2002 explorer on the bottle? how much? - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-10-2007, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
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2002 explorer on the bottle? how much?

It seems that everyone agrees 50-75 shot is pretty safe for the stock 4.6L t-birds.. But my bird will have an 02 explorer in it, ( with a t-56 6 speed ) I do plan on going dry nos.

do you think the engine will last as well as the tbird 4.6L because its basically the same engine or should i be able to put more of a shot or less?

upgrades reccomended for a dry shot ( not including anything for the kit are )

1) Fuel pump: how much preasure should i go to?

2)injectors: what should the flow rate be able to handel..
3)thats all?? anything else i should worry about?


PS: i really need this engine(with 9k miles) to not blow so i want to be as safe as possible but i must have more power.. I was origionally going to just doa 50shot but now i am leaning to putting more. Do you suggest i stay safe with the 50 or should 75 be just fine as long as i dont nos it before 3,000 rpm's..

how much gain in hp/torq should 50 shot / 75shot be?
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-10-2007, 02:43 PM
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Just so you know; A 75 shot will work on a stock engine with no mods.

Do I think the engine will last? Well.. you have people here that been running nitrous on stock engines for a long time. Then you also have people who have hosed their engines might quick.

If you want your engine to last, do not run nitrous.

It's not a matter of IF but WHEN.

You can run dry nitrous right off the line. Unlike a wet kit where you need an RPM window.

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-10-2007, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
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i can really spray a 75shot of dry nos at just above idle at wide open throtle. thats if i remeber, thats less than 1000 rpm's.

If i do a 75 shot of dry nitrousoxide then i will not benefit or be any safer if i get a higher preasure fuel pump and a fuel injector that can handel a higher flow rate? I would rather spend a cuple bucks than kick myself later if something went wrong because i didn't dish out a cuple bills for something.

What about spark plugs, i read that when doing nos they tend to go bad and must be replaced a cuple times a year. Is that just on higher shots of nos? Will i benefit by going to a better sparkplug. I read that Platinum spark plugs can cause pre-ignition so i must stick with cooler plugs.. What plugs are reccomended if any?

I do plan to dynotune my engine for preminum gas at the pump 93 octane?? would that cause any preignition or any issues for nos? Is it true i can either tune the car to run best on premium gas or tune for best performance on nos but i cant get them to both be perfectly tuned for max power while not sprayed and max power while sprayed? what do others do who finetune?
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-10-2007, 06:19 PM
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What kit will you be running?

And have you got it yet?

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-10-2007, 09:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al_Florida

If you want your engine to last, do not run nitrous.

It's not a matter of IF but WHEN.

You can run dry nitrous right off the line. Unlike a wet kit where you need an RPM window.

Im sorry, but in all my research this is false... Nitrous is no more detrimental to an engine than any other modification if you tune for it. There is no when if you know what you are doing and dont get greedy. the ONLY thing nitrous does is increase the cylinder pressure and make more power. The beauty of nitrous is that it is only used occasionally. Engines in general are engineered for durability. They can handle the occasional spike in cylinder pressure and added horsepower production without catastrophe. All nitrous kits are engineered to provide accurate air/ fuel ratio when using nitrous and that is critical. as long as the a/f ratio stays within reason, the heat will stay under control in the cylinders. Nitrous does make the intake charge MUCH more volitile, and that is why retarding the timing and ENSURING that you have a proper fuel system is critical. You have a much smaller window for error when running such a potent intake charge. The danger of using nitrous is NOT from the physical use of the product, it is from the mis-information and improper use of the product. I have torn down several bone stock shortblocks that look absolutely beautiful inside after several years of repetitive nitrous use. Simply using nitrous does not hurt your engine, not tuning correctly does.

I certainly dont recommend using any nitrous below 3000 RPM. On a different thread this got ugly, but I have reasons why it isnt real healthy for your engine even with a small shot and a dry kit. You also dont have to have a window switch with a wet kit, but it is a good idea with any nitrous kit.

Last edited by Supernatural; 02-10-2007 at 09:42 PM.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-10-2007, 09:31 PM
 
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I know Im going to get static for this, but you can EASILY get away with a 150 shot on a stock 4.6 if you know how to tune for it.

