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post #1 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-08-2005, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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Shooting the Car for the First time

This Saturday I will be heading up to RV Performance to dyno tune my car on the SCT dyno. I will be spraying my car for the first time. I have taken all the steps , upgraded the fuel system and made sure I have all the important parts for my system. I am slightly nervous about what might happen, but I think once I spray it , if it doesnt blow up then I will prolley be much more relaxed, but right now I am very nervous about whats gonna happen. Well wish me luck guys and If I can get someone to post up my video form the dyno I will. So far I have the following stuff

30Lb injectors
255 Fuel pump
.036 gapped plugs
SCT 8 mode Chip
Bottle Warmer
Purge kit
and Zex pressure gauge

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post #2 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-08-2005, 09:18 PM
 
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As long as the tuner pulls some timing and drops your A/F down a bit you should be fine. Mine was first shot on the rollers and it wasn't even me who got to do it...It is pretty cool though. Just cross your fingers and hope you don't have to push the car off the dyno

Joe
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post #3 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-08-2005, 10:17 PM
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don't worry, i might know where to find you another motor

Just kiddin bud, if that fuel filter has more than 10k on it, then put another one on there. Other than that I wouldn't worry too much.
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post #4 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-09-2005, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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Fuel filter is pretty much brand new. Just got to figure out why my car keeps pulling the od flash when I put the SCT in and not when I have my old chip in, Allen said it might be the epc solinoid but I would think it would happen with both chips.

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post #5 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-09-2005, 10:32 PM
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dont even worry about it. nitrous is given a bad wrap sometimes because of idiots who dont take the neccessary precautions and end up blowing there cars up . but it can be just as safe as anything else. looks like u got all the needed fuel upgrades so you should be fine. your gonna love all the torque you pick up from the juice.

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post #6 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-11-2005, 10:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Fdawg03SVT
because of idiots who dont take the neccessary precautions and end up blowing there cars up .

Frank
Hey......



Everything will be fine man, just don't roll out the 125 shot just yet....
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post #7 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-11-2005, 11:53 PM
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If it were me I'd spray a a 50 shot before going to the dyno. Would be nice to have a complete bottle, but would be good to know that it's working fine etc....

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post #8 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-13-2005, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
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how many shots do you guys get out of a bottle?

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post #9 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-14-2005, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazania
how many shots do you guys get out of a bottle?
depends how big of a shot you are running. on a 75 shot a 10 lb. bottle lasted me a while if i didnt purge any of it away.

Frank

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post #10 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-14-2005, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
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Im spraying a 125 shot, the guy told me about 5 runs which doesnt seem like alot

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post #11 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-14-2005, 09:02 AM
 
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I used to get 10 runs down the track on the 75 shot, with a minor purge before each run.

Well, what did you do on the dyno?
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post #12 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-14-2005, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
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I had to cancle and go next week, because I have to replace my EPC solinoid. I cant wait to see

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post #13 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-18-2005, 08:46 AM
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you make me want nitrous :-)

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post #14 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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Well, tomarro morning Im gonna head out and should get to the dyno around 8:00am. Im hoping everything goes ok, Ill let you guys know how it all turns out. where gonna start with a 75 shot and go up from there.

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post #15 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-20-2005, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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Just got back from the Dyno, Good news and Bad. The good I didnt blow my engine, I picked up 20HP extra N\A. I also got the car tuned with the nitrous. The bad news is My 02 sensors are shot and I need new ones. Apparently they have been bad , but I thought it was something else and when I got down there we started with a NA run and made 220RWHP after a little tweaking we got around 230. Next we went and put a 75 hp jet in and shot it three times, we tweaked it a little but seemed to not break more than 260 at the wheels. The dyno showed it was spinning right pff the dyno up to where the converter locks up so it was hard to get a good reading. Then we took the spark plugs out b\c they where gapped to .054 and we regapped them to .32, .

Now This is where it started getting wierd, I only made 1 more HP with the 100 shot, and we kept looking at the air fuel ratio and as we shot it more and more the car became more and more rich and was making less and less HP to the point where it made less HP than it was N\A. So we made another pass NA to see if it was the nitrous or the 02 sensors and it again dropped off down to 10.5 11.5 ratio where as we where at 12.5 all the way threw. My check engine light is on and it sais bank 1 bank 2 rich condition so I am assuming the 02's are shot they are original with about 125,000 on them. So we decided to stop for now and Rick told me to change the 02's and I can run the nitrous with no problems we where luckly able to tune the car enough with the 75 shot and work from there to run 100 on it. I decided to stick with 100 to be safe , I have a video if you would like to see maybe I can post it up. if anyone who is very knowlegable and would like to give me there input on any other reason this car is running to rich please feel free, but I can be almost certain its the 02's b\c the light flashing, Rick told me that he things they are not switching fast enough b\c they are old and the 30lb injectors are too much for them for the condition they are in. If anyone would also like to sell me or mail me there 100HP jets I need the set I send me a pm thanks

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post #16 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-20-2005, 06:40 PM
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Must be happy that the engine didn't blow up. But hey, unlike the ricers around here it looks like you did it the right way.

