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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-13-2003, 11:51 PM Thread Starter
 
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NOS info.

I'm not thinking about putting NOS on my car I was having a disscusion about it with a guy I wanted more specs on the stuff. Specifically the burn temp of NOS and things like that. Anyone know of a good site I could check out ?

Thanks
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-14-2003, 08:39 AM
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Yeah tell the guy its a non flammable gas and see if he beleves you, most people when u say its non flammable wont beleve you, also it is clearly marked on the bottle (Non Flammable Gas Oxidizer)

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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-16-2003, 04:59 PM
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Quote:

How Nitrous Oxide Systems Work

Chemical Properties

A nitrous oxide molecule is made up of 2 atoms of nitrogen and 1 atom of oxygen. By weight it is 36% oxygen (air is only 23.6% oxygen). At 70° F it takes 760 psi of vapor pressure to hold nitrous in liquid form. The critical temperature is 97.7° F; at this temp the vapor pressure can no longer hold the nitrous in liquid form. At this point the nitrous turns gaseous and will be at 1069 psi. As temperature rises further, so will pressure, but it will remain in gaseous form. If you intend to siphon liquid nitrous, it is important to keep the temperature below 97.7°. When liquid nitrous is released, it will go from 760 psi to 14.7 psi (normal atmospheric pressure). It will then begin to boil and rapidly expand; the pressure drop will cause the temperature to decrease. Nitrous boils at 129.1° below zero.

Combustion

Nitrous oxide does not burn, it is an oxidizer. It provides more oxygen, so more fuel can be burned, and the result is more power. The atoms in a nitrous oxide molecule are bonded together. The oxygen is not free, but fortunately the bond breaks down as temperature rises. At 565° F, the bond is broken and the oxygen is then free. Combustion temperatures are much more than 565°, so it's not a problem. By adding nitrous oxide to an engine, the total amount of oxygen is increased and other gasses that do not support combustion (mostly nitrogen) are decreased. This speeds the burn rate and requires less timing advance for peak output. It is hard from many people to grasp gaining power with less timing, but it's a fact. Peak cylinder pressure must occur at approximately 20°ATDC to make peak power. If you speed the burn rate, peak cylinder pressure will occur too soon. It is easy to run too much ignition advance with nitrous, but too much will not only hurt power, it can quickly bring a nitrous engine into detonation and destroy it.

Detonation

Nitrous will increase the chance of detonation. To keep the engine out of detonation, you must control the extra heat that nitrous makes. The easiest way to do this is to add more fuel. All nitrous systems come with rich jetting to give you a safe starting point. The extra fuel takes away heat and raises the detonation limit. Another way of controlling heat is with water injection. A well set up water injection system will allow you to run the chemically correct nitrous to fuel ratio, so the system will be more fuel-efficient. If you don't try to over do it, and keep the hp levels within reason, running slightly richer should be all you'll need to control detonation. Water injection and running richer will both reduce the power output, but raising the detonation limit will allow more nitrous to be used to get more power.

Nitrous-to-fuel Ratios

The chemically correct nitrous to gasoline ratio is 9.649:1, but that is too lean to run safely. The chemically correct air to gasoline ratio is 14.7:1, but at wide open throttle, we cannot run that lean without going lean. The problem is that every bit of oxygen does not find and mix with every bit of gasoline. Same goes for nitrous, you need a richer mixture to better the chances of the nitrous mixing with fuel. If a nitrous engine runs lean, it can destroy the engine in a matter of seconds. There must be enough fuel for the nitrous to react with, if there isn't, temperatures rise rapidly. The oxygen that couldn't react with fuel will oxidize any parts that get hot enough, and the next thing in line to burn is aluminum, so don't run lean.

Plate Systems

The most common systems are the spray bar type. A plate gets sandwiched between the carb and manifold. There are two spray bars in each plate, the upper one is nitrous oxide and the lower one is fuel. The nitrous sprays over the fuel to give a better nitrous fuel mixture. Plates are easy to install and provide good performance, but they are not the best. The nitrous must travel through the entire intake manifold. The longer it takes to get to the cylinders, the more it expands. The more room that nitrous occupies, the less of the normally aspirated mixture the engine will get. So the engine will make more power if the point of injection is as close to the cylinders as possible. Another problem with spray bars is when using larger kits; the motor will hesitate slightly when the nitrous is activated. When the nitrous first travels down the spray bar, it hits the dead end of the bar and sends a pulse backwards, which impedes flow. Once the system is running there are no problems, but that slight hesitation could cause tire spin. This reversion is mostly a problem on larger kits, around 300 hp or so.

