Nitrous Advice, I am really clueless now??? - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-16-2004, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
 
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Nitrous Advice, I am really clueless now???

I am friggin lost now.

I just got off the phone with Dennis Reinhart, and I need some advice or clarification, I called to ask him how much a nitrous/street chip would cost me, and if he'd give me any credit towards a new chip since I already have one burned for 80mm lightning MAF.

When I asked about the nitrous chip, he asked me what kind of shot I would run, Wet or Dry? When I said dry, he told me that he cannot regulate the A/F ratio(or something to that effect) to ensure safety, and he said a wet system would be better for me. He was very nice and took time to make sure I wasn't confused, but I still am...

What I need to know before I buy the Zex Dry kit next Thursday is: Why is everyone saying dry is safer then, and a wet kit tends to blow up plastic intakes like Joels and others? And Dennis is saying that a Wet kit is safer. I am not try ing to start a pissing match here, I just need to know what to do.

Could you guys who have nitrous please post your set up Wet or Dry, and tell me what chip you have, and any advice on why this is so friggin conflicting.

Let me know what optimum A/F ratio is when running nitrous safely.

Thanks for all the help.

Dave

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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-16-2004, 06:20 PM
 
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I'm running a wet system.......intake go boom :-D

running a flashed EEC with a good N/A tune on it, running about 15 degrees of timing all the time....

There are better parts to both systems. Wet system is safer at higher rpms, as you are not as likely to go lean. A dry system will keep your intake in one piece.

Wet kits need to be sprayed no lower than 2800-3000 rpms, or fuel puddles and intake goes boom.

Dry kits, you need to make sure you have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, to richen the mix a bit, and prevent going lean and frying a cylinder or 8

When he says he can't regulate the A/F ratio, he can't because he needs to have the car on a dyno to see how the fuel curve reactes at all rpm ranges. a standard tune should be good enough, start with the lower HP settings, and go from there....if you hear even the SLIGHTEST amount of ping (detonation) let off the gas, it could save your engines life.

The best A/F is about 11.5:1 with nitrous, to much higher, and you run a higher risk of breaking something....and do be prepared to break something, any time you play with a power adder they can, and will, bite you in the rear when you least expect it
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-16-2004, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
 
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Joel.....

Are you saying that you run a n/a Street tune with advanced timing, like we all run now with a SCT tune? ANd you do not have a flip chip to retard the timing? I was under the wrong impression appraently that advanced timing and nitrous = BOOM!


So would it make it easier for him to calcute the A/F ratio for the chip if I make a dyno run and send him the sheet so he can evaluate it?

Do you know of any GOOD places online I can read up on A/F ratio, fuel pressure and nitrous? Every site I have found has been virtually useless.

What would you do in my situation with the information Dennis gave me.
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-16-2004, 09:36 PM
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dave go with a zex dry kit. you dont want a blown up intake manifold from fuel puddlng with a wet kit. the zex dry kit compensates for the extra fuel needed. just make sure you upgrade your fuel pump, fuel preasure regulator and fuel injectors. if you have any questions about the zex dry kit contact 1mtncat. his name is steve and he's the man. He was able to answer all my nitrous questions when i was thiniin about juicing my bird. he has been using the zex dry kit for a few years now and has had no problems.

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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-16-2004, 10:02 PM Thread Starter
 
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I just PM'd him to check out the thread, we'll see.

BTW: I am paying for a Walbro 255lph and 24# injectors now and I will buy a Steeda AFPR when the time comes, unless anyone has a better reccommendation than the Steeda one for 100.00
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-16-2004, 10:11 PM
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Kirban is a really good fuel preasure regulator. u can get a walbaro 255 lph pump and kirban fpr for about $190 on mn12performance.com. u also might want to invest in some solid motor mounts and a solid transmission mount with all the new power.

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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-16-2004, 10:15 PM Thread Starter
 
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I know nothing about solid mounts, shed some light?