I keep hearing stories about the 02 sensors going out but have yet to change mine. (155,000miles)
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post #17 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-20-2005, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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are you running nitrous?

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post #18 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-20-2005, 07:26 PM
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As of right now, no. Before my brother joined the Army and sold me the car, he ran it for about 2 months. That I know of he sprayed it with 75shot ateast 5 times. The only reason he took it out is because Nos is illegal around here.
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post #19 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-20-2005, 08:03 PM
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I am going to call BS on their diagnosis of the O2's being the problem.
First of all at WOT the O2's are not even in play. The computer only pays attention to the O2's in closed loop and the car should be in open loop at WOT. Now, a stock tune will use adaptive for WOT, but the SCT stuff doesn't use it the same way. ANY SCT tuner should know this.
Second, why aren't they locking the converter up in 3rd gear BEFORE they start the pull?
I would like to know a few things as well.
What kind of nitrous system are you running?
What kind of dyno are they running because your numbers seem a little low?
How new are the plugs and what type are they?
I would be concerned if I were you.

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post #20 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-21-2005, 12:33 AM
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What was the bottle pressure at? A Zex 75 shot should have atleast gotte you around 60hp and around 90ftlb of torque.
Also curious about how it would be spinning off the dyno. I wouldn't think that that is near enough power to spin.

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post #21 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-21-2005, 03:48 AM Thread Starter
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yeah I am very concerned and not happy right now, I am running a Zex dry kit , I do understand that the 02 sensors are in a open loop at WOT, I dont understand why the car was doing ok and then began getting to rich, the dyno was a Mustang dyno and the most I made was 203 and your supposed to add 17 to that number. Im very frusterated that UI spent 300.00 dollars on a dyno and left with out knowing exactly if my car was tuned right. Rick has tuned alot of 4.6 motors so I trust his judgement, but I am not comfortable with spraying the car jusqt yet. The spark plugs are NGK's V power non platnum plug gapped at .030. Im not sure about the wheel spin but they bassically said that they where having traction problems b\c the converter wasnt locking up untill 3800 or so where it is supposed to be. I am not sure what to do and would def like some help, why does this car keep getting richer and richer as I ran it. Ill say we had it tuned for NA and made 203RWHP but the last run was 179 and it showed a real low air fuel ratio o like 9.5. just not sure ,it says the o2's are getting a rich condition, but I dont know if they are bad or just the injectors are not tuned right for them in the fuel table. I just want to get this right and do it safe. not happy at the moment


My bottle pressure was around 900 also the guy told me t ocheck my plugs after every run, do you guys do this? b\c it sounds really annoying.

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post #22 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-21-2005, 07:12 AM
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I'd try to help man, but I'm not very knowledgable with these engines.
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post #23 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-21-2005, 07:43 AM
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Nah I made a lot of passes last year and never check my plugs (Motorcraft 12c's).
I take it they or someone else put a nitrous tune in?
If that is the case, might want to see if something is wrong with the programing.
If not, I would think something is "wrong" with some part of the nitrous kit and for some reason a lot of fuel is being added.
You can get a CEL by running too rich, and have nothing to do with the o2's being bad.

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post #24 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-21-2005, 08:34 AM
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I don't like NGK plugs and that is about all I am going to say about that.
But, ANY tuner should know how to electronically lock the converter in 3rd gear to tune an automatic car on a dyno. SCT tells their tuners how to do this in the most basic info that they provide on tuning. They tell you how to do it on their website. They tell you in their manual. They tell you in their training...
Like I said, this would concern me.
I have installed a couple of ZEX dry kits. I have one on my 96 even. It is a great kit and easy to install, but it is really set up for a car with a stock fuel system. I haven't ever put one on a car with larger injectors and pump, but I am wondering if that isn't it. If my understanding of how it works is correct, the dry kit uses extra fuel rail pressure to provide the extra fuel. This would be a lot like an FMU. If you have larger injectors the increased fuel rail pressure will cause you to get much more fuel than you need when the ZEX unit calls for it. This will be nultiplied by that big pump you have. The jet sizes wouldn't calculated for that.
Again, this is all speculation based on how I think it works, so you will need to call ZEX and talk to them about how their kit works in that