Nozzle Systems

Also known as foggers (started by NOS Systems), the nozzle nitrous systems can produce much more power without any reversion problems. With this type of system, you must drill and tap each intake runner near the cylinder head and run at least 1 nozzle for each cylinder (many multiple stage systems will run more than 1 nozzle per cylinder). There is much more plumbing in a nozzle system, but they give better mixture (or fog), because the nitrous and fuel mix before they are injected. The high pressure nitrous breaks the fuel into a very fine mist. The point of injection can be very close to the cylinder for minimal expansion. In many cases, depending on how the nozzles are situated and aimed, the normally aspirated airflow will increase. So there are many advantages to the nozzle systems.

Cooling Effects

Cooler intake air is denser and contain more oxygen atoms per cubic foot. So cooler air will allow more fuel to be burned and intern make more power. A 10 degree drop in temperature can add 1 to 1.5% power to an engine. Nitrous oxide boils at -129°F and it will begin to boil as soon as it is injected. This can cause a 80° or so drop in manifold air temperature. Now if we are dealing with say a 400 hp engine, we can see well over 30 hp gained from the cooling effect alone. This cooling effect also helps the engine deal with detonation.

Average Power

If you were to build a 550 hp 350 Chevy, it would have to rev to 7000+ rpm to make that kind of power and only make power in a narrow rpm range. A nitrous injected 350 Chevy making 550 hp would make that power at a much lower rpm and higher average horsepower. So the nitrous engine will out perform the normally aspirated engine by a healthy margin. The reason is that nitrous flow remains constant no matter what rpm the engine is at. At lower speeds there is more time for the nitrous to fill the cylinders, so you get more nitrous in the cylinders per power stroke at lower rpm. This will boost power more at low rpm (before the engine is in it's power band). As rpm increases, and gets in the power band of the engine, you will get less nitrous per power stroke, but the engine will start making more normally aspirated power. This really flattens out the torque curve and widens the power band.

So Why Not Pure Oxygen?

Air has only 23.6% oxygen by weight, the rest is made up largely of nitrogen. That nitrogen does not aid in combustion at all, but it does absorb and carry heat away. When you add nitrous, it has 36% oxygen with the rest being nitrogen. So the more nitrous oxide you add, the less percentage of nitrogen is available to absorb heat. That is why nitrous increases engine heat very rapidly. If we were to add pure oxygen (which has been tried), the percentage of nitrogen would fall much faster as more oxygen was added. We would not be able to add much oxygen before heat was a problem to control. Also compressed oxygen is in a gaseous form, so adding oxygen takes up more room and reduces normally aspirated power, and the amount of nitrogen from it. By injecting liquid nitrous, the normally aspirated power only drops slightly and it is adding oxygen and nitrogen. To put it simply, with nitrous oxide, we can get more oxygen atoms in the engine and have a lot more nitrogen as well. Nitrous can make much more power before heat is uncontrollable.

The above information was taken from here. I haven't read all of it, so I cannot vouch for the correctness of it all. However, it's a 'tech article,' so one can assume it's been reviewed a few times on the website.

*shrug*


Hope that helps out somehow.

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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-16-2003, 08:31 PM
 
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Please call is Nitrous. NOS is a brand.
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-17-2003, 12:14 AM
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Hey, Chad...how much do you think NOS paid to have the biggest movie advertisement ever by having everybody in the script of The Fast and the Furious refer to it by their brand name?

66dvlbrd68, awesome nitrous write up. Definately addressed every aspect of the substance with good, technically sound data.

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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-17-2003, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BIG PETE
Hey, Chad...how much do you think NOS paid to have the biggest movie advertisement ever by having everybody in the script of The Fast and the Furious refer to it by their brand name?

66dvlbrd68, awesome nitrous write up. Definately addressed every aspect of the substance with good, technically sound data.

Pete
I wish I could say it was mine ... but it isn't. I made a link at the bottom of my first post ... definitely have to give credit where credit is due.


As for the NOS thing ... I've always asked for a Coke when I go to fast food joints, even if all they have is Pepsi. Coke is also the 'store brand Cola' that you can get at any place like Wal-Mart or your local super market. I ask for Kleenex to blow my nose, even if it's not a Kleenex product.

