3450 lbs
RIP 1991-2006
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-09-2003, 11:39 PM
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Nice article, needs two things that I can see:

Change "too" to "to" in paragraph 1, sentence 2.
Change "your" to "you're" in paragraph 7, sentence 5.

Josh Keady

1994 Super Coupe ('93 5.0L swap), 1990 Tbird 3.8L, 1982 Honda CB900F, 1972 F-100 SportCustom 4x4, 1970 Chevy Custom Camper / 20
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2003, 04:35 AM Thread Starter
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Spelling corrections made... clarifications and prices for 5.0 motors added in paragraph 3


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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2003, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
There are two types of crank pulleys that you can get with underdrive pulleys. The first is a "piggyback" style, which reuses the stock crank pulley as a harmonic balancer. These kits are cheaper, but add an additional rotating mass in front of your crank. These are also the only option for those of you with a 3.8 or 5.0 motor

I believe the 5.0L kit from ASP is not a piggy back. Either that or I did something horribly wrong when I installed mine.

prices from ASP for 5.0L: Nitirde: $79.95
Zinc: $89.95
Hard Coat Black Alum.: $94.95

math > pasta
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2003, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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Ok then I am done making corrections until someone makes up their damn mind as to what is right. This is exactly why this moderating process was completed somewhere else or so I thought.

I had it written that way to begin with and someone posts to tell me that ection doesn't apply to the 3.8 or the 5.0... So I mae corrections pointing that out and now someone else tells me that it is that way on the 5.0...

Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo.


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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2003, 04:33 PM
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I do not know about any other brand. But the ASP pulleys I installed did not use the stock crank pulley for anything.

math > pasta
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2003, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not questioning you... Just the whole general process of someone posts something... someone corrects it with incorrect or incomplete information, and then someone corrects them with more information, possibly still not correct or complete, ad nauseum.

I will not make any further corrections or additions until someone else verifiys all compatability issues, types avalible, and corrects it.. Then I will add it to the article.

I own a 4.6. Its the only MN12 I've owned. It does not have under drive pulleys. I will not research this

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2003, 05:13 PM
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oh come one man, research is fun

jk, I know what you mean, and dont blame you.

math > pasta
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2003, 06:25 PM
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I was saying the two types of pulleys does not apply for the 3.8 and 5.0, for the 3.8 and 5.0 there is only one kind, and they replace the OEM pulleys and utilize the stock harmonic damper.

-J

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2003, 10:49 PM
 
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Not to mention, U/D pulleys can be used on forced induction applications too. So I would not stipulate that U/D pulleys are for naturally aspirated applications only.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2003, 11:24 PM Thread Starter
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That is addressed if you read it all and not skim it... Its not meant to be a cliffs notes version...

Its not set in stone, and my assumption would be that if you have progressed to the point of considering or installing FD then you are beyond the scope of the article.

U/D GENERALLY are used on non SC motors to slow accessories down and free HP...

OD pulleys are GENERALLY used on a SC to garner more airflow and psi.

Yes we understand that people mix UD and OD pullies in various combinations and percentages to achieve peak performance...

You want a paragraph covering that... Write it and I'll put it in there... I got roasted over an open pit for including too much information on the last post I started.. Now you are all whining because it doesn't address specific issues completely enough.

If we covered every single engine / pulley / induction method / percentage / stacked / standalone combo avalible to us, you would be reading a JW thesis on pulleys.

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2003, 11:34 PM
 
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I was not whining. Just mentioning. If you're going to get offended, then I'll delete my comment and someone else will make it in the future. I'm just providing information.

If I were writing this article, I would mention that OD pulleys are used on superchargers. Even that term is 'wrong' in a way. But whatever. I would also mention that U/D pulleys underdrive the accessories. You do not need to say that they are for naturally or unnaturally aspirated applications.

That's my piece. Excuse me for providing information.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-11-2003, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Its not set in stone, and my assumption would be that if you have progressed to the point of considering or installing FD then you are beyond the scope of the article.

I dont think we should assume anything. One of the reasons we are redoing the tech articles is so that we wont have to answer the same questions over and over again. If we just assume that everyone will know something, inevitably someone wont. and we'll end up answering it in the forums. And everyone will jump in and get pissy. Telling him to look in the tech articles or use the search feature (sound familiar?).

These need to be done the right way. No "we can go back and fix this or that later on." This IS "later on."

I dont mean to sound harsh, but we have complained so much about the tech articles. Now we have finally made the decision to sit down and fix them as a group. Everyone that has taken on a section deserves our thanks. Lets not half*** this.

math > pasta
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