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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
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How much hp does the stock fuelpump handle?
I did have a 100dry shot once on an all stock 97 lx but my current car is a 98lsc with exhaust and superchips tuner.
Im considering a dry zex kit again. What color wire is the signal wire from the tps?

Last edited by 94badbird; 01-17-2018 at 04:29 PM.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 07:55 AM
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How are you programming for the extra fuel on a dry kit?

I have an old school NOS brand wet kit I just removed from the Toyota. I need to sell it.

Al

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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by T6Rocket View Post
How are you programming for the extra fuel on a dry kit?

I have an old school NOS brand wet kit I just removed from the Toyota. I need to sell it.

Al
I would get a tune..
I ran my other car and kit for about 10 bottles then sold the car, all i did was put in copper plugs and i never had an issue.
On my current car i would if i had to do the fuelpump but forshur plugs,24s and a tune.
The zex kit had a control box. I think it did change things enough to make it safe. I also wont run a wet kit, too much hassle and when a failure happens it likes to pop.
My cash is tight as of now but i have some good parts to trade..although a wetkit scares me.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 09:51 AM
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I'd be more scared with a dry kit. Other than fooling the fuel mixtures by blowing the NO2 onto the intake air temp sensor in the inlet, what triggers the ECM to give more fuel?

From what I know, ZEX makes a really nice wet kit. If I put nitrous on a modular motor today, that is the kit that I would use. It monitors the fuel that is available and mixes the ratio of nitrous accordingly.

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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94badbird View Post
How much hp does the stock fuelpump handle?
I did have a 100dry shot once on an all stock 97 lx but my current mn12 is a 94lx with some bolt ons and i dont know if it has the same size fuelpump as a 97..
Also rather than dropping the exhaust and driveshaft can i take outthe rear bench and cut a hole in floor to access the fuel pump and just weld it back in spot, or i think id make an access door to it for the future.
Yes you can. The easiest way to fabricate a panel is to go to the JY and cut one out of a car slightly bigger than the hole you need to access the fuel pump.
That's what I did.

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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2017, 09:43 AM
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On a 125 and above that you may want to go to a larger pump. My ZEX dry kit with 125 shot ran on the stock pump for years. Anything above that and you would be pushing it. The box controls the flow to the injectors by raising the fuel pump pressure through the vacuum when the system is activated. Used properly it worked on my Stock NPI/PI swapped Bulitt motor for many years.

Colder plugs and some timing pulled on the nitrous tune also helps along with controlling bottle temperatures.

The nitrous feed line does not go by the intake charge sensor but at the front of the throat of the throttle body into the air intake system there.

I have since changed the fuel pump and installed an Aeromotive unit along with a 1/2" feed line and 1/8" return line.

When the car comes back out this fall it has all that in place from a previous install.

Steve
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Nitrous 11.75 @ 114 MPH

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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2017, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 1MTNCAT View Post
On a 125 and above that you may want to go to a larger pump. My ZEX dry kit with 125 shot ran on the stock pump for years. Anything above that and you would be pushing it. The box controls the flow to the injectors by raising the fuel pump pressure through the vacuum when the system is activated. Used properly it worked on my Stock NPI/PI swapped Bulitt motor for many years.

Colder plugs and some timing pulled on the nitrous tune also helps
along with controlling bottle temperatures.

The nitrous feed line does not go by the intake charge sensor but at the front of the throat of the throttle body into the air intake system there.

I have since changed the fuel pump and installed an Aeromotive unit along with a 1/2" feed line and 1/8" return line.

When the car comes back out this fall it has all that in place from a previous install.

" ... bottle temperatures." Pfft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by r429460 View Post
...
I don't need no stinken bottle.
What you really need is some of this:



But seriously, Steve (1MTNCAT) knows his stuff about Nitrous. He's the subject matter expert here. Go with what he says.

Hi Steve.

Don't forget to check your bottle temperature!


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See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto

Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 06-24-2017 at 04:30 PM.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2017, 04:59 PM
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Nitrous vapor pressure is pretty high over 50F; I don't really see a bottle warmer being a thing.

I'd want that shit as cold as possible, it has a higher density.

It also cools the intake charge a bit; the exhaust gets all the abuse, lol.


Wait: I Understand now. (I got sidetracked during this post, but I thought I'd leave that there...


Check out this:



This is from a rocket fuel discussion; if you're wondering about engine longevity, Aluminum is fuel, lol.

This graph basically says that there's a critical point that the state of the N2O is indeterminate.

You can't possibly guesstimate a tune/fuel mix for "indeterminate" so something breaks when it gets way too much of something.