Hows the installation, Wouldn't you have to pull the engine and drop the tranny to change mounts.....Like I said I have no idea?
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-16-2004, 10:43 PM
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you dont have to pull the engine and drop the tranny to install new mounts.

stock mounts are filled with fluid and they tend to suck. they aren't made to support any kind of power and you'll break the motor mounts real fast using nitrous. the solid ones are solid rubber so there is no give to them and they are pretty difficult to break. easiest way to check your motor mounts is to put the car in drive and hold the brake with your left foot and tap the gas real quick with your right foot and see how far the engine comes up. with solid motor mounts the engine wont move up at all.

frank

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2003 Mustang Cobra 10th Anniversary - 11.2 @ 130
1997 Thunderbird LX 4.6 - 13.7 @ 103
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-16-2004, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
 
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Well....I have plenty of money, I just don't know how hard the install is. That is the only thing stopping me from doing alot of stuff. Is this something I would have to have a shop do, and if so how much would it cost Apprx?
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-16-2004, 11:00 PM
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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-16-2004, 11:07 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Steve
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-17-2004, 12:19 AM
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Okay so who the heck blew up a '94-'95 manifold? Or aren't you guys noticing that. I haven't heard of that happening.

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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-17-2004, 12:28 AM Thread Starter
 
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No one said they blew up a 94-95 manifold....I was talking about JOel and I think shadows intakes. And I am going to the PI intake before I install the nitrous.
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-17-2004, 12:38 AM
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that explains it
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-17-2004, 03:33 AM
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Wet can be safe as long as you are smart about it.

I would say get the Zex or whatever dry kit you want. I am sure Steve already told you what all you need etc... but here's why I think you should go w/ dry.

Wet will make more power, no question. However, dyno numbers don't mean ****. It's all about track times. With a wet kit, you can't spray off the line, which will make your 60fts. the same as running n/a, which is not good. It may "make up" for that somewhat once it kicks in since it does make more power than a dry kit. With a dry kit you can spray off the line, which should get you some good 60fts, depending on mods and how quick your car is etc.... but they will be better than n/a 60ft times.
A wet kit is easier to tune, like Dennis was saying (sort of), but it's not like a dry kit is really hard to tune. Either one getting on a dyno to get an a/f reading is ideal just to make sure you don't have any lean areas. Not absolutely neccessary though.
Dry kits are really only good up to a 125shot, maybe a 150. If you want more (which I doubt unless you build up your motor), a wet kit can go way beyond that.

I ran a wet 60 shot (Nitrous Express) on my n/a tune from Dennis (advanced timing etc...), and didn't have any problems (spraying from 3000-5400rpms). This was on the stock fuel pump as well. I had a new one to put in, but was waiting to get my chip reburned...
So I got my chip reburned, both n/a tune and a new nitrous tune from Brian H, installed the fuel pump, 12C plugs (gapped to .35), and other tune-up stuff.
Put the 125 shot jets in, set the window switch to 3000-5800, and no issues as far as puddling or detonation. Ran at the track w/ it at 3000-6000 (since 5800 was too soon to shut off at with my shift points), and had no problems.
Decided to spray a little sooner. Tried 2900 w/ a 60 shot (on the nitrous tune), went fine, then tried 2800rpms, went fine again. Went to the track and spray 2800-6000rpms with the 125shot. No problems at all. Did the same thing the next weekend, still no issues.
Tonight I sprayed at 2700rpms, and no issues once again. I am not gonna be going any lower than that, but it seemed good. There was like a 40mph wind, no track prep, wet track etc... so didn't get good results, but no issues as fasr as puddling.

Best time in sig, spraying at 2800-6000rpms, on a decent track day (no track prep, but no wind either). Just installed a TB and plenum, and will be running this Sunday with those and spraying at 2700-6000.
I have only made like 5 total "good" passes at the track on the bottle (never ran the 60shot at the track). Made others when bottle pressure was low, window swithc not set right etc... and my times should only get better

1MTNCAT was getting great times with his Zex kit, and has made countless passes.

