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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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how does this setup sound (long)

I know everyone wants a cheap way to get boost, but at the same time there is so many superchargers to pick from. And ofcourse the biggest question is "roots or centrifugal" Well I have been looking at corral and modular depot and it looks like centrifugal blowers are going out for about $2000 brand new give or take. Just a little over a $1000 for used.

So after doing a lot of reading here is what I learned. Roots blower are extremely beneficial for a daily driver since your boost starts as soon as you hit the gas, but it dies at higher rpm.

Centrifugal blowers usually make boost at probably around 2500rpm and increase boost as rpm's increase.

If I could afford a KB I would buy it in a heart beat but that is not the case. So how does this setup sound for a daily driver that occasionally sees the track.

Vortech S-trim
3.73 gears and a 3500 stall verter.

This way I will have great get go from the line and the 3.73 will put me in the boost curve even faster.

So all you boost heads chime in and let me know what you think. Rember this should be cheap yet very effective for a daily driver.

1997 Birdie, its the good one. Limited Edition Sport Sold
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 08:59 PM
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That sounds good to me. One of my friends has a 3.8 new style monte carlo that he recently put a vortech on. Without a higher stall or gears I would say don't do it. It needs to rev up before he has any power. My SC will just roast them instantly, which I love. Since you can probably do that already with a 4.6 I say do the vortech.

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 08:59 PM
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everybody will have there own opinion but it comes down to personal prefrenace. A vortech is better for the track and a eaton is better for the street. I think that you stall is a little high I would go for a maruader torque converter which is a 2900 rpm stall converter. If you keep the boost reasonable it will be reliable. I would consider upgrading to a explorer motor. It might last since the vortech won't make the low down torque like a positive displacement blower will. It can make more hp up top though. I have the allen setup and love it.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 09:25 PM
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If you don't get a tripple disc lockup TC like the PI Stallion you'll experiance alot of slippage. I would say 3k-3500 sounds about right. When I do my next engine I'll have my PI Tripple disc raised up from 3k to 3500. I personaly wouldn't run the vortech (Or any other supercharger) setup without a forged shortblock though.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 10:05 PM
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I've owned them both. I just totally disagree with Steven, I'll take a centrifugal on the street anytime. I absolutely cannot do a kickdown to 1st gear in my Lightning without it blowing the tires off. Not an issue at the track with the slicks on it. I also wouldn't say the roots dies up top, either blower could quit making power up top if it was undersized, and I sort of feel that way about an M-90 on 4.6 liters, the M112 should do better.

To help illustrate, here's my Lightning, this roots blower doesn't quit up top.


And an old graph from when the Bird was blown, lots more manageable on street tires, at 4000rpm it is at 250hp, not 375 like the lightning is.



I think you'd be real happy with the parts you are talking about, and I certainly wouldn't run less stall than that.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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Eric I do agree that forced induction should not be used without a forged block, but with 6 pounds of boost I think the 4.6 should get away with it for a while. Thanks for chiming in KD . I have to say if it came down to both blowers same price I would love to get a M112, but life is not perfect. Again I just did this to see what would be the cheapest way to get boost. I probably wont be getting a supercharger any time soon since people like KD, Eric Z, and JL are running mad fast on all motor

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9/6/03-9/7/03-J mod & Mark VIII TC 12/26/03-Apten Chip & 03 GT MAF 3/11/04-3/14/04-PI Cams & PI Intake 8/19/04-FRPP 3.73 Diffy2/26/05-SCT chip (burned by Ken B.)

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-24-2004, 12:54 AM
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Hey the NA thing is fun. So many people said it couldn't be done. You can beat on the car all day without worrying about blowing it up either.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-24-2004, 04:17 PM
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I'm going Vortech on GB. The N/A route was fun, and I got in on some cool new things - Renegage's first generation PNP NPI's and some pretty radical custom ground Comp cams. I was anxious to see what the SVO intake would have added to that mix, but some 'cooler' heads prevailed and convinced me to build the bottom... I went about as far as I could go N/A with my stock bottom, I didn't want to risk putting a rod through Jim's heads, or the SVO intake, or my pretty new paint job, for that matter. Once I decided to build the bottom, I had to choose high compression for N/A or low compression for SC. As badly as I wanted to see 12's N/A, I went for the SC set up, and I guess we'll see how that all turns out.

The PI intake/cams option has opened up a whole new bunch of possibilities, especially for someone on a limited budget. I may be going SC, but I am watching the N/A guys real close, after all I do have a "spare" LX "laying around." I don't need another 'money pit,' but having a backup N/A budget racer would be fun... Probably wait 'til she's a bit higher mileage, and my check book cools down though...

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-24-2004, 07:26 PM
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To each his own but I totally AGREE with Steven. Especially with the AED setup. It was specifically engineered for the 4.6 Thunderbird. Three years and 30,000 hard daily driving miles and I've had ZERO problems. Several of my buddies also put on the AED and one has some 60,000 miles on his Tbird with only the electric water pump going out. I seldom drive over 80 miles and hour so top end is not important. In my opinion, For the non-tech mechanic like myself, the AED kit is money well spent. In fact, it was my mechanically inclined Nephew-in-Law, who is still big-time into Vortech and Camaro's, who recommened the roots kit to me.

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-24-2004, 07:30 PM
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you will love the vortech. Owning both a supercoupe 3.8 and a vorteched supercharged 3.8L the vorteched one is more fun. Mine starts making boost decent boost around 2500rpm (2-3psi) and climbs to 9psi @ 4700rpm. I can't wait to get the aftercooler finished, crank the boost a bit more, and get the 3200rpm converter installed.

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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-24-2004, 09:47 PM Thread Starter
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rancher are you running 9# on a stock block? Also are you going with the vortech aftercooler or fabricating your own. Last question, I talked to loopyJ22 and he said the vortech will require some sort of spacer to mount on our birds, what is your experience with this? Seems like the only thing different from the birds and the stang is the intake tube that goes to the vortech

1997 Birdie, its the good one. Limited Edition Sport Sold
9/6/03-9/7/03-J mod & Mark VIII TC 12/26/03-Apten Chip & 03 GT MAF 3/11/04-3/14/04-PI Cams & PI Intake 8/19/04-FRPP 3.73 Diffy2/26/05-SCT chip (burned by Ken B.)

1998 Z28 M6 5.7 LS1
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-24-2004, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ashish
rancher , what is your experience with this? Seems like the only thing different from the birds and the stang is the intake tube that goes to the vortech
I'm kinda curious how the blower set up on the 3.8 compares to the 4.6???

There may be a way to use the vortech aftercooler on the 3.8, I dunno, but I don't think the vortech aftercooler will fit on the 4.6 bird without some major cutting on the shock tower or somewhere. I suspect that if it was a good fit, lotsa guys running vortechs would have them. Mustangs have a ton more airspace around the engine than the MN12's do. That's why their headers and blower kits are not direct bolt ins on our cars.

Check BullittBird's post on his KB install to see what it took to make it work. Lot's of mix and match parts and fab work....

96 GoldBird

'96 T-Bird LX 4.6L Alive & well & living in S. Florida

N/A:
Renegade NPI heads/Comp Cams; OEM intake manifold; Bolt-ons
245 rwhp; 13.713 @ 99.35 (Commerce, GA - November 2003)


BLOWN: Renegade NPI heads; Renegade shortblock; Intercooled T-Trim; some other stuff
Pump Gas Numbers - 547 rwhp / 525 ft.lbs; Best Time - 11.388 @ 118.68 (Commerce, GA - November 2007)
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