Heating the bottle keeps it in the supercritical region, so it's always the same.

Below that temp, you can be sputtering liquid out in globs, and not know.

YMMV.

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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2017, 05:18 PM
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Yea, I've seen guys take portable blow torches to Nitrous bottles at the drag strip. It's way too much hassle for me to keep up with.

I'll just dump moonshine and gasoline in the tank and washer fluid in the methanol tank and go. Nitrous is way to complicated for my liking.

Nitrous refills are a bitch too. Which grade Nitrous do you use Steve? Where do you source it? How much is it for a bottle fill? How many runs or "hits" do you get out of a bottle on a 125 shot?

I did a quick search locally and found the following Nitrous refill prices. What do you usually pay Steve? I'll stick with washer fluid (~20% methanol) at $3 to $4 a gallon.

10 lb. bottle-$50
15 lb. bottle-$75
20 lb. bottle-$100

Fill ‘Er Up in 8 (Not So) Easy Steps
  • Cool off the race bottle.
  • Heat up the mother bottle, never using a flame.
  • Position the mother bottle at a higher elevation than the race bottle.
  • Connect the transfer line, filter, and fill valve to each bottle.
  • Open the mother bottle valve and fill valve.
  • Open the race bottle valve and listen for the nitrous entering the bottle. Close the valves to stop the flow of nitrous.
  • Weigh the race bottle and if necessary, continue filling until the correct bottle weight is achieved.
  • Close both bottle valves and disconnect the fill line, being careful that excess nitrous exiting the line doesn’t contact your skin.
It's also worth noting that:

Auto Grade Nitrous

Nitrous is used to speed engines for auto racing. High performance racing shops sell the tanks and feeder units to inject nitrous into the carburetors. They also sell bulk nitrous gas. But there is a catch: the gas is mixed, generally (always?) with hydrogen sulfide (the rotten egg gas) which will make anyone breathing it VERY ill. (There is evidence that hydrogen sulfide can cause permanent damage to lung tissues and nerve endings.)

One reader writes in:

... hydrogen sulfide (H2S) is one of the most dangerous neurotoxins there is. There have been reports of individuals going into a sewer and not testing for H2S and being DOA after only one lung full. It is incredibly nasty. It also causes olfactory overload with only one breath. In other words, you get one smell then you can't smell it any more so you don't realize that you are on your merry way to the grave. I would never do the auto grade of nitrous but if that is the way someone wants to go then bubble it through a lye (get it from the hardware store) and water - about 1 heaping tablespoon per qt. of water.

So before you can inhale racing grade nitrous, you must filter out the hydrogen sulfide. This is done by bubbling the gas through a strong basic solution: either lye or baking soda. Here are some comments on purification of nitrous. If you aren't a chemistry major, you should probably not fool around with auto grade nitrous.

Obtaining Nitrous Oxide

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See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto

Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 06-24-2017 at 05:32 PM.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2017, 09:23 PM
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What I run is general auto race grade Nitrous. Nothing more nothing less. Bottle temps at 950 for those wondering.

Far as R429460's comment, true he don't need "NO Stinkin Bottle", but he will after mine hits the track this season with out it.
End of discussion. BTW, Hello Rick!

It is somewhat of a pain dealing with (Nitrous) but I have for years and it has served me well with my stock motor application. We will see this year and next spring how the car works in the newly built 4.6L trim NA (NOT 5.3L) and on the Bottle before moving on further in its progression.

So the answer for those wondering. The build is near completion and will be out soon.

Steve
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"There's a bad, built NA 4.6L COMING Spring-Summer 2018"

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Cougar ET-Stock 4.6 shortblock/Stock PI headswap Bullitt NA 12.94 @ 105+
Nitrous 11.75 @ 114 MPH

2008 Ford Powerstroke 6.4 TT F250 4X4 Supercrew: 12.82 @ 105 MPH

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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2017, 09:51 PM
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I think you meant hello Ron.

950 PSI not 950°F right?

Good Deal Steve! Like a Phoenix back from the dead! I can't wait to see the Cat back in action... and of course the new numbers.

Any plans to get dyno numbers or are you just heading to the track? How are you tuning the new set up? is EECDOC doing the tuning for you?

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2017, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
I think you meant hello Ron.

950 PSI not 950°F right?

Good Deal Steve! Like a Phoenix back from the dead! I can't wait to see the Cat back in action... and of course the new numbers.

Any plans to get dyno numbers or are you just heading to the track? How are you tuning the new set up? is EECDOC doing the tuning for you?
Yep, 950 PSI Pressure.