Do not skimp on the fuel system.

Get a bigger pump.

Only use nitrous on the highest octane pump gas you can get.

get COPPER plugs and close the gap to .035, go one heat range colder from 100-150 HP and then switch to 2 heat ranges colder above 150 HP.

Retard your timing 2 degrees for every 50HP of nitrous until you check your timing marks then tune your timing from there

ONLY use nitrous from 3000 RPM to 6000 RPM, DEFIANTLY DO NOT USE NITROUS ON THE REV LIMITER. buy and use a window switch if you can.

All of my tips are directly from nitrous manufacturers, and you will find all of these recommendations in the instructions for any kit you buy. The biggest thing is that you follow the directions when you install the kit and all will be well. I dont recommend using much over a 125 wet shot due to the 4.6 intake design. I can delve more into that if needed, but dry kits usually have less problems on the bigger shots with this intake design.

On the plug question, you should check your plugs OFTEN on nitrous anyway. If you get too lean on the tuning they will get trashed fast, but the standard copper plugs I recommend are cheap and they are easy to install in these cars.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-11-2007, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernatural
Im sorry, but in all my research this is false... Nitrous is no more detrimental to an engine than any other modification if you tune for it. There is no when if you know what you are doing and dont get greedy. the ONLY thing nitrous does is increase the cylinder pressure and make more power. The beauty of nitrous is that it is only used occasionally. Engines in general are engineered for durability. They can handle the occasional spike in cylinder pressure and added horsepower production without catastrophe. All nitrous kits are engineered to provide accurate air/ fuel ratio when using nitrous and that is critical. as long as the a/f ratio stays within reason, the heat will stay under control in the cylinders. Nitrous does make the intake charge MUCH more volitile, and that is why retarding the timing and ENSURING that you have a proper fuel system is critical. You have a much smaller window for error when running such a potent intake charge. The danger of using nitrous is NOT from the physical use of the product, it is from the mis-information and improper use of the product. I have torn down several bone stock shortblocks that look absolutely beautiful inside after several years of repetitive nitrous use. Simply using nitrous does not hurt your engine, not tuning correctly does.
No more detrimental but detrimental none-the-less.
You say someone has nothing to worry about running nitrous and then later you rant about all the things that could go wrong. Increased cylinder pressure, intake charge, critical timing - Some people have been running nitrous on stock engines and have had no problems. Others have busted their engines. Your mileage may vary but don't for one second assume that it is 100% safe to run nitrous on anything. Tuned or not.

IMO: If you're running a dry shot then using a window switch is not needed. You also do not need a bigger fuel pump with a 75 shot. It's a waste of money unless you plan on going bigger later or your current pump is still original and probably should be replaced anyway. You're not injecting fuel in a dry kit so with a 75 shot your stock fuel system is more than adequate assuming it's in good shape.

I do agree on the copper plugs and checking them after each run. It's the only way to fine tune your system.

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-11-2007, 01:03 PM
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First off there are seperate systems for return and non-return type fuel system. Make sure you have the correct one for your vehicle.

A 75 shot on the Explorer would give it a good kick in the arse. The only problem is you WILL want more later.

Find a system that will work with your TPS system. I agree, a dry kit for your set-up would likely be best. It's far better to have a larger pump in for better control of the fuel pressure than it is to find out you may go lean. However, GENERALLY, a stock pump will be sufficient up to that level.

It is best to have a tune to go with it as the others have stated on here. MOST Systems are set-up for 93 Octane pump gas. You need to insure thats what your tune is set up for if thats what the system calls for.

There are many factors as far as the performance of your vehicle with the N20. Mods, Tune, weight, power levels as well as all aspects of the system you are running such as recommended bottle pressure, how full or emty the bottle, delivery of the Nitrous, and so many other varibles. A 75 shot if done correclty should put you at least 5/10- 9/10's and possibly better at a track with traction and everything working properly. AGAIN, lots of things to take into consideration but thats a possibility.

Just remember as was previously mentioned, these engines will take this rather easily on on a part time basis. You go beating on them all the time with it and be rest assured, they will be beat back. Occasional use on a stock motor that is set up accordingly should last you qutie a while. If not used properly, it could be destroyed immediately.

So have fun but be advised.