Nitrous OXIDE is the proper term if you really wanna get technical ... but ... everyone shortens it to nitrous. The whole F&F movie blew nitrous oxide to hell ...

I've called it NOS for a long time, as most of the places here in town only SOLD NOS brand systems. Now there's NX, Zex ... and a few more.

If Nitrous Express had been around for the longest time ... that movie might have referred to it as "I need NX ... I need NX ... Make it two! And Harry, I need it by tonight."


Not trynig to start a big war (this has been discussed before on these boards) or hijack this thread. Just making a statement ... for what it's worth.

*not directed at anyone in this thread or other wise*
Keep the personal shots on my statement off the boards, if there are any. That's what PM's are for.



in any case, glad my nerd skills on the Internet helped out and found a good article.

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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-17-2003, 12:36 AM
 
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Yeah it's not the end of the world or anything, just something that gets to me.
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-17-2003, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by chadg
Yeah it's not the end of the world or anything, just something that gets to me.
Believe me, man...I'm the same way.

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Ran @ Normal Operating Temps, No Race Tune, No Setup Changes from Daily Driven Configurations
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3805 Lbs, Stock Exhaust Manifolds
Density Altitude = 4132'
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-17-2003, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by chadg
Yeah it's not the end of the world or anything, just something that gets to me.
I got ya ... some people get real upset by it. I try to ignore it. Unless it's an OBVIOUS dumbarse that's sporting NOS everything on his ride, including somehow owning NOS brand fire extinguishers ...




Hopefully the above info is right ... so's we can all learn something new about 'throttle in a bottle.'

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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-17-2003, 12:40 AM
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Believe me, the info above was great and every bit true. Matched up exactly with the stuff we studied in some engineering classes. *Sigh* Nitrous is a really beautiful thing...

Pete

-97 XR-7
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Ran @ Normal Operating Temps, No Race Tune, No Setup Changes from Daily Driven Configurations
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3805 Lbs, Stock Exhaust Manifolds
Density Altitude = 4132'
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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-17-2003, 11:52 AM
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NOS = NEW OLD STOCK

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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-18-2003, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks 66dvlbrd68 That was some great info !!!
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-19-2003, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 5.0 Chero
NOS = NEW OLD STOCK
hehehehhe been there DONE THAT...hehehheh especially tryin to fix that purple thing in my avatar.. heheh
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-19-2003, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 66dvlbrd68


I got ya ... some people get real upset by it. I try to ignore it. Unless it's an OBVIOUS dumbarse that's sporting NOS everything on his ride, including somehow owning NOS brand fire extinguishers ...




Hopefully the above info is right ... so's we can all learn something new about 'throttle in a bottle.'


VERY NICE INFO 66dvlbrd68.


PhotobucketNitrous and boost go together like peanut butter and jellyPhotobucket


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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-19-2003, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by chadg
Please call is Nitrous. NOS is a brand.
I need NOS!!!! 1, no 2 bottles.."Brian, NOS isnt for amatuers"....

sorry couldnt resist..."was that fun? cuz now me and the mad scientist have to tear apart the engine block and pull out the piston rings you just fried".

i have to correct the kids at work all the time, especially when they talk about NOS ZEX kits for thier acuras.




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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-19-2003, 11:35 PM
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hehehe its always..


he running a fiddy shot uh NOS..
"really???? NOS??? is that the brand??"
what? what u mean?
"hehehe... NOS is a brand, like ZEX, NX, Edelbrock has one now.. "
I don't know.. just NOS..
"oh, just a 50 shot.. ehh.. that's right 4 cyl honda right?"
no no no, lancer evolution...
"oh.. 4 cylinder.. turbo evo.. hehhe ok"
it's fast. it does 13.2 in the quarter...
"ok... whatever..it says 13.4-13.6 everywhere else.. but ok"

typical conversation at work...........
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-20-2003, 12:20 AM
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wait i got one for ya.

