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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-11-2007, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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Supercharging a 95 Bird

I have been thinking about, instead of buying an SC, to supercharge my sons 4.6L
instead, so i want to know how much does it cost? What supercharger to add? And what all needs to be done to the drive train?
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-11-2007, 09:21 PM
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Do a search on this forum, there is a lot of info on this subject. Your best bet would been an Allen supercharger. www.allen-superchargers.com

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-12-2007, 08:30 AM
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I would go with Allen or SVO. I used an SVO on mine and it was slightly cheaper than the Allen

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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-12-2007, 09:10 AM
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One of the "issues" with making power in a the 94/95 T'Birds is the heads. They have some of the most restricitve 4.6L heads made. Additionally, the heads had problems with the valve stem guide seals going bad and allowing oil into the combustion chamber... NOT good for any type of forced injection.

Without knowing the mileage, ring sealing could also be an issue with oil consumption (again, oil in the combustion chamber + boost = ping) and blowby.

While a supercharger would give you notible power gains, I would be concerned about the durability on a high mileage engine. I would recommend the first thing is do a leak down test, i.e. find the condition of the existing engine. If it's over 10% leakage, I would think twice about supercharging the engine. If all the cylinders test good, then I would consider some better heads. NPI's are cheap and won't boost your compression too high if you're dead set on boost.

But I think dollar for dollar AND durability, an Explorer swap would be the best bang for the buck... which could always be boosted in the future.

But just my opinions.

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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-13-2007, 04:25 PM
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If you go with the AED, you'll need to upgrade to some of the 96+ parts, fuel lines, throttle cable, etc ..
If that transmission is still the original 95, I would also be concerned about roasting that not too long afterwards.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-13-2007, 05:26 PM
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-13-2007, 05:30 PM
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I think the AED is the only true kit for our cars.So with that you spend alittle more and get everything you need the first time.Plus the AED is intercooled and I believe has a warranty.But you do need to take into consideration the mileage of the motor,Does it burn oil,ect ect ect...

If I was to SC a high mileage npi motor I would rebuild it first.Slam some 96-97 npi heads on it and a AED blower with a tune and call it a day.

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Its slow, Really.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-13-2007, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
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I think the AED is the only true kit for our cars.So with that you spend alittle more and get everything you need the first time.Plus the AED is intercooled and I believe has a warranty.But you do need to take into consideration the mileage of the motor,Does it burn oil,ect ect ect...

If I was to SC a high mileage npi motor I would rebuild it first.Slam some 96-97 npi heads on it and a AED blower with a tune and call it a day.
I do agree with the comments regarding age and health of the motor and can recomend the explorer swap as an option to get a newer better performing motor in the bay. Between Allen and SVO I still lean toward the SVO for simplicity of install and the M112 used in the SVO vs the M90 of the Allen I feel is a better match for the 4.6 in terms of airflow. I am not knocking the Allen in any way but it is definitely a more involved install than the SVO. My entire SVO swap including dropping the tank to install the new fuel pump took 8 hours vs the 40 Allen advertises.

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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-13-2007, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timb View Post
I do agree with the comments regarding age and health of the motor and can recomend the explorer swap as an option to get a newer better performing motor in the bay. Between Allen and SVO I still lean toward the SVO for simplicity of install and the M112 used in the SVO vs the M90 of the Allen I feel is a better match for the 4.6 in terms of airflow. I am not knocking the Allen in any way but it is definitely a more involved install than the SVO. My entire SVO swap including dropping the tank to install the new fuel pump took 8 hours vs the 40 Allen advertises.
If I was to buy a supercharger for my N/A bird I too would probley choose the SVO for the simple fact of how much it cost vs the AED kit.Plus you can throw Water injection on it with great results.The SVO does force alot of air,Alot more than the AED.

The explorer swap would be a smart swap to do with an SVO blower but I've read you can make more power with an NPI motor with Ported heads.The NPI would cost some money though because it would need to be built.I am sure any NPI motor found today would be in excess of 100k miles.

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

Its slow, Really.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-13-2007, 09:31 PM
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of course you can make more power slappin an SVO on a PORTED NPI motor.. you can make more power on a PORTED PI motor too

for $800 you can get a drop in longblock and say screw it... rob did if you wanna spend $1100 porting the heads, feel free either way..


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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-13-2007, 09:42 PM
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of course you can make more power slappin an SVO on a PORTED NPI motor.. you can make more power on a PORTED PI motor too

for $800 you can get a drop in longblock and say screw it... rob did if you wanna spend $1100 porting the heads, feel free either way..
No dice.I already have my PI car.Only other major thing it gets is a Blower.Which will most likely be an SVO if I can find one.

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

Its slow, Really.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-13-2007, 10:09 PM
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not you.. in ref to your general statement


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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-13-2007, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
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Ok as far as the seal on the heads goes, the motor has 158k mi on her. So it sounds like heads need to be replaced definitly. What about the pistons, cranks, etc.? Do they need to forged to with stand the PSI increase? Transmission I am having rebuilt as we speak, but what about the rear diff.? Does it need to be regeared (for lak of a better word)or can i just have it rebuilt? One more question what is the PSI on these superchargers?
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 05:20 AM
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well first of all you may want to pull the heads and swap in the 96+F5 npi heads. They are a direct bolt on and don't have the issues the early heads had ( bad seals and smaller ports). Then while your in there you can check out the pistons and cylinder walls. New head gaskets will be good insurance.