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post #25 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-21-2005, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
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yeah, one step at a time. My theory is similar I mean if the o2 sensors are in a open loop then at WOT they cant richen the mixture. Im just wondering if the cars computer is richening the mix b\c the o2's are not working at all. I myself think its somthing to do with the programming of the chip and the injectors. They run alot of nitrous cars 4.6L mustangs and such I dont understand why they are having such a problem with my car. At the same time I feel its the chip or maybe the injectors, I find it wierd that the car was ok and continued to get richer all of a sudden and just got worse as we kepts making passes without changing the tune on the chip. Im not sure if the NMU might be defective, but without shooting the nitrous the car still gets richer so my guess is that the NMU is fine. Now I thought if the 30lb injectors where the problem the car would stay at one rich condition , but the condition keeps getting worse and worse and the CEL says the bank 1 and 2 oxygen sensors are giving a rich condition. I am aware that could be the injectors or improper tuneing of the chip , but it makes me wonder b\c the o2's are original with almost 130,000 on them. Either way I think I will get it straight im just gonna take the car back once I think I have it figured out and go from there. Just really upset b\c I saved up for awhile since I dont have the best paying job right now, and I didnt want to drop $300.00 on something and then get nothing really. I will first go about and change the o2 sensors I mean from what they told me is yes the o2 sensors are in a open loop at WOT but he was saying them being shot they may not be shutting off as fast as they should or maybe at all so it could be doing this. The tuner was confident that he has seen this other times as well and its always the o2 sensors , I dont know we shall see. Id like to put the 19 lb injectors in I think that should have no baring effect on the kit, it doesnt require 30lb injectors , but he has implied that I should have them which has made me think a little b\c the kit usually does all that and takes care of its needs.
I dont know frusterating issue all around.

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post #26 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-21-2005, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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Another question, what does everyone gap there plugs at?

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post #27 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-21-2005, 10:09 AM
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Well, since you spent the money on the tune and he told you to replace the O2's then I would do that. You spent the money, they need to provide the goods. Just make sure you use Ford O2' and don't get the Autozone crap. There was a guy on here selling the good ones a while back and I bought a few sets. I doubt he still has any and I am out unfortunately.
It is absolutely true that a car needs to be in proper running condition before you tune it, so you need to get it there and take it back to them. Then they should be able to provide you with what you paid for.
You also need to ask them if they are locking the converter up in 3rd using the software while they have it on the dyno. SCT provides their dealers and the people with the Pro Racer Package the info on how to do that. They should also have shut off adaptive while they are tuning it. That would eliminate the O2 info from having a cumulative effect on the runs. Things just don't add up here is all I am saying.
You have enough info to move on and I don't want to get into the middle of anything more than I already have. It isn't fair because I don't have the complete info. I don't know the condition of the car and I don't know what the tuner was and wasn't doing during the tune. I am just expressing concern over a few things that don't make sense for an SCT dealer and telling you what I know about the ZEX kit.
My advice is that it is never a bad idea to replace O2's that are as old as yours. You needed to do that anyway. Also, since you spent good money for a service then you need to do what the dealer is telling you and give him the opportunity to prove himself without all the second guessing going on.
Let us know what happens.

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post #28 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-21-2005, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks alot , I appreciate all the help

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post #29 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-21-2005, 04:07 PM
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Going off about what Darrin said about Zex being designed for the stock fuel system - did you try going to a smaller fuel jet? Most nitrous kits jetting are setup to be a little rich anyways, and if you have such large injectors.......

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post #30 of 102 (permalink) Old 08-21-2005, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron_T
Going off about what Darrin said about Zex being designed for the stock fuel system - did you try going to a smaller fuel jet? Most nitrous kits jetting are setup to be a little rich anyways, and if you have such large injectors.......
We started out with the 75 shot jets not sure exactly which ones they are and the car ran decent but a little rich and then it just got worse from there. that is why they think its the o2's b\c we tested it again N\A and the air fuel was dropping alot. I have decided to change the o2's and ask him to let me come back to see if anything chaged and if it didnt then we will go from there. These guys are very conservitive and double check everything. I doubt its the programming even though it very well could be. I think the o2's should be the first step , Im just wondering they told me once I changed thoes it would be safe to run it, but I am wondering about that , the told me the NMU will never allow it to run lean. Does anyone know if Bosch o2's are any good? I know a couple of people told me not to get them and get the ford ones but recently I was told that bosch made them for ford lol so I dont know how they would be any different.

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