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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-12-2007, 12:39 PM
 
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I say jug the motor and be happy.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-12-2007, 05:59 PM
 
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nitrous with a dedicated fuel/intake/spark setup half of what that engine produces stock (240hp) can be done in nitrous, so 120HP shot of N20 will be fairly safe on that engine. so i would go with 100 shot, which is what i am planning on doing until i can up the HP/TQ other ways (H/C/I)
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-14-2007, 04:36 PM
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go for the zex dry kit,its so easy a cave man can install it,it does not have to have a window switch,i/e only activated above 3k rpmis a false staement.
i have been running a 125 dry shot on my engine that has 186k miles on it and have had no problems,and over the past couple months i have ran close to 4 full bottles threw the engine getting the jets set up right
mike

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-14-2007, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joker77_2005
go for the zex dry kit,its so easy a cave man can install it

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You're right, good point. Sorry we couldn't get that to you sooner!"

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-14-2007, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al_Florida

"Yeah, right -- walking upright, discovering fire, inventing the wheel, laying the foundation for all mankind.
You're right, good point. Sorry we couldn't get that to you sooner!"
I WAS LOOKING FOR THAT

1990 ford f150 5.0
1989 cougar xr-7 5spd 5.0 --249hp/[email protected]
stock bottom end 200k plus miles,afr165 heads,explorer intake,75mm tb,80mm maf,e-cam,30lbs injecters,mac 1 5/8 long tubes,homebuilt foreward manual transbrake aod,3.73 gears,welded open diff,100 zex wet shot
1989 mustang gt [email protected]
1984 tbird 5.0 auto
1999 chevy tracker...wtf!!!!!
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-17-2007, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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I do plan on going zex dry kit to add 100 hp. SO for every 50hp increas in nos i need to adjust the timing 2 degrees later. That would be a spark 4 degrees later than normal. I plan on dyno tuning the engine for 93 octane ( best octane atthe pump). I do believe that they will adjust the timing to fire before the stock timing does because of the more stable fuel with more octane. ( octane stops the fuel from igniting so i am assuming that for best performance the timing will be adjusted to fire earlier). If that is the case then lets say they adjust it to fire six degrees sooner for best performance, i dont really know how they adjust i am just giving an example, then i tell them i want to put 100hp worth of nos on it so make sure you adjust it 4 degrees later. So the result is the timing is actually 2 degrees sooner than stock even though i am only going to run premium gas in it.. I dont trust some random person in a shop to know how to adjust for NOS and i would hate for it to blow because a shop didnt understand to make the timing 2 degrees later for every 50 hp gain...

I dont know anyone with a dyno so i need to find some shop around here to dyno tune my engine. Does anyone have any idea how much it would cost for me to drive into a shop and say dyno tune for 93 octane and oh yeah im putting 100 hp of nos on it so adjust for that?

Another question. If i am delaying my timing 4 degrees then how much will it affect my emissions and hp/torq. emissions should get worst and the engine shouldnt work as efficiently so that means less hp and torq off the bottle but the positive side is no BOOM with nos is added.. How much less hp torq should i expect?

Do most people solve this problem with a switch chip. regular timing when they dont use nos and delayed timing when they know they might use nos?
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-18-2007, 08:55 AM
 
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i use an xcal2 but most use either that or a flip chip, and 150 shot on a pi engine is sitting right about the edge, but properly tuned it will last years...however your torque converter might take a **** on you pretty soon if it's the stock one...locking up at nearly double what it's used to seeing is bad for it's health
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-18-2007, 09:52 PM
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i think u are safe to run up to 125 shot without messing with the timing,my 96 is tuned for 93 octane gas ,and i have yet to have to pull the octane plug out to get the engine to run better
mike

1990 ford f150 5.0
1989 cougar xr-7 5spd 5.0 --249hp/[email protected]
stock bottom end 200k plus miles,afr165 heads,explorer intake,75mm tb,80mm maf,e-cam,30lbs injecters,mac 1 5/8 long tubes,homebuilt foreward manual transbrake aod,3.73 gears,welded open diff,100 zex wet shot
1989 mustang gt [email protected]
1984 tbird 5.0 auto
1999 chevy tracker...wtf!!!!!
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