kid at work has a 'Teg GS auto...dropped it, got 450$ Tanabe exhaust and dude i got my "intake" put in, its crazy, AEM series 2. I had it put on for like 50$. *IQ drops 5 points*. Dude, i got my OBX header today, im gonna pay someone 75$ to put it on, i got stainless because ceramic is useless, my car is gonna go 15.9 in the quarter, watch you'll see...yes he actually told me that *IQ drops 5 more points*. Then, oh this is the best one..."Joe im gonna get a shift kit just like your car" i wanna chirp 2nd gear *officially dumbed down for the day*. Another kid informs me that my car doesnt have enough torque to pull his accord out of a parking space..he is kindly informed that a tow strap from my car will be tied to his axle shafts, dont worry i have enough torque.
I think this thread has been jacked...

joseph




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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-20-2003, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
 
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LMAO at all you guys, it's sad but true. What's with those people?
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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-22-2003, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by scott
LMAO at all you guys, it's sad but true. What's with those people?

not much, well brain power that is. The kid with the acura doesnt like to get his hands dirty. He has everything from his Denso plugs to wire loom put in for him. Come on, the kid paid someone to put his intake tube in. Well the kid with the accord wants to sell his Nitto NT555s because the shop he got them at says they are as close to a race tire as you can get..he wants to sell them and get something shorter, cuz a 225/40/18 is just so frickin tall. Do you know how many times a day they ask me how to get thier car to "chirp 2nd gear" or go faster than me...oh BTW, i ran a 15.5 in the ultra hot and humid south florida july heat, im hoping for a wee bit faster in october after dennis' 4R and hopefully get my gears and trac lok in...

joseph




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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-22-2003, 03:13 PM
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Tell him the best way to get it to chirp second is to attach a chain to your bumper and when yours does it, his will feel like it did it too!!!

Dumb Arses!!!

Man whats the world coming too. Sounds like some of the crap I've heard at the track where I run, from some of them.

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-22-2003, 05:28 PM
 
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My work is full of ricers. The problem is, a couple of them are pretty fast. I have a guy in my section that has a Sentra Spec V, and it's pretty quick, but he can't shift gears for anything, so I beat him every time. I actually think his car could outrun mine if he could drive. He's pretty realistic about it though, he knows his cold air intake didn't give him 30 HP, and his fart pipe actually hurt him.
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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-25-2003, 11:31 AM
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Rich,

those Spec 5s have a factory 6 speed so im thinkin the double OD could throw down on the triple digit area. Im not too impressed by those cars though, i flipped through an Import Tuner(keep your allies close and your enemies closer) and read that the car puts down about 140 at the front tires, that means about 35hp got lost between the crank, transaxle and tires.....makes you wonder.

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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-25-2003, 11:44 AM
 
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if i see one more 87 hinda civic with a supra wing and type r stickers i am going to run it off the road. they give the abda$$ compacts a bad rep. i can respect the evo, wrx, srt4, and any car that is truly modified, not just a tip from pep boyz. lord will it end.
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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-30-2003, 12:29 PM
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NUFF SAID...

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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-01-2003, 02:28 PM
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Check out the latest issue of Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords. They have a great in depth article on nitrous and tips on how to safely and properly use it. I'm thinking about photocopying it and distributing copies to all the "nawss" lovers that I know.

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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-06-2003, 07:55 AM
 
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how bout takin the bottle and turning it upside down and fabbing a manifold so it pours into the intake. have a nice hole in the hood so the bottle sticks through it.
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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-06-2003, 02:03 PM
 
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2 more good ricer conversations this weekend.

1st one: Yeah, my 88 Supra Turbo put out 230 stock, and my buddy and I just ported and polished the head, so it should be well over 300 now.

Me: Oh yeah, what else did you do to it? Cams, Exhaust, anything?

Him: No just ported and polished the head

Me: Just walked away

Spec V driver: Yeah, I run 14's in the quarter

Kenneth: Really, what all you got done?

Him: Ported and Polished heads, pulleys, intake and exhaust.

Kenneth: No Nitrous

Him: No

Kenneth: You're talking about the 1/8 mile then, right?

Him: Just drives away
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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-07-2003, 09:27 AM
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yeah , but the way the ricers say it is NAS, I tell them no NAS is a rapper.


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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-07-2003, 09:36 AM
 
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yeah , but the way the ricers say it is NAS, I tell them no NAS is a rapper.

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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-29-2003, 10:32 AM
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These ricers just think there so cool.I have a few kids that come out to our track all the time and think there fast.I raced this one kid with a civc with a 75 shot and i still killed him.His car was bone stock except for the juice.I still beat him i ran a 15.6 to his 17.00 . It was funny as hell.
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