It's really up to you. Maybe go w/ whichever one you can get a better deal on.

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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-17-2004, 03:39 AM Thread Starter
 
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What mods do you have Aaron to hit 13.1 @103?

Thanks for all of your help....

Dave
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-17-2004, 04:37 AM
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Well after typing a lot of crap, damn comp messed up (as it has been often). Let's try this again.

4.10's, rebuilt tranny (with heavy duty parts and tranny cooler), TransGo shiftkit, Mark VIII t/c, 2.5" mandrel bent catless/mufflerless exhaust with x-pipe, Diablo chip with n/a and nitorus tunes by Brian H, U/D pulleys (March), 02' Stang MAF (stock airbox Stang tube), Nitrous Express kit w/ all the goodies
and supporting "mods" : K&N panel filter, FRPP wires, 180* t-stat, 12C plugs, 255lph fuel pump

I run on 15" BFG Comp T/A's (235/60/15), normally get 2.0 60fts, ran a best n/a time of [email protected]h week before last with a 2.1 60ft.
Only thing weight wise is I never have the spare tire and jack in
yet to run with 75mm Accufab throttle body and Trick Flow plenum, and will try spraying at 2700-6000 again on Sunday when the track will be prepped very well.

1MTNCAT had similar mods, and used to run 14.4ish n/a times, and still 12 second nitrous times. Only "major" difference I can think of was his catback back exhaust vs. my full exhaust but he had JBA's, and he had a FRPP throttle body. Not sure what t/c he was using last year, but that's when he was running mid-low 14's. Oh, plus he could spray off the line

I have been getting help from him since last summer, and has never steered me wrong, and I have always gotten good results with his advice.

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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-17-2004, 04:43 AM Thread Starter
 
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I usually think people who ask....What times do you think my car will run, are dumb, now I will be one of them.....I guess

What do you think

95 LX

3.73 trac lok
PI intake
Steeda Underdrives
24# injectors
255 lph Walbro
80mm LMAF
Vortex True Dual Exhaust
Reinhart Chip
J- Mod

Then approx with a 100 shot of Zex...

Nitrous:
N/A:
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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-17-2004, 05:09 AM
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Heh, been thinking about it, and I don't realy know what to guess.


A torque converter would help. Maybe wait for Dennis to have some Maruder ones for sale again. You can't beat $100.

Just a guess, high 14's maybe n/a, mid 13's with a 100 shot, maybe low 13's. Of course a t/c would help.
You will also need some good tires, either drag radials, or slicks. Oh, and practice.

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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-17-2004, 09:19 AM
 
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With your mods and times, you should go ahead and pony up for the PI triple disk with a real stall speed and be done with it. You'll drop a lot more time than with the small stall change to the Marauder converter. I bet just the converter change will put you in the 12's on the spray.
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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-17-2004, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thats what I was planning on doing, the PI Stallion 3K Stall.

When you figure a 390.00 install price, It just makes sense to buy the beter tc now rather than a maurader and pay twice to install.

But the T/C, won't happen till the winter. Too much money.
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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-18-2004, 11:20 AM
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The zex kit work great. If you don't get greedy more is not always better. It is intended to work with the stock regulator. Its easy to install. I would reccomend a 190 to 255 intank pump. Run some cooler plugs and have Dennis or SCT make you switch chip that pulls some timing. The secret to Nitrous success is no greed. A msd rpm window switch is also a good safety measure. It won't let i activate till a set rpm then shut its off at another rpm.

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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-18-2004, 12:55 PM
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Go with this kit and never look back. Its what I used to run, and its simple and gets the power to the ground.

NOS NOSZLE kit

I ran the 125hp pills in mine. Spray came on at 2800 RPM, and shut off at 6K.

Took the car from 14.80's, to 13.71 @ 102.

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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-18-2004, 08:56 PM
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That's interesting. Aaron T's car went 13.1 @ 102-3 at 2800 RPM Switch with the Zex kit Albeit wet.