Well be doing some tuning at some point as well as some track time once its all completed. I'm sure Doc will be helping out with all that.

Hope all is well with you. Be talking with you soon.

Steve
1996 Cougar XR7 Special Edition (Street & Strip)
"There's a bad, built NA 4.6L COMING Spring-Summer 2018"

Elite member of the Halfshaft snapping, Auburn eating, Tranny crunching, Piston Melting, Tire lifting, 500+ lb ft Torque Club.

Cougar ET-Stock 4.6 shortblock/Stock PI headswap Bullitt NA 12.94 @ 105+
Nitrous 11.75 @ 114 MPH

2008 Ford Powerstroke 6.4 TT F250 4X4 Supercrew: 12.82 @ 105 MPH

"IN MEMORY OF MY FRIENDS JOEL BENDER 1979-2006", JOHNNY LANGTON 1975-2011, and MICHAEL VIVERETTE 1953-2013"
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-25-2017, 06:41 AM
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-17-2017, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94badbird View Post
How much hp does the stock fuelpump handle?
I did have a 100dry shot once on an all stock 97 lx but my current mn12 is a 94lx with some bolt ons and i dont know if it has the same size fuelpump as a 97..
Also rather than dropping the exhaust and driveshaft can i take outthe rear bench and cut a hole in floor to access the fuel pump and just weld it back in spot, or i think id make an access door to it for the future.
Im considering a dry zex kit again. What color wire is the signal wire from the tps?
'
why wouldn't you go wet and put some torco accelerator in it to take care of the timing retard for nos....just saying no need for a custom tune.

drive fast!
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Time to revive the thread..
Im starting to collect parts..
Will 42lb injectors and 170lph fuel pump be good enough for 125 dry shot?
And for colder range plugs, should I use copper?
Upgrading my brakes already with drilled n slotted and carbonfiber/ceramic pads . and pbr front calipers.
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
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Lol this was started for my 94 bird I had I see.
The nos I want to put on my 98 lsc,so far it only has exhaust,air silencer delete and a superchips tuner.
Should I even bother with a cone filter for the nos? I will route it as a true cai too.
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2018, 12:22 PM
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I would run a wet shot. It adds the additional fuel with the NOS, just fine tune it with jetting. Then you don't even have to run larger injectors, or get a tune. But a bigger fuel pump would be a good idea.

Just guessing on a dry tune is dangerous. Too much fuel and you won't make any power. Too little fuel and you will get one pass and be done.

Al

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94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
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Previous Fords:
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96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2018, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
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I got 42lb injectors coming already..
Does a mark8 have a larger fuel pump than a tbird 4.6 ?
Also ive ran the dry zex kit on multiple cars as well as friends of mine and never one single issue . with supporting mods its a very safe kit.
It can be run stock damn near but I want it to last.
Would copper plugs be my best option then? Still a 4v noob.lol
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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2018, 07:58 PM
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Are you getting a proper tune to run the new MAF and injectors or are you going by the wrongful assumption that the MAF and injectors are paired? A wet kit is perfect for a 4V since the intake is aluminum, whereas you risk blowing up the plastic one on a 2V with a wet shot backfire

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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2018, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 94badbird View Post
I got 42lb injectors coming already..
Does a mark8 have a larger fuel pump than a tbird 4.6 ?
Also ive ran the dry zex kit on multiple cars as well as friends of mine and never one single issue . with supporting mods its a very safe kit.
It can be run stock damn near but I want it to last.
Would copper plugs be my best option then? Still a 4v noob.lol

Nah, he's pulling your leg. The MAF and injectors are paired you'll be fine. Also, he has the wet / dry kit thing backwards.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto
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post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2018, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
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Now that you mention it i should go lightning mafs with the 42s ..I plan on getting an xcal once I got all the parts..
I was before just talking about using the stock mafs but with a cone filter and adapter . but might as well go up a step since im spending the money on the xcal and tune..
I am ditching my canned tune tuner in favor of a custom and most aggressive tune it can run,lol
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post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2018, 08:48 PM
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Cool. Sounds like a plan.
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Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto
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post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2018, 11:09 PM Thread Starter
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Well,you guys teach me well...
I hope someday to have this beast crispy enough to bring to my 1st meet..
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post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-14-2018, 05:44 PM
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Just figured I would show the NOS set up on my 95 bird.
I run a progressive 200 shot with dual Walboro 250s for fuel controlled by a NOS Launcher with touch screen and logger for quick changes, and an MSD DIS-4 Plus to control timing retard rev limit and the IMRC opening @ 3400rpm
That is if I ever get the engine back in..
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