Now as far as the bottom end the crank is strong yet the pistons and rods will break under detonation. Thats why a very good tune can keep even a high milage motor in one piece. You want to keep the boost at the 6 psi max limit to be safe. Even at this level with a forged piston you are always playing a risky game. There is a guy running 15psi on a stock npi motor and hasnt had a problem for years. However his is a turbocharged setup which is a little different. A majority of blown mod motors are in the tune, fuel issues, etc...

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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 08:13 AM
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once you pull the heads.. new headgaskets are NECESSITY.. ford didn't put reusables on

Rob is pushing 8 PSI on stock PI rotating assembly without problems.. if the tune is good, there shouldn't be any problems. there are ways of seeing if the cylinder walls have wear, meaning bad rings, you can check the main bearings, etc. think about the cost of a forged bottom end, let alone the weight.. if you go forged, you have to have the whole thing balanced and replacement parts are that much more.

the SVO and the AED both come with a 6psi pulley. "overdrive" pulleys are available aftermarket to kick it up a notch

as far as the rear diff.. an open diffy with a blower = no tire on the right rear side.. catch my drift? high gears with short tires results in same issue.... $3000 a year in tires


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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 08:38 AM
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James is right with a good tune you should be OK on a stock rotating assembly but it's not a gaurantee. I did the explorer swap then put a SVO blower on when the motor had 30K. I daily drove it for 90K with the blower on the stock motor and then sold it to 95xbird who just drove it back to NY from GA so the right combination and tune on a stock motor can be plenty reliable

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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-15-2007, 12:28 AM Thread Starter
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Alright so i need heads FOR SURE. Now I know the Allen will fit under the stock hood, what about the SVO blower, will it fit? What is the best way to get these heads. Should I go to PICK-A-PART or should I get them new. And can you guys give me ballpark range on price and power increase?
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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-15-2007, 03:00 PM
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Yes the SVO will fit under a stock hood. You will need to notch the cross brack just above the alternator

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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-15-2007, 08:23 PM Thread Starter
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now which blower is going to to give me more PSI.
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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-15-2007, 08:27 PM
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now which blower is going to to give me more PSI.
Probley the Allen,Or a Vortech.

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

Its slow, Really.
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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-16-2007, 05:21 AM
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the allen is a eaton roots type of blower it will produce boost at very low revs vs a vortec or any other centrifigual blower which will take about 3000 or so until it starts building boost. You need to do a lot of research. The allen would prob be best for a daily driver.

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Last edited by twin turbo 281; 11-16-2007 at 05:26 AM.
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-16-2007, 09:03 AM
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You have to quit thinking about power and pressure being related.....it's all about airflow. PSI is caused by restriction so if you have a restrictive exhaust or heads etc you are going to see a higher PSI than someone who has worked their heads and exhaust but you won't have more power. Also realize if you are planning on putting an SC on a stock block anything above 6-7 psi is playing with fire. IMHO

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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-16-2007, 06:06 PM
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I am pretty sure Vortechs make boost around2k rpm's????I may be wrong but a change in your stall speed is an easy solution for the hardley noticable lag time.

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

Its slow, Really.
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-17-2007, 11:58 AM Thread Starter
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Well of course, no affence, but thats a give. I already have headers and a complete exhaust. I also know it is a stock block and I an risking it, or at least now I do. I do have one more question, I want to get the Allen 9 PSI kit, is it a nesscity to but forged pistons and cranks?

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You have to quit thinking about power and pressure being related.....it's all about airflow. PSI is caused by restriction so if you have a restrictive exhaust or heads etc you are going to see a higher PSI than someone who has worked their heads and exhaust but you won't have more power. Also realize if you are planning on putting an SC on a stock block anything above 6-7 psi is playing with fire. IMHO
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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-17-2007, 05:35 PM
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Its not necessity there are people running 15psi on a stock long block but its like playing with a can a gas and some matches. The 5-6 psi is a safer less risky range...9psi and on is pushing it and don't be surprised to have a rod snap in half. There are plenty on mod motors running 9psi on a stock long block however alot of these motors break and you find the piston(s) in many pieces in the pan.

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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-17-2007, 07:07 PM
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Like he said it's hit or miss and a lot depends on the tune. Atrain got a lot of mileage out of his 9 psi setup but then there have been people on this board who have busted a ringland on a stock NA motor

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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-17-2007, 08:15 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, well what should I do to the motor to hold up to the boost level? I know pistons and crank anything else?
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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-17-2007, 08:19 PM
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crank is not necessary unless you are gonna be in excess of 500hp. you don't need the extra rotational mass of a forged crank (sucks power). pistons and rods would be the big ones if you are really worried about it.


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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-18-2007, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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Alright I believe Im going to go with the Explorer 4.6L, but where should I get it from? Also what year of Explorer should I look at? Now a friend of mine was reccomending a 5.4L SOHC what is your a opinionon that? Should I look into an F-150 5.4L and throw a Kenne Bell on there? And how durible are the 5.4L's after supercharging her? Then way I see it the stock motor is probly just another hinderance in this build. Im going with a new motor so I dont risk causing damage not only to my car but to my famliy, myself and all who drive it.
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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-18-2007, 06:16 PM
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go to car-parts.com and search for 02+ explorer or mountaineer 4.6Ls. do not do the 5.4.. too much of a pain in the @$$.. exploder swap is much easier

mild supercharging on a stock motor is ok


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