My stocker with the Dry kit and bolt-ons comes on at WOT and went 12.8-9 at nearly 105.

Guess something can be said for all of them!!!!!!

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Nitrous 11.75 @ 114 MPH

2008 Ford Powerstroke 6.4 TT F250 4X4 Supercrew: 12.82 @ 105 MPH

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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-19-2004, 12:03 AM
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Well, that was two years ago, with stock exhaust manifolds, cats, and stock automatic and converter......

I'm sure it would have gone high 12's easy with the ART exhaust, JBA headers, and T-45 I have now.....BUT the blower is more fun.

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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-19-2004, 06:02 AM
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That is my point, Aaron t's car is running 13.1 with some type of exhaust, not sure bout the converter, etc.

2 years ago mine went 13.0's with stock converter, 2-1-2 factory type cat-back exhaust and stock manifolds. Only difference was Dry vs. Wet and when the system was activated. Thats the only point I'm trying to get across.

Bottom line is sometimes you can do more with less depending on when its coming on. Then traction is the concern.

With him adding the elbow and some things, I'm interested in seeing what his does with those mods.

Blake hit it right on the point also. Get greedy with any of the systems and it can definately go bang. Its like drinking or anything else, moderation is the key word here no matter the system or the power adder!!!!

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"There's a bad, built NA 4.6L COMING Spring-Summer 2018"

Elite member of the Halfshaft snapping, Auburn eating, Tranny crunching, Piston Melting, Tire lifting, 500+ lb ft Torque Club.

Cougar ET-Stock 4.6 shortblock/Stock PI headswap Bullitt NA 12.94 @ 105+
Nitrous 11.75 @ 114 MPH

2008 Ford Powerstroke 6.4 TT F250 4X4 Supercrew: 12.82 @ 105 MPH

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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-19-2004, 11:51 AM
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Yes, I realize the grunt off the line and the first 60 feet make all the difference. I'm sure that if I had the ability to hit it off the line it would have made a world of difference. But, back then I didnt really have the funds or time to make a costly mistake like that.

Carry on....Chris

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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-19-2004, 08:04 PM
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I have a Mark VIII t/c.

I bought a Nitrous Express kit because of the power they give out. I had known that 1MTNCAT had good results w/ his Zex dry kit, but I figured more power was better, and that not being able to spray off the line was a big deal. Well it is. I normally get 2.0 60ft times n/a, and still get 2.0 60fts. on the spray. The new stuff should help, as well as I am gonna be spraying at 2700rpms (seemed to works a lot better than at 2800).
I still like my kit, and don't really regret going with it. However if I had to do it again I would really think about getting a dry kit.
I may be able to put more power down on a dyno then him (his old setup anyways), but even if that's true, it obviously doesn't mean anything.
LoopyJ is another example of the difference. I believe he is spraying a NOS 120 dry shot and ran a 12.98 with a few less mods than me (a couple more now with the stuff I just added), and 3.73's in his rearend.

A nozzle system seems uneccessary in a smaller shot application.

I will be going to the track tomorrow so we shall see. Hopefully my tires will last

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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-20-2004, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
 
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Good Luck Aaron, and thanks for the adivce!

500th post!
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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-20-2004, 08:52 AM
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Good Luck guys in getting those 12's.

Or as CobraRThunder says "Carry On"

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"There's a bad, built NA 4.6L COMING Spring-Summer 2018"

Elite member of the Halfshaft snapping, Auburn eating, Tranny crunching, Piston Melting, Tire lifting, 500+ lb ft Torque Club.

Cougar ET-Stock 4.6 shortblock/Stock PI headswap Bullitt NA 12.94 @ 105+
Nitrous 11.75 @ 114 MPH

2008 Ford Powerstroke 6.4 TT F250 4X4 Supercrew: 12.82 @ 105 MPH

"IN MEMORY OF MY FRIENDS JOEL BENDER 1979-2006", JOHNNY LANGTON 1975-2011, and MICHAEL VIVERETTE 1953